Author Topic: 35 year old bolt removal? (Read 4359 times)

550Z · « **on:** July 07, 2012, 03:07:42 PM »

Im trying to get these 10 philip screws off my 550 so i can service my clutch and shift spring but they havent moved for 35 years so whats the best way too remove them without stripping them?

CrankyOldGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:17:41 PM »

I always have found an impact driver works. I have successfully removed bolts from my 750 which have not been off for 35 years or so.

Harry O.

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:19:34 PM »

Liberal use of penetrating oil (liquid wrench, PB blaster, etc). WD40 IMO isn't acceptable as it's more of a lubricant. Then some heat, followed by a quality impact wrench.

I had some issues with my clutch cover and had to dremel a slot in one, but I was just using elbow grease.

550Z · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:21:57 PM »

Ok cool i was worried because these screws are almost made of a soft metal and the previous owner tried too get them off and they are a little stripped....

brewsky · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:26:29 PM »

I use valve grinding compound to increase the friction of the driver tip.

Make sure you hsve a good quality driver or tip that fits snug.

Whack the driver in the screw first with a hammer.

I like the T handles best.

lucky · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:30:37 PM »

It is easy if you use the proper tool.

USE THE IMPACT DRIVER FROM THE VERY FIRST ATTEMPT .
NOT THE LAST ATTEMPT after the screw head is ruined.

FIRST take a small ball peen hammer and give each screw a couple taps.
This breaks the molecular bond going on.

Then using a #2 or #3 phillips bit in the impact driver (size is critical), Put the impact driver with PROPER fitting bit into the screw. Push on the impact driver while twisting slightly in the loosening direction on the screw and hit the driver with a good sized ball peen hammer.

Comes right loose.

FAILURE TO USE THE RIGHT SIZE BIT is 99% of the reason screws get stripped.
People too lazy to get the correct size bit.

There is NO SECRET !!

If you own a Japanese motorcycle you MUST own the impact driver.
HAND operated impact driver.

550Z · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:33:20 PM »

Do you think harbor freight tools has impact drivers?

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:36:19 PM »

You might want to have a look at this post and the accompanying thread.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20131.msg209311#msg209311

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:44:25 PM »

Don't use a HF impact driver/wrench. Every post I've read on here about them has been absolutely terrible.

IIRC the clutch cover screws are JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards)? You can tell if there's a dot on the head.

A regular phillips head is NOT the proper tool to use. I've used a #3 and it fits snugly, but some have reported that a drywall phillips works (source needed).

As a summary:
Penetrating fluid
Impact hammer/wrench !!FIRST!!, not as a last restort
Ensure the tool fits properly.

550Z · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:47:41 PM »

But would the acetone eat the protective coating on the engine? And all 10 screws have the dots on them... and they almost look like tiny crosses instead of dots..

DJ_AX · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:52:47 PM »

Impact driver is an amazing tool.
I got an HF one for about 8 bucks... busted and twisted the tips after a while. Bought some good tips

It didn't do damage to any of the screws. Although a few we're pretty bad already from the PO. It works great even on those.

550Z · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:56:48 PM »

Thats what i want to do i want to get a HF impact driver and get better tips like from Lowes or Home Depot..

Don R · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2012, 04:17:12 PM »

I find the screwdriver that fits best and use the next bigger one. I have a snap on bit on a sears 19.2Volt impact driver that pops em right out.

550Z · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2012, 04:24:55 PM »

Do you what replacement bolts i can get that are american made so that i dont have too go through this process again later in life?

Accolay · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2012, 04:39:53 PM »

Quote from: Dimitri13 on July 07, 2012, 03:44:25 PM

IIRC the clutch cover screws are JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards)? You can tell if there's a dot on the head.

A regular phillips head is NOT the proper tool to use. I've used a #3 and it fits snugly, but some have reported that a drywall phillips works (source needed).

As a follow up to this post, JIS impact bits are made, but I think the only set available anywhere is about $40 from Hozan:
http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hodsetofrebi.html

Or you could get the driver with bits for $117:
http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hodimsc.html

Fairly expensive IMHO, but if you're a tool guy you might like a set.

lucky · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2012, 05:26:51 PM »

Quote from: 550Z on July 07, 2012, 03:33:20 PM

Do you think harbor freight tools has impact drivers?

Yes they have them and make sure it comes with all the bits.

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2012, 05:44:55 PM »

Quote from: 550Z on July 07, 2012, 04:24:55 PM

Do you what replacement bolts i can get that are american made so that i dont have too go through this process again later in life?

The thread diameter and pitch should be the same as any metric one. It's just the head that's different. IIRC they're M6 with a standard (1.00) thread pitch. Just take one to a hardware store and get ten plus a few spares (best way to check is get a nut that screws all the way on the bolt you have then match it to a bolt from the drawer). Just make sure the heads are about the same size, as bigger heads may not fit.

550Z · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:10:12 PM »

Ok guys so i got the impact driver and i got all the bolts off the clutch case and motor oil starts pouring out of it WTF is going on and i cant get the case off do i have to remove the kickstart thing? And why is motor oil were the clutch is?

bollingball · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:28:18 PM »

750 has a wet clutch not sure about the 550 but I think it does also. Have you downloaded the factory manual. It is on this site free. Also some people change over to Allen head bolts. People sell kits with all the ones you need for the bike All different colors plus stainless.

Ken

dave500 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:44:17 PM »

they both have a #$%*ing wet clutch,,you should have drained the oil first,,yes the kick start thing has to come off,#$%*.

DJ_AX · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:46:33 PM »

Quote from: 550Z on July 07, 2012, 08:10:12 PM

... and motor oil starts pouring out of it WTF ...

ha ha ... part of learning

We've all had our share of mishaps.
now get proper info .. and follow the steps and understand..
... next time maybe try shortcuts

550Z · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:51:38 PM »

Ok i didnt know they had a wet clutch i was scared and thought i had a cracked block. I got the kickstart off and pulled the cover off... My clutch looks brand new and so does everything else inside. Now i need to get the spring for the shift lever back in place.. it looks like its not even touching anything.. which is probably the reason my shift lever gets stuck in the up position.

dave500 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2012, 09:04:23 PM »

youll have to pull the clutch off,heres what it looks like behind it,this is a 500 but for all intents and purposes this photo will do.

youll need a pair of external circlip pliers to remove the clutch basket.
once you undo the four bolts and pull the lifter plate out itll look like this,,theres the circlip you need to remove,this is a 550 assembly,note the difference in the little spring and the angle at the top off the shift action lever.

550Z · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2012, 09:16:36 PM »

Thanks ill take a look at it tomorrow morning since its to late over here.. And do u guys know whats the best online store to shop for CB550s?

dave500 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2012, 09:37:33 PM »

when you assemble the lifter plate you can use one of the case screws to manhandle the pressure plate back towards the lifter so you can start the bolts easier.

lucky · « **Reply #25 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:38:01 PM »

Quote from: 550Z on July 07, 2012, 08:10:12 PM

Ok guys so i got the impact driver and i got all the bolts off the clutch case and motor oil starts pouring out of it WTF is going on and i cant get the case off do i have to remove the kickstart thing? And why is motor oil were the clutch is?

Almost all Hondas have wet clutches. Where there is a clutch there is oil.

550Z · « **Reply #26 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:59:02 PM »

ok thanks guys

dave500 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 08, 2012, 12:48:29 AM »

umm lucky??show me a common dry clutch honda,or jap bike.

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2012, 01:04:20 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on July 08, 2012, 12:48:29 AM

umm lucky??show me a common dry clutch honda,or jap bike.

Not common, but it was a production bike with a dry clutch: Yamaha TZR250SP

dave500 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2012, 01:17:25 AM »

i could name any number of dry clutch bikes dimitri,,luckys,,,"almost all hondas have a wet clutch"post was my inspiration here.

dave500 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2012, 01:40:59 AM »

not to mention his contradiction "where there is a clutch there is oil"??

PeWe · « **Reply #31 on:** July 08, 2012, 02:49:26 AM »

I have tried an Impact driver too late or worried to use a (sledge) hammer heavy enough.
OK with a drilling machine and drill the head off or almost.Heads of screws off, possible to remove cover. Screws are now sticking out and removed with a pipe wrench.

Allen bolts ar way better and Torx even better when the tool will not slip as it can with Allen if used too eagerly....

550Z · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2012, 02:55:41 PM »

good news everyone i got the cover off and the clutch basket... i was able to acces the shift lever spring and found out it was on backwards so that it wasnt even touching anything.... I pulled the shaft out and flipped the spring and put it all back together

now the shift lever goes back to its spot when i shift:)

dave500 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2012, 11:37:06 PM »

well done.

550Z · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2012, 11:54:07 PM »

Thanks

Bailgang · « **Reply #35 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:50:12 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on July 07, 2012, 09:37:33 PM

when you assemble the lifter plate you can use one of the case screws to manhandle the pressure plate back towards the lifter so you can start the bolts easier.

The clutch lifter on a 550 doesn't come in from the back of the clutch basket like it does on a 500.

wardenerd · « **Reply #36 on:** July 09, 2012, 04:13:27 AM »

I used a hf driver and got all but two out. Those two I drilled out. I love that little plink sound the screw makes when it finally breaks loose. One big hit on the driver works best for me.

rboe · « **Reply #37 on:** July 09, 2012, 07:15:21 PM »

Back in the day when I worked at a Honda dealership we had the typical cheap impact wrench that came in a blue metal box and it did a fair job. I picked up an impact wrench from the Snap-On truck (tool crack on four wheels!). That puppy would unlock screws that the cheap one could not. It was impressive. I still have both to this day but only use the Snap-On unit. I've had to replace one phillips (number 2 tip I think) over the years.

dave500 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 09, 2012, 08:21:40 PM »

Quote from: Bailgang on July 09, 2012, 03:50:12 AM

Quote from: dave500 on July 07, 2012, 09:37:33 PM
when you assemble the lifter plate you can use one of the case screws to manhandle the pressure plate back towards the lifter so you can start the bolts easier.

The clutch lifter on a 550 doesn't come in from the back of the clutch basket like it does on a 500.

this is a 500 clutch.

this is a 550 clutch.

News:

Author Topic: 35 year old bolt removal? (Read 4359 times)

bollingball