Topic: mix and match tires

[c(b)hris]

so i need two new tires for a 74 CB750.
i've been offered a continental blitz tkh23 3.25x19 for the front for free.
but no one has available the tkh24 4.00x18 for the rear.
how do i know what tire is okay to mix with that front, knowing i will replace it next season.  just can't afford to immediately.
can i put a metzeler lasertec on the back with that blitz on the front?

thanks.

[Gurp]

Someone may smite me for this.... But i dont see why it would hurt unless you we pushing your bike to the tires limits. My 550 had a chin something on the front and a metzler on the back it rode fine. Although i never pushed it really hard in the twisties.

[HondaMan]

The vintage 3.25 tire profile is different in cross-section from the metric versions we see so much today. What this will do: as the bike rolls onto the side of the tire, it will change caster slightly positive, relative to the rear (if the rear is metric, that is...). So, as you lean into the turn deeper, the bike will feel like it is trying to right itself a little, so you will have to "hold" it down in a deep corner.

[c(b)hris]

So if i stay with a 4.00x18 i shouldn't experience this then?

should the tire i use look like a similar tread pattern to that blitz i can't find?

here's the blitz:


here's the lasertec:

[cavi]

I personally do not like the idea of mixing tires, two reasons, first is the tire design, in other words the curvature may be completly different so at a specific lean angle the front my handle dramatically different from the rear just based on the tire desing.  Second is the rubber compound, again you might have a real soft compound in front and a hard one in the rear, so the grip will not be what is correct front to rear.  I am probably not explaining this well, but think about it and you will figure out what I am saying.  Now if all you are doing is riding around town it might not make a difference to you, you might never feel the difference, but I mainly ride the twisties and I am constantly leaning in, and I want the weakest link to be my courage to lean not the amout of grip the bike has.  With tires it is always a compromise, longer life tire = less grip, better grip means the ties will not last as long.  you have to decide what type of riding you will do.  The first thing I did when I got my bike was swap the tires for the best grip I could find.  the ones that were on the bike had lots of tread, but they were mismatched and who knew how old they were.  tires get hard over time and do not perfom as good.  Back when I was taking my sportbike to the track the suspension guy would suggest swapping tires every year even if they were still good, he claimed that they lost like 20% of the grip after a year.

[Stev-o]

I never mix.   How old is the tire you are getting for free? Should have manufacture date on sidewall after "DOT".

[BAchvytrk]

I mix and match tires on my bikes all the time and have never had any problems. Alot of the people i change tires for mix and match also and i've never had any complaints. Just last night I mounted a 195/60-16 yokahma avid car tire on the back of a vtx1800 and a dunlop elite 3 up front for a friend of mine.  he was complaining to me about his expensive metzlers wearing out way too fast. my neighbor down the road has been running car tires on his vtx1800 for years now and gets over 20,000 miles on them. One might think it would handle funny, but i took it through some twisties after getting the tires broke in and had the peg to the ground no problem.  Bottom line, if you feel comfortable on your bike, there is no reason you can't mismatch tire brands and or tread patterns.

[HondaMan]

  With tires it is always a compromise, longer life tire = less grip, better grip means the ties will not last as long. 

The exception to this rule: Avon tyres, made in Britain. After many years of many, many different tires, on track and street, I have never found anything that can hold a candle to both their traction on all surfaces, and their life: the last ones I just swapped were 10 years old, had more than 1/2 of their tread depth left, and had well over 40k miles on them. I could (can) put the bike over to the pegs on wet roads with them, still.

I have no clue how the Brits have done this: I stumbled on it purely by accident about 20 years ago. Since the first set, I then tried Continentals, Dunlop (British, not the slippery Japanese versions), Bridgestone, Pirelli, Metzler, went back to Avon, was amazed again. Now I won't ride anything else.

[Dimitri13]

  With tires it is always a compromise, longer life tire = less grip, better grip means the ties will not last as long. 

The exception to this rule: Avon tyres, made in Britain. After many years of many, many different tires, on track and street, I have never found anything that can hold a candle to both their traction on all surfaces, and their life: the last ones I just swapped were 10 years old, had more than 1/2 of their tread depth left, and had well over 40k miles on them. I could (can) put the bike over to the pegs on wet roads with them, still.

What model do you recommend, HM? I don't normally pay attention to tire threads here, so all I really know is the Avon Roadriders that people sometimes mention.

[That 70s Bike]

  With tires it is always a compromise, longer life tire = less grip, better grip means the ties will not last as long. 

The exception to this rule: Avon tyres, made in Britain. After many years of many, many different tires, on track and street, I have never found anything that can hold a candle to both their traction on all surfaces, and their life: the last ones I just swapped were 10 years old, had more than 1/2 of their tread depth left, and had well over 40k miles on them. I could (can) put the bike over to the pegs on wet roads with them, still.

I have no clue how the Brits have done this: I stumbled on it purely by accident about 20 years ago. Since the first set, I then tried Continentals, Dunlop (British, not the slippery Japanese versions), Bridgestone, Pirelli, Metzler, went back to Avon, was amazed again. Now I won't ride anything else.

This is great news I'm a tire mix matcher but I wound up with Avon- Azzaro rear & Avon-Storm front on my metric cruiser... but I've never scraped the pegs

[That 70s Bike]

I mix and match tires on my bikes all the time and have never had any problems. Alot of the people i change tires for mix and match also and i've never had any complaints. Just last night I mounted a 195/60-16 yokahma avid car tire on the back of a vtx1800 and a dunlop elite 3 up front for a friend of mine.  he was complaining to me about his expensive metzlers wearing out way too fast. my neighbor down the road has been running car tires on his vtx1800 for years now and gets over 20,000 miles on them. One might think it would handle funny, but i took it through some twisties after getting the tires broke in and had the peg to the ground no problem.  Bottom line, if you feel comfortable on your bike, there is no reason you can't mismatch tire brands and or tread patterns.

I like this looks like myth busted

[HondaMan]

  With tires it is always a compromise, longer life tire = less grip, better grip means the ties will not last as long. 

The exception to this rule: Avon tyres, made in Britain. After many years of many, many different tires, on track and street, I have never found anything that can hold a candle to both their traction on all surfaces, and their life: the last ones I just swapped were 10 years old, had more than 1/2 of their tread depth left, and had well over 40k miles on them. I could (can) put the bike over to the pegs on wet roads with them, still.

What model do you recommend, HM? I don't normally pay attention to tire threads here, so all I really know is the Avon Roadriders that people sometimes mention.

For a matched pair in the Avons that match these SOHC4 chasses well, the AM26 family is my favorite. They come 2 ways: either the 3.25x19 front with the matching 4.00x18 rear pair, which has the old bias-ply cross-section, or the newer metric "rounder" version. The metrics should be 100/90x19 front for the 750/550/500, and 110/90x18 for the 750 rear, 100/90x18 for the mid-Fours. If you weigh over 200 lbs, or ride heavy touring a lot, the 750 can take the 120/90x18 rear, and the 500/550 the 110/90x18 rear.

Don't mix the metrics with the inch types: the cross-sections are different and the bike will understeer if metric rear, oversteer if metric front.

[camelman]

I agree on the Avons. Great tires with amazing grip, handling and wear characteristics.

Now, regarding mixing tire brands, I do it often. Road bicycles, mountain bikes, a few motorcycles and some four wheel vehicles. There can be handling differences, but I learn them in the first couple turns and commit them to memory. No harm no foul and you'll never notice the difference until you switch tires. Track riding will be different, but you wouldn't ask this question if you were riding on the track.

[Retro Rocket]

I mix and match tires on my bikes all the time and have never had any problems. Alot of the people i change tires for mix and match also and i've never had any complaints. Just last night I mounted a 195/60-16 yokahma avid car tire on the back of a vtx1800 and a dunlop elite 3 up front for a friend of mine.  he was complaining to me about his expensive metzlers wearing out way too fast. my neighbor down the road has been running car tires on his vtx1800 for years now and gets over 20,000 miles on them. One might think it would handle funny, but i took it through some twisties after getting the tires broke in and had the peg to the ground no problem.  Bottom line, if you feel comfortable on your bike, there is no reason you can't mismatch tire brands and or tread patterns.

That is bad advice mate, talk to anyone that knows anything about tires and their application and they will dismiss that as rubbish. There are a few good posts here already stating why its not a good idea. Tires are made as a matched set {most manufacturers have that documented on their sites} , good tires anyway, lots of guys here ride on tires i wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole {and they also think they are good}. I question your riding technique and abilities if you think a car tire made for a vehicle that runs on 4 wheels are weighs 10 times + what our bikes do, handles well, that is just plain old fashioned bullsh1t. Bottom line, follow manufacturers recommendations... {they do all the testing}

[cavi]

yes, a car tire is not designed to hit the ground like a motorcycle tire, the car tires are designed to have a flat contact patch while the motorcycles use a roundedtread area where a small portion is in contact at a given lean angle, never the whole tread area like a car.  if you fit a car tire, it might roll, but it will not work like the bike wants it to or like it was designed to.  that would be just plain stupid.  I could further that but i will hold myself.

[c(b)hris]

thanks for all the info everybody.

the free tire was new last season but i don't have it available to look at what's printed on it.

ima get the rear tire i really want and just ride around town when it's nice out til i'm sure the bike's solid.  when i have the cash i'll match the front.  i've got a 550 to leave town with in the meantime. 

i just wanted to make sure the bike wasn't going to track sideways or something crazy and be unridable if i mismatched the tires.

[c(b)hris]

one more question.

when trying to pick the tires i want, every size selection says "tubeless".
is there a special rating for tires to run a tube with them or something?  do you just get those and run a tube in them anyway?  spoked wheels = needs tubes right?

[cavi]

you can usually run a tube in a tubeless tire, but the other way around might not work as the tire needs to be designed to seal around the rim and usually the sidewalls are a bit firmer on tubeless tires

[Sniper X]

People will argue with me on this but here goes nothing!

I started riding these bikes when they were new. In 1970 or so and have ridden them and more modern bikes ever since. I have tried to stick with a matched set of tyres on only my BMWs and the race or high performance road bikes like my GSXRs and FZRRs and such. I can say that with years of riding and racing experience, one will NEVER notice a mixed set of tyres unless there is a bias radial mix on these old bikes we all love so much. ONLY a totally all out race machine will need matched tyres on the road and really if not pushed beyond same street limits, not then either. ANY modern tyre in the right size will be fine front and back. I even know a guy who uses a dual sport tyre on the back of his BMW R80 (street naked bike) and a street tyre on front and he rides it on the road FAST and off road fast.

[scrapvalue]

Mix away, just don't go road racing and don't mix a radial with a bias ply, you will feel like both ends are trying to go seperate ways.

Even with a perfect match set of tires, you will want to go out and ride easy for awhile to get use to them and make sure you put everything back together properly.

[Retro Rocket]

Profile, shape and compounds are also important, some tires have a "U" shape and some have a "V" shape, you wouldn't want a harder compound or a tire that sheds less water on the front either, there are plenty of good reasons you shouldn't really mix and match tires...

[BAchvytrk]

I mix and match tires on my bikes all the time and have never had any problems. Alot of the people i change tires for mix and match also and i've never had any complaints. Just last night I mounted a 195/60-16 yokahma avid car tire on the back of a vtx1800 and a dunlop elite 3 up front for a friend of mine.  he was complaining to me about his expensive metzlers wearing out way too fast. my neighbor down the road has been running car tires on his vtx1800 for years now and gets over 20,000 miles on them. One might think it would handle funny, but i took it through some twisties after getting the tires broke in and had the peg to the ground no problem.  Bottom line, if you feel comfortable on your bike, there is no reason you can't mismatch tire brands and or tread patterns.

That is bad advice mate, talk to anyone that knows anything about tires and their application and they will dismiss that as rubbish. There are a few good posts here already stating why its not a good idea. Tires are made as a matched set {most manufacturers have that documented on their sites} , good tires anyway, lots of guys here ride on tires i wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole {and they also think they are good}. I question your riding technique and abilities if you think a car tire made for a vehicle that runs on 4 wheels are weighs 10 times + what our bikes do, handles well, that is just plain old fashioned bullsh1t. Bottom line, follow manufacturers recommendations... {they do all the testing}

I understand that putting a car tire on the rear is a little overkill and would never recommend that for a old cb750 like the op has.  My point was that if my neighbor down the road who has over 40,000 proven miles running a car tire on his vtx1800 with no issues or handling concerns, then the OP should not be worried about running two different brand tires.  You can question my technique and ability all you want, doesn't bother me a bit. my friend that i just put the car tire on for on tuesday called me today, he had the day off and put 400 miles on through the southern tier roads and he loves it, says it rides great, better than the matched set of metzler me880's he had on it. thats what matters to me

[oldbob]

The CB400F I bought should have a 3.50x18 and a 3.00x18. The PO mounted larger metric sizes. Would the correct sizes (assuming that I can find them) change anything?

Thanks.

Bob

[Retro Rocket]

I mix and match tires on my bikes all the time and have never had any problems. Alot of the people i change tires for mix and match also and i've never had any complaints. Just last night I mounted a 195/60-16 yokahma avid car tire on the back of a vtx1800 and a dunlop elite 3 up front for a friend of mine.  he was complaining to me about his expensive metzlers wearing out way too fast. my neighbor down the road has been running car tires on his vtx1800 for years now and gets over 20,000 miles on them. One might think it would handle funny, but i took it through some twisties after getting the tires broke in and had the peg to the ground no problem.  Bottom line, if you feel comfortable on your bike, there is no reason you can't mismatch tire brands and or tread patterns.

That is bad advice mate, talk to anyone that knows anything about tires and their application and they will dismiss that as rubbish. There are a few good posts here already stating why its not a good idea. Tires are made as a matched set {most manufacturers have that documented on their sites} , good tires anyway, lots of guys here ride on tires i wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole {and they also think they are good}. I question your riding technique and abilities if you think a car tire made for a vehicle that runs on 4 wheels are weighs 10 times + what our bikes do, handles well, that is just plain old fashioned bullsh1t. Bottom line, follow manufacturers recommendations... {they do all the testing}

I understand that putting a car tire on the rear is a little overkill and would never recommend that for a old cb750 like the op has.  My point was that if my neighbor down the road who has over 40,000 proven miles running a car tire on his vtx1800 with no issues or handling concerns, then the OP should not be worried about running two different brand tires.  You can question my technique and ability all you want, doesn't bother me a bit. my friend that i just put the car tire on for on tuesday called me today, he had the day off and put 400 miles on through the southern tier roads and he loves it, says it rides great, better than the matched set of metzler me880's he had on it. thats what matters to me

And thats my point, i wouldn't put an ounce of credibility into someone who i have absolutely any idea of what he rides like and may not have a clue, watch out for insurance companies when doing a claim, over here, having incorrect tires, especially a car tire can completely void insurance.  I also wouldn't be comparing a 700 pound land barge to a Honda 4, two completely different animals. I still think your mate is full of it, there's no way in hell that a car tire on the rear will handle better than a bike tire, no way at all, a simple understanding of motorcycle dynamics would tell you that the tire is going to require more effort to "lift" it onto its side in corners, i suspect you friend is quite a "sight seer" and not a fan of corners, i suspect it is more stable in a straight line only....

[BAchvytrk]

 i suspect you friend is quite a "sight seer" and not a fan of corners, i suspect it is more stable in a straight line only....



hey retro, why do you have to make this stuff personal? calling out my technique, calling someone you've never known a "sight seer". If i had the time, i'd show you a pic of the shredded 880 that came off the bike, this guy is def not afraid of the corners. but that probably wouldn't make a difference to you.   do us all a favor, state useable facts in your replies and stop the personal attacks

[Retro Rocket]

i suspect you friend is quite a "sight seer" and not a fan of corners, i suspect it is more stable in a straight line only....



hey retro, why do you have to make this stuff personal? calling out my technique, calling someone you've never known a "sight seer". If i had the time, i'd show you a pic of the shredded 880 that came off the bike, this guy is def not afraid of the corners. but that probably wouldn't make a difference to you.   do us all a favor, state useable facts in your replies and stop the personal attacks

Sounds like you need a spoon full of concrete dude, that wasn't an insult till you made it one, i also said "your friend" unless you are schizophrenic, it wasn't directed at you.  Usable facts, thats funny, thats exactly why i called you out in the first place. If you choose to take things i said personally then thats your problem mate.... Go read about the difference between car tires and bike tires, i already know...

[BAchvytrk]

i suspect you friend is quite a "sight seer" and not a fan of corners, i suspect it is more stable in a straight line only....



hey retro, why do you have to make this stuff personal? calling out my technique, calling someone you've never known a "sight seer". If i had the time, i'd show you a pic of the shredded 880 that came off the bike, this guy is def not afraid of the corners. but that probably wouldn't make a difference to you.   do us all a favor, state useable facts in your replies and stop the personal attacks

Sounds like you need a spoon full of concrete dude, that wasn't an insult till you made it one, i also said "your friend" unless you are schizophrenic, it wasn't directed at you.  Usable facts, thats funny, thats exactly why i called you out in the first place. If you choose to take things i said personally then thats your problem mate.... Go read about the difference between car tires and bike tires, i already know...

your a funny dude retro, if you weren't all the way across the pond, i'd buy ya a beer sometime

[Gurp]

Ship one over! Lmao

[Retro Rocket]

i suspect you friend is quite a "sight seer" and not a fan of corners, i suspect it is more stable in a straight line only....



hey retro, why do you have to make this stuff personal? calling out my technique, calling someone you've never known a "sight seer". If i had the time, i'd show you a pic of the shredded 880 that came off the bike, this guy is def not afraid of the corners. but that probably wouldn't make a difference to you.   do us all a favor, state useable facts in your replies and stop the personal attacks

Sounds like you need a spoon full of concrete dude, that wasn't an insult till you made it one, i also said "your friend" unless you are schizophrenic, it wasn't directed at you.  Usable facts, thats funny, thats exactly why i called you out in the first place. If you choose to take things i said personally then thats your problem mate.... Go read about the difference between car tires and bike tires, i already know...

your a funny dude retro, if you weren't all the way across the pond, i'd buy ya a beer sometime

I wasn't trying to insult you, i like beer....