Topic: Does she sit too low?

[70CB750]

This is one of the possible combination of forks I have.  I am trying to end up with dual disc brake.  This is about 2.5" lower compare to original.

Loosing trail, did not ride her like this yet.   What do you think?  She feels definitely low in front and I am not thrilled about the look either, just testing what works and what does not.

[kerryb]

As with all modifications from stock, you must be willing to compromise.  What will it be today...looks, performance, or cost?

[LesterPiglet]

Front wheel looks much too close to the headers imho.

[70CB750]

Comfort for sure, she is a #$%* to get on center stand now. I think I will take her all the way and ride her like this for a while just to get the feel of the change.

[Gordon]

I think you're going to notice a big difference in steering.  The wheel is going to want to fall into turns more readily and it will feel much more twitchy. 

[754]

 Not sure what you did but you may be able to switch fork tubes or trees .
 If you do run that low use heavy fork oil, better reaction times, less wheelies, less(chance of ) bottoming..

[Xnavylfr]

Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[70CB750]

Thank you.  I think I will have to get longer tubes eventually, probably from cyclex, this is just one of the stages I am going through to find what works for me.

Will definitelly use heavy oil.


As far as trail, I will measure it just to know.

[70CB750]

I think I will swap it for those super long forks and let them stick out on the top - rudiculous look of course, but I will be able to tune it and feel the difference.

[jamesb]

looks real good but then this is comming from a guy who has a lowrider with hydraulics and another car that is getting ready to get slammed in the weeds.

[Really?]

Kinda hard for me to see what you did. I am on an iPhone.

I have shorter tubes and slid up the trees. I have 15wt fork oil in them. I have not bottomed on the headers.

I did not want to do dual disk because I am figuring that will just increase the fork compression in a panic stop.

Doubt it helps you any but thought I would add my two cents.

[lucky]

Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

How could you tell it has too much negative trail from a poor quality photo???
Ridiculous.

[lucky]

Here is what you need to do.

First you should read about rake and trail. Many websites. FREE.

One of the most important pieces of information you did not even give us. When you changed forks was it just the fork tubes or did it include the triple trees?

You need to know if you changed the amount of offset in the triple trees.
You can do a simple measurement to find out how much trail you have. Then you can compare it to the amount that it had stock. Just do not go below that number.
You won't go wrong with 4.5 inches of trail.

Next have someone help you and push the front end of your bike down and make sure the front wheel does not contact the headers. Or you can use tie down trailer straps to pull the front end down a little at a time.

You can safely move the fork tubes up in the stock triple clamps ONE INCH.

[Really?]

Strapped down in the back of this truck, it never touched the headers.

[lucky]

Strapped down in the back of this truck, it never touched the headers.

But what about if it was tightened down all the way?
Just get a friend to help you slowly push it down all the way.

[Retro Rocket]

Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

How could you tell it has too much negative trail from a poor quality photo???
Ridiculous.

Any negative trail is bad,Any trail under about 3 3/4 - 3 1/2inches is not what you would want, 4 inches is a good number for a reasonably stable ride, its also relative to rake... that blue bike will not have negative trail, just a little less than stock, which i don't recommend as it makes the steering more prone to "do what it likes" like falling into corners and tank slappers. If you must lower the front make sure you

Here is what you need to do.

First you should read about rake and trail. Many websites. FREE.

One of the most important pieces of information you did not even give us. When you changed forks was it just the fork tubes or did it include the triple trees?

You need to know if you changed the amount of offset in the triple trees.
You can do a simple measurement to find out how much trail you have. Then you can compare it to the amount that it had stock. Just do not go below that number.
You won't go wrong with 4.5 inches of trail.

Next have someone help you and push the front end of your bike down and make sure the front wheel does not contact the headers. Or you can use tie down trailer straps to pull the front end down a little at a time.

You can safely move the fork tubes up in the stock triple clamps ONE INCH.

lower the rear about the same amount as "really" has done....

Lucky, the K model 750's, depending on which K have a fraction under 4 inches of trail to just over 4 inches for the F {i think later K models have more trail but not 4.5 inches..., 4.5 inches is getting into slow steering territory. Looks like he used the stock triple clamps so offset won't change, 60mm is stock for a K model although 50mm will work as well a little better by adding a small amount of trail. Less offset means more trail and visa versa.   Its all a compromise, a lot of research goes into getting rake and trail good on any bike, swingarm pivot position , swingarm length and tire and wheel sizes  all factor into the equation as well....   Have a headache yet....

[lucky]

Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

How could you tell it has too much negative trail from a poor quality photo???
Ridiculous.

Any negative trail is bad,Any trail under about 3 3/4 - 3 1/2inches is not what you would want, 4 inches is a good number for a reasonably stable ride, its also relative to rake... that blue bike will not have negative trail, just a little less than stock, which i don't recommend as it makes the steering more prone to "do what it likes" like falling into corners and tank slappers. If you must lower the front make sure you

Here is what you need to do.

First you should read about rake and trail. Many websites. FREE.

One of the most important pieces of information you did not even give us. When you changed forks was it just the fork tubes or did it include the triple trees?

You need to know if you changed the amount of offset in the triple trees.
You can do a simple measurement to find out how much trail you have. Then you can compare it to the amount that it had stock. Just do not go below that number.
You won't go wrong with 4.5 inches of trail.

Next have someone help you and push the front end of your bike down and make sure the front wheel does not contact the headers. Or you can use tie down trailer straps to pull the front end down a little at a time.

You can safely move the fork tubes up in the stock triple clamps ONE INCH.

lower the rear about the same amount as "really" has done....

Lucky, the K model 750's, depending on which K have a fraction under 4 inches of trail to just over 4 inches for the F {i think later K models have more trail but not 4.5 inches..., 4.5 inches is getting into slow steering territory. Looks like he used the stock triple clamps so offset won't change, 60mm is stock for a K model although 50mm will work as well a little better by adding a small amount of trail. Less offset means more trail and visa versa.   Its all a compromise, a lot of research goes into getting rake and trail good on any bike, swingarm pivot position , swingarm length and tire and wheel sizes  all factor into the equation as well....   Have a headache yet....

Yes.... I agree Retro Rocket.
I was wanting him to actually measure his trail so he would fully
understand what he has etc.,.

I have built choppers from scratch with 42º rake and 4.5 inches trail.
That is slow handling. But you can adjust.
You just have to know the limitations of your machine.

[killersoundz]

Is dropping the forks 1" lower from stock in the front going to be that big of a deal do you guys think? I did it to my bike. Just pushed them up through the triple trees. Haven't ridden it like that yet.

[70CB750]

Isn't the stock height different for (almost) every year?  At least replacement fork tubes @ cyclex suggest it.

[Stev-o]

I'd rather have the correct front end and a single disc.

Is it really worth it?

[70CB750]

The process? Definitelly! Lots of quality wrenching time  

I measured the trail and it is still around 4". Hondaman's book gives the original trail @ 3.75".

I want to get it on the road and feel it. After that I will most likely take the super long fork tubes to a shop and have them cut and threaded to the length of the original K0 forks.

What is puzzling is the trail. I measured it several times but it is safely over 4".

[70CB750]

Over hundred miles on the setup. She definitely likes to turn more than before, feels good and stable up to 70. Didnt run her faster yet.

[lucky]

If you lower the back 1 inch and you lower the front one inch the trail should be the same but the wheelbase will be just a little shorter.

For instance....

I used to race dirt track motorcycles.
When we went to 1/2 mile tracks I would have my front forks positioned all the way to the top of the triple clamps. Then when we would race on the 1/4 mile shorter tighter race track I would lower the front in the triple clamps and it would steer around the tighter 1/4 mile oval much better.
Some choppers have as much as 49º of rake and 6 inches of trail.
The Harley Davidson V rod had 36º of rake like the Suzuki 1400 v twin.
Some street bikes (sport bikes) have as little as 24º rake and they have to have steering dampers.

The main concern is not having enough trail and getting into a tank slapper.
You do not want to have that happen.
So learn to measure how much trail you have.

Check out the specifications of other motorcycles and find out what works.
There is no one particular right way.

Also the weight distribution of the engine placement is just as important as how much offset you may have in the triple trees.
Just check all of those items.

Many springer forks like DNA's have NO offset in the triple trees.

[lucky]

Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

How could you tell it has too much negative trail from a poor quality photo???
Ridiculous.

Any negative trail is bad,Any trail under about 3 3/4 - 3 1/2inches is not what you would want, 4 inches is a good number for a reasonably stable ride, its also relative to rake... that blue bike will not have negative trail, just a little less than stock, which i don't recommend as it makes the steering more prone to "do what it likes" like falling into corners and tank slappers. If you must lower the front make sure you

Here is what you need to do.

First you should read about rake and trail. Many websites. FREE.

One of the most important pieces of information you did not even give us. When you changed forks was it just the fork tubes or did it include the triple trees?

You need to know if you changed the amount of offset in the triple trees.
You can do a simple measurement to find out how much trail you have. Then you can compare it to the amount that it had stock. Just do not go below that number.
You won't go wrong with 4.5 inches of trail.

Next have someone help you and push the front end of your bike down and make sure the front wheel does not contact the headers. Or you can use tie down trailer straps to pull the front end down a little at a time.

You can safely move the fork tubes up in the stock triple clamps ONE INCH.

lower the rear about the same amount as "really" has done....

Lucky, the K model 750's, depending on which K have a fraction under 4 inches of trail to just over 4 inches for the F {i think later K models have more trail but not 4.5 inches..., 4.5 inches is getting into slow steering territory. Looks like he used the stock triple clamps so offset won't change, 60mm is stock for a K model although 50mm will work as well a little better by adding a small amount of trail. Less offset means more trail and visa versa.   Its all a compromise, a lot of research goes into getting rake and trail good on any bike, swingarm pivot position , swingarm length and tire and wheel sizes  all factor into the equation as well....   Have a headache yet....

Hey Retro ...Remember when they started making childrens tricycles with a raked out front ends so children were not high siding over the handlebars?
Much safer. Then the kids started sliding them all around. LOL..lol

Those plastic molded bodes sure were noisy though. Woke me up every saturday morning!!!

[Retro Rocket]

I think one was called the "Green Machine"...     I remember them well....

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=green+machine+3+wheeled+trike&um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=659&tbm=isch&tbnid=f-JqTV5ZkinY3M:&imgrefurl=http://wisconsin.inetgiant.com/milwaukee/addetails/green-machine-big-wheel-new-berlin-50/12718517&docid=UMRMa_65HMr_3M&imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nOqiUok1Mak/TUyevBUK1gI/AAAAAAAADHs/KwPh6-eJ-jI/s1600/greenmachine.jpg&w=1089&h=714&ei=SyUPUP7lNuuJmQXMpIG4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=379&vpy=161&dur=6716&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=132&ty=116&sig=103872632599522202058&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=193&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73