Author Topic: Does she sit too low?  (Read 7309 times)

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »
Now I am picking little unstabillity when braking with rear brake only.  Probably the dive from the brake decreases the trail even more and the front gets wobbly.  Nothing critical, just a feeling.
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Offline Really?

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2012, 09:26:30 PM »
Swing arm tight?  No side-to-side movement when up on the center stand?
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

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The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline killersoundz

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2012, 09:48:53 PM »
Now I am picking little unstabillity when braking with rear brake only.  Probably the dive from the brake decreases the trail even more and the front gets wobbly.  Nothing critical, just a feeling.

Yup it's a trail issue 100%. From your original pics I estimate you to have MAYBE 2" of trail with that setup. Slamming the brakes and compressing the forks you might be going into negative trail at some point. Not good
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107447.0

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2012, 05:57:34 AM »
I am going for longer forks as soon as I have funds for new tubes.

Did I mention she is a #$%* to put on center stand?
Prokop
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Offline Really?

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2012, 07:23:27 AM »

Did I mention she is a #$%* to put on center stand?

No need to.  Hah!
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2012, 06:46:53 PM »
Chop it!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline lucky

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2012, 07:03:28 PM »
Looks to me you are VERY close to negative trail. If you are and ride it that way ,it could be a KILLER.. Be very carefull because NEG trail cause a bad wobble.


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)


How can you possibly see the trail from an internet photo?
You would have to measure it.
The amount of trail will not be changed very much at all.
I have never heard anyone on this forum measure stock trail then move the fork tubes up
1 inch in the trees and then measure the trail again and tell us the difference.


When I was racing we would lower the fork tubes in the trees for shorter tracks and it helped a lot.


Even it it was 1/4 inch less it would not enter the danger zone.

Offline lucky

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2012, 07:06:13 PM »
Front wheel looks much too close to the headers imho.

That should get checked, so that the front wheel does not get stopped while in motion. Very important.
Just put the front brake on and push down on the handlebars and have a friend help you
see if the front tire is going to touch those headers.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2012, 05:14:57 AM »
Done it and there is enough space between the wheel and the headers. Even fit a fender in there.
Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


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2006 KLR650

Offline lucky

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2012, 07:17:26 AM »
Now I am picking little unstabillity when braking with rear brake only.  Probably the dive from the brake decreases the trail even more and the front gets wobbly.  Nothing critical, just a feeling.

Yup it's a trail issue 100%. From your original pics I estimate you to have MAYBE 2" of trail with that setup. Slamming the brakes and compressing the forks you might be going into negative trail at some point. Not good


How can you possibly visually measure the trail from a very poor internet photo???

Why doesn't he just make the measurement and find out the real answer?

Offline lucky

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2012, 07:24:30 AM »
I am going for longer forks as soon as I have funds for new tubes.

Did I mention she is a #$%* to put on center stand?

There is a method to put the bike on the center stand.

Standing on the left side of the bike, put your left hand on the left end of the handlebars.
Put your right foot on the center stand. Put your right hand under the grab bar and lift the bike at the
 SAME time you press your weight down on the center stand.

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2012, 07:30:44 AM »
I rode my Honda around for a few weeks with the forks shoved into the trees a bit over 3".

It was fine.

Offline Really?

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2012, 08:00:38 AM »
She rides fine at this height.  Just sometimes in small towns with curbs on driveways and old pointy driveways kinda scrape the pipe.  A 4-2-1 would help but I think it would take away from the look.

Ignore the guy (me) in the pic.




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I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline JamesM

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2012, 05:15:42 PM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.
Current Stable:

1972 CB750
1973 Shovel
1978 CB750
1977 KZ750T
1996 Shadow VLX

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2012, 06:36:58 PM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

I support this.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 01:12:05 AM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

I support this.
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

Handling includes going around corners guys..... :o
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline JamesM

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2012, 10:31:31 AM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

I support this.
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

Handling includes going around corners guys..... :o

So quick to talk down on everything.

Have you owned or ridden a very low bike? If not, you have no rhyme or reason to chime in.

I can lay my CB over pretty far in turns without scraping pegs or pipes while outrunning friends through twisties. It actually handles better than it did stock in my opinion.

Current Stable:

1972 CB750
1973 Shovel
1978 CB750
1977 KZ750T
1996 Shadow VLX

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2012, 09:50:24 PM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

I support this.
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

Handling includes going around corners guys..... :o

So quick to talk down on everything.

Have you owned or ridden a very low bike? If not, you have no rhyme or reason to chime in.

I can lay my CB over pretty far in turns without scraping pegs or pipes while outrunning friends through twisties. It actually handles better than it did stock in my opinion.

It actually scares me to read responses like that, apart from being defensive, its not very good advice to anyone wanting decent information on a "good" handling bike,  i couldn't ride a bike that low, I have trouble with ground clearance on a stock height 750, scraping the pegs {folding them up and scraping the bracket}, i always remove the center stand , my mate Harry used to scrape the alternator case on his 750, so why the hell would i want to lower one, i like to ride it the way it was intended to be ridden.  I had a friend that had a 750 chopper and i rode it regularly, i completely ruined his pipes trying to get it round corners at less that normal cornering angles and it was down right dangerous, it did look good but handled like crap.. I wasn't talking you down mate, just throwing some reality into the conversation, Remember, you think your bike can blow guys off in the twisties being that low, my experience tells me that thats not possible unless your friends are really slow and less than average riders.
....  I grew up with guys that raced bikes and rode them properly, all bikes have their place, but to say a bike like the 750 with 4 inches of suspension height removed handles "well" is incorrect, It may ride nice in a straight line but you seriously compromise cornering clearance and the bikes ability to take defensive action severely.  I'm not telling you to raise it back up mate, just pointing out that you are making it "worse" not " better than stock" or its intentional design, thats why i said what i said, there's no disputing that..

Quote
Have you owned or ridden a very low bike? If not, you have no rhyme or reason to chime in.

Yes, and i have owned over 30 different road bikes {closer to 40} from 750 Honda's {lots of them}  to GSXR 1100's and almost everything in between, that doesn't include dirt bikes and converted race bikes., never had a car license till i was 40, just bikes... I am fanatical about good handling bikes because i still like to ride hard when and where i can, i spend a lot on quality suspension parts and tires and for good reason.
Just refuting your "handling" statement James, i don't question your choices, thats entirely up to you, i know what a good handling bike is set up like and unless its a racing sidecar outfit, taking 4 inches out of the suspension of a road bike is going backwards in the handling department. Don't look to be offended by my replies, no offense intended...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline killersoundz

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2012, 11:37:15 PM »
I wanted to point out that higher bikes actually handle corners better. The higher the bike the less the bike has to lean in a turn. It's common for racing bikes to be jacked up a few inches.

I can tell trail from side pictures all day long. Just draw a line from the neck to the ground and the axle down.

My project thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107447.0

My CB750K4 Starting up for the first time after a seized motor and rebuild!


Offline Stev-o

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2012, 06:19:28 AM »
OP - I don't understand why you lowered it? Seems like you've had issues since?

Really? has lowered his so his wife can reach the ground when she rides it. The last time we rode together, he seemed to not want to push it in the twisties.

Really? - How has the handling changed since you lowered yours? It looks great, but seems that you have paid a price?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline dhall57

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2012, 06:48:45 AM »
Really that low profile looks bad to the bone. And 16" rear adds to it. PO's of both my 750's put 16" rears on them, just a common practice back in the day, but I have not lowered them still at stock height.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 06:50:49 AM by dhall57 »
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Offline JamesM

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2012, 08:14:46 AM »
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

I support this.
My CB is lowered 4 1/2" in the front (3" of spring removed, 1 1/2" pulled through the trees) and about 2 and a half in the back, it rides and handles great. I'm making a hardtail for it here soon that will drop the back another two inches.

Handling includes going around corners guys..... :o

So quick to talk down on everything.

Have you owned or ridden a very low bike? If not, you have no rhyme or reason to chime in.

I can lay my CB over pretty far in turns without scraping pegs or pipes while outrunning friends through twisties. It actually handles better than it did stock in my opinion.

It actually scares me to read responses like that, apart from being defensive, its not very good advice to anyone wanting decent information on a "good" handling bike,  i couldn't ride a bike that low, I have trouble with ground clearance on a stock height 750, scraping the pegs {folding them up and scraping the bracket}, i always remove the center stand , my mate Harry used to scrape the alternator case on his 750, so why the hell would i want to lower one, i like to ride it the way it was intended to be ridden.  I had a friend that had a 750 chopper and i rode it regularly, i completely ruined his pipes trying to get it round corners at less that normal cornering angles and it was down right dangerous, it did look good but handled like crap.. I wasn't talking you down mate, just throwing some reality into the conversation, Remember, you think your bike can blow guys off in the twisties being that low, my experience tells me that thats not possible unless your friends are really slow and less than average riders.
....  I grew up with guys that raced bikes and rode them properly, all bikes have their place, but to say a bike like the 750 with 4 inches of suspension height removed handles "well" is incorrect, It may ride nice in a straight line but you seriously compromise cornering clearance and the bikes ability to take defensive action severely.  I'm not telling you to raise it back up mate, just pointing out that you are making it "worse" not " better than stock" or its intentional design, thats why i said what i said, there's no disputing that..

Quote
Have you owned or ridden a very low bike? If not, you have no rhyme or reason to chime in.

Yes, and i have owned over 30 different road bikes {closer to 40} from 750 Honda's {lots of them}  to GSXR 1100's and almost everything in between, that doesn't include dirt bikes and converted race bikes., never had a car license till i was 40, just bikes... I am fanatical about good handling bikes because i still like to ride hard when and where i can, i spend a lot on quality suspension parts and tires and for good reason.
Just refuting your "handling" statement James, i don't question your choices, thats entirely up to you, i know what a good handling bike is set up like and unless its a racing sidecar outfit, taking 4 inches out of the suspension of a road bike is going backwards in the handling department. Don't look to be offended by my replies, no offense intended...

Alright, thanks for clearing that up. No offense meant on my part, I just don't get it when someone leaves a quirky one sentence reply with a rolling eyes smiley face.

I never got into/get into turns hard enough to be scraping side cases or anything, and am way more oriented with looks/straight line performance for sure.

My friends all ride chops and "reverse engineering" type bikes so it's not that hard to go through turns quicker. ha.

I dig my little Honda the way she is, I didn't modify it the way I did for it to be socially accepted, I just grow tired of the little one line jabs I get on this site because of it, when I ride it about 500 miles a week just fine.

Now, back to our normally scheduled programming.
Current Stable:

1972 CB750
1973 Shovel
1978 CB750
1977 KZ750T
1996 Shadow VLX

Offline Really?

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Does she sit too low?
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2012, 10:42:21 AM »

Really? - How has the handling changed since you lowered yours? It looks great, but seems that you have paid a price?

I rode it around the neighborhood a few times after I got it a couple times and rode like chit but the bike was in very sad shape.  Can't find a pic on my phone to add it.

I think the bike handles quite well now that it has been gone through and trying to do it right considering I built it for the wife.

The 18" rear wheel hit the fender and the 16" resolved that. I took into consideration the front fork travel as well. Stayed with a single disc to try and reduce the amount of compression in a panic stop. 15w fork oil to attempt to do the same. I just don't want the fender to hit the pipes.

Straight line and around town cruising, I think the bike rides very well. I do know when I have hit a larger than normal bump due to the lack of suspension travel. It is not scary, just noticeable.

The twisties limits the bike greatly!  During the Rally I felt I held y'all back a bit. I was trying not to scrape the center stand and pipe to induce wrecking. The straights are what gave me the only real opportunity to keep up with you and CBGhia.

I had to pay attention to driveways and broken ground in those small towns because the bottom of that pipe hit often. Drove me nuts.


Those little 550's sure do play well.  If the 750 were back up at the normal height, it would have been much easier to keep up with you two.  I could not really lean into the corners and hanging off the bike would not have done anything.

Someone might say, since you have not really ridden this bike before lowering it, how would you know? I have owned three of these bikes before and countless other bikes prior. I have been riding for 33 years and have ridden Mulholland Drive & Hwy, Angeles Crest and countless other twisties.

I may not be as good or near as fearless on a bike as in my younger years but I can still play in the twisties, I think, fairly well. I did mention to y'all that if we did the Rally again, I would lift the bike so it can be ridden better. It Really needed it!

Sorry for the book.

I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline Really?

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Does she sit too low?
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2012, 11:00:05 AM »
My 800lb Venture (image link in sig) would out corner that lowered 750.
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Does she sit too low?
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2012, 11:18:28 AM »
Really? - Great info, thanks for sharing. You did not hold us up during the Rally, Whatafarmer is another story!

If you make it down in Oct, I'll let you ride the 550...
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........