Author Topic: Too much carb cleaning info here! Don't know what to do next (soak? spray? etc?)  (Read 18168 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
I've searched for carb cleaning info, and that's my problem! There's so much, it's paralyzing to me!
Apologies up front for length. Here goes...

Bike: 1977 CB750F with PD41B carbs

I had been told the carbs had been cleaned and the main jets replaced within the last 3 years. This seems to be true, and they do look fairly clean compared to some I've seen.  Anyway, I have removed the float bowls, pilot and main jets and emulsion tubes, floats, and float needles. (and each set in a separate, labeled baggie, of course!)

For the record, I have new press-in pilot jets and main jets, so cleaning those shouldn't be a concern.

So.... What do I do now?  The carbs don't seem THAT dirty, but if I have them off the bike, I want to do it right.  I'd like to keep them on the rack, if possible. So... Should I use spray carb cleaner? Dunk the whole thing in simple green? How do I move forward?

My concerns:
-Does cleaning / dunking the carbs remove any lubrication on any moving parts? What / where will I need to re-lubricate? And with what type of lubricant?

-I don't know what else I need to remove, and I don't want to ruin anything.  I also don't want to take anything apart that shouldn't be.  O-rings are a good example, many people seem to suggest removing them... but I don't know if that's true, and I don't know where they all are...

-I fear some of the threads don't mention info that "everyone knows".  As in "never do THAT, or you'll ruin it!" kind of info.  I don't want to be that guy! (The carb cleaning 101 page gives me this impression...)

-If I go the spray method, I don't want to miss anything. I don't know the most important bits to be cleaned.  Most of the info just seems to say "everything"

I do have access to an air compressor as well, for the record.

So... feel free to boss me around folks!

Offline DJ_AX

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,279
  • ?!
Did it run before?
If they don't look THAT dirty then you could probably just get away with a little bit of carb cleaner spray.
But then that's relative to my opinion of what THAT dirty is.
Pictures are always very helpful for others to assess your sitiation. :)
~ Vincent . . . '75 CB750 K5 . . . '97 BMW r1100rt . . . had; '75 CB550 K1 (sold) . . .  '73 CB350G (gifted) HELL YEAH!
Disclaimer: I could be wrong. :)

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Like dj said what brought you to decide to clean your crabs in the first place?
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Sniper X

  • Resistance is not futile, it is voltage devided by current.
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 147
I will say that USUALLY if they DO need cleaning, they need more than just spraying and or soaking. I have never seen commercially available crab cleaner take everything off the carbs and jets. Usually the jets need to be hand cleaned after a good soak with picks and brushes and even sometimes wires and or small drill bits and or other tools. If the carbs haven't been sitting too long and were dry of fuel to begin with, this can be drastically reduced. BUT if they are diaphragm carbs I would always install new diaphragms or you might end up with problems you chase down till you find it is the diaphragms!
1973 CB350 Four, 1969 CL350 Scrambler (2) 1985 BMW R80RT.

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
simple green works well to break up varnish, but if you use it, rinse it with water really well.
i used carb cleaner mostly (crab cleaner is for something else)  to blast out any passages.
rubber tipped float valves - My bike's PO stopped working on it because he got tired of adjusting the float height because of a leaky bowl.  his loss, my gain.  ;D  I replaced the float valves and that solved it.  if yours are old, you probably will want to replace them.  they're cheap.
sound like you've got everything pretty clean, now put it all back together, check your float height, and move on to the next task...
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Make sure those idle jets are clean!!!
Use a #.010 electric guitar string and also some carb spray.

Also make sure the accelerator pump and nozzles must be working.

When the carbs are on the bench and assembled. Fill the carbs with gas and use a bright LED pocket flashlight to look into the intakes. Actuate the throttle a couple times and make sure you see a squirt of gas come out of each nozzle.

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
It ran, yes, though it didn't idle without choke and I'm not seeing any 'spray' from any of the accelerator pump posts in any of the carbs.

Maybe a cleaning of the accelerator pump and lines, in addition to the new jets, would be enough?

Did it run before?
If they don't look THAT dirty then you could probably just get away with a little bit of carb cleaner spray.
But then that's relative to my opinion of what THAT dirty is.
Pictures are always very helpful for others to assess your sitiation. :)

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Will try to get some photos tonight!

Did it run before?
If they don't look THAT dirty then you could probably just get away with a little bit of carb cleaner spray.
But then that's relative to my opinion of what THAT dirty is.
Pictures are always very helpful for others to assess your sitiation. :)

Offline 78whiteorbs

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,418
waiting to see- what are the main jet numbers in yours?

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
PO put in 120# mains.  I'm attempting to go back to stock with 105's and the stock airbox.

bollingball

  • Guest
Make sure those idle jets are clean!!!
Use a #.010 electric guitar string and also some carb spray.
For the record, I have new press-in pilot jets and main jets, so cleaning those shouldn't be a concern.

Also make sure the accelerator pump and nozzles must be working.

When the carbs are on the bench and assembled. Fill the carbs with gas and use a bright LED pocket flashlight to look into the intakes. Actuate the throttle a couple times and make sure you see a squirt of gas come out of each nozzle.

Mercu   With your air/comp. I take a football needle clip the end off so you have one hole out the end instead of out the side knock off any burrs and squeeze back round. This tool and the red straw on the carb can and maybe a thin soft wire is about all you will need.
 All the carb body pathways must be clear. Plenty of write ups on the pump But if you don't get it post back it is not that hard well for most people. There is the possibility the tubes and little restrictors in the tubes are plugged and you may have to derack as a last resort but probably not. There have been some people that never could get them to work and actually reverted back to ten year older carbs. But this is not necessary for a person of average mechanical abilities.
 For your pump there are(2) check valves. They must flow in (1) direction only. Check mickeys ears for a hole in both and the diaphragm for no tares and it is soft If you have to buy a new one they come with different rod lengths.
 When you get them back together check them on the bench pay close attention to the manual for setting up the fast idle cam and pump rod.
Ken

Offline Rob69

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
In all my years of working on bikes, I've never removed carburetors from the rack to clean them. Typically, I've always cleaned carburetors using a can of aerosol carburetor cleaner and compressed air. What you're looking for, is to see that each of the passageways inside the carburetor bodies is passing both fluid and air. Pay particular attention to the pilot circuits. Be sure that all passageways, including the discharge ports located either before or behind the throttle butterflies (very tiny), are passing fluid and air. Also be sure that all bleed holes on the jets and the emulsification tubes are open. I strongly suggest a jet wire kit. If you don't have one, K&L makes a relatively inexpensive one that can be had from many suppliers:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4/22/278/10115/ITEM/K-L-Carb-Cleaner-Wire-Set.aspx

Simple Green:

I've found that Simple Green is excellent for cleaning the exterior of carburetor bodies and varnished float bowls and carburetor bodies. Just find a container large enough to hold your carburetor assembly, fill it with Simple Green, submerse the carburetor assembly and float bowls for about a half hour, rinse with water and dry thoroughly inside and out with compressed air.

Accelerator pump:

Fill the float bowl with water and depress the plunger. If it doesn't shoot water all over the place, check the diaphragm and passageways. Clean and replace parts as necessary.

Float seats and needles

Q-Tips work great to clean float seats. Be sure to check the float needles for wear and/or debris. Clean or replace as necessary.

Offline cgswss

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 221
The simple thing to do is use your carb cleaner spray and squirt it in each hole to see if it comes another hole.  Take the stray and wrap a little tape around the end so it fits inside the tube for the low speed jet and squirt the fluid.  the extra seal should allow you to see some cleaner coming out inside the carb.Have you read the carb tutorial?

http://www.cb750c.com/publicdocs/SeanG/Honda_Carb_Manual_revD.pdf

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Pics:
Bowl 1
bowl1 by [ ejh . photography ], on Flickr

Bowl 4
bowl4 by [ ejh . photography ], on Flickr

Carbs 1+2

carbs1-2-under by [ ejh . photography ], on Flickr

Carbs 3+4

carbs3-4-under by [ ejh . photography ], on Flickr

Jets Carb 3 (the worst)

jets3 by [ ejh . photography ], on Flickr

Offline XLerate

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Carburetor Cleaning Tips
Much words here but it seems there’s differing ideas as to what carburetor servicing or cleaning should include. I’ve seen countless internet posts, “I’ve rebuilt/cleaned this carb 5 times and it STILL doesn’t work!”  On all small engines such as motorcycles, mowers, garden tractors, chainsaws etc. there’s some basics that need to be addressed in order to ‘Get it right the first time'.

First off: don’t get too cavalier with gasoline! It’s highly dangerous and toxic and several components have ‘Allowable Lifetime Dosage Limit’  meaning it’s cumulative in your system - Bad stuff, wear rubber gloves [Dishwashing gloves hold up well and are cheap] - allow yourself lots of FRESH AIR! A buddy was cleaning parts in his sink in the garage, busy-busy as he scrubbed away. Towards the end he wanted to wash up parts and hands in nice hot soapy water. Bent over the concrete double wash sink he flipped on the hot water faucet handle, causing a swift chain reaction. Hot water drawn off caused gas water heater burner to kick on a few feet away, igniting gas vapors in garage and flashing across to sink vapors and parts scrub pan filled with gas: THE ONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS FACE! They rebuilt that part of garage while he healed fairly well except for the scar tissues. We still call him ‘Old Baldy’. NO SMOKING AREA!

Another potential problem is TOXIC carb spray cleaner vapors! Also the little red wand thingy doesn’t want to seal tight to what you’re spraying so the back splash can go right in the face and eyes, extremely not-fun. Goggles are strongly recommended, you only have one pair of eyes!

Some carb rubber parts are destroyed by carburetor spray cleaners so it’s best to clean carb with gasoline, GENTLY disassemble and remove rubber parts before proceeding farther. It’s good to soak the whole carb assembly either in a coffee can or smaller can of gas, gas/oil mix, or gas & Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner before starting deep cleaning. Coffee cans are nice because of soft plastic lid to prevent accidental spillage or ignition. The assumption is you’ve got a carb gasket kit. Lots of carbs that you don’t need a kit at all, just careful disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. Otherwise if you don’t then monitor condition of rubber etc. while soaking but gas alone won’t hurt things.

Disassemble carb, making drawings or taking photos of parts relationships. Many carbs have online diagrams available. Best to print them out to scribble notes and draw your own little connecting lines to show exactly where parts fit together. I use old cake pans and cup cake or muffin tins to hold all the small bits & pieces. Complicated carbs or racks might call for some Zip-Lock baggies or something to hold parts groups together in one place. TIP: mark Zip-Locks with a Sharpie for extra safety in case rebuild gets delayed, oh wooops!

Remove air/fuel adjustment/mixture screws by first turning them in, counting number of turns till JUST SEATED - NOT SEATED HARD! Write that number down on your guide sheet, remove screw, on to the next. Wearing rubber gloves, using an old toothbrush and some gasoline scrubs off most of the outside of carb, unless you soaked in Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner which already did that for you! After it’s fairly clean, time to break out the spray can of Berrymans Carburetor Cleaner. I prefer Berryman’s, a very high quality product that’s quite aggressive. Cut the tip of spray tube at 45 degree angle to hold it tight against carb throat/venturi and over tiny air bleeds to direct the force as you wash them out. One straight and one 45* are handy to have and you’ll probably use up 2 can of Berrymans anyway.

There’s several air bleeds and holes in carb throat, usually one near center and 2 or 3 at inlet/filter area of carb throat on or inside the rim. Sometimes these are in a boss and pressed or screwed in, others are a simple pin-hole bored into castings. Cycle carbs have the Needle Jet screwed into center of throat below slide piston too. I soak the carb body in carb cleaner then use carb spray cleaner and small wires, like  pieces of guitar string, G, B or high E string or similar wires depending on orifice size. The wire is used to gently swab out tiny air bleeds and clean jets. DON’T USE COPPER OR BRASS WIRE! Bending back & forth anneals and softens it so it quickly wants to break off right at edge of hole: now you’re screwed! Special sets of Carburetor Jet Cleaning Wires are available online, much like acetylene torch tip cleaners.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/Carburetor-Cleaner-wire-set-236.aspx

http://jet200.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=135

When using a thin piece of wire like guitar string to clean out tiny air bleeds and jets you don't want to ream them out. Run the cut end of wire across a sharpening stone/emery paper or fine file to remove burrs or really sharp edges before using!

In addition if you have several sizes of fine steel wires you can use the 'Go - No go' test method. Start small and gently insert progressively larger diameter wires into orifice as you clean until you find the largest that easily fits. This reveals just how clogged up things really are. Insert a small one with carb wet, wiggle it around a bit to break caked deposits, spray it some, try a bigger wire. You’re not out to resize the hole, just to break up deposits! Hard force is rarely needed! Take your time, carbs are expensive.

Both the aluminum body and brass jets are much harder than many think so gentle cleaning with wires and carb solvent only removes shellac and built up deposits without reaming or increasing orifice size. Even then it can take some work to get shellac out. I find that solvents evaporate quickly so I try to use minimum amounts, squirting repeatedly as I go along. Once I’ve progressed in cleaning then start using heavier amounts to blast orifices.

Inspect Jets closely and jot down any numbers for future reference, also seeing how carb is jetted now. On a rack of carbs if numbers aren’t visible use your wires as Go/No-Go gauges to make sure all Jets match. Again, when removing any adjustment needle screws write down the number of turns to remove so you’re ballpark close on reassembly. In float bowls a hard wooden or plastic stick with one end pointed, other end like a flat screwdriver helps clean bowl irregularities.

Most bike and small engine carbs have a brass Emulsion Tube that needs to be screwed out of lower carb body. This Emulsion Tube may/should have a Jet screwed into one end and has very tiny little holes running crosswise. I’ve come across several where gunk & shellac have these tiny holes completely hidden without a very close examination. A wad of fine bronze/brass wool, small toothbrush-style brass brush or Scotchbrite pad gently cleans and polishes Emulsion Tube to reveal those hidden holes. All Emulsion tubes I’ve ever seen have a hole at the far end/domed end opposite Jet in addition to crosswise holes in the sides. Makes very sure that’s open too.

Wires and carb spray cleaner working together remove hardened fuel deposits with solvent sprayed though all orifices afterwards. If available finish by hitting with compressed air while spray cleaner’s still wet, not mandatory but sometimes helps. Carb will be good as new, far better than just a soak or ‘Spray & wash’ job.

Air bleeds in combination with metering jets control fuel/air mixture when you crack throttle, with vacuum causing fuel to flow through Jets at proper rate at proper time. Blocked air bleed orifices can mean too much air through carb throat venturi while not drawing enough fuel, causing a Lean fuel condition and stumbling because weak vacuum signal isn’t pulling fuel in. In many cases one or two are more clogged than others, causing horrible imbalance in metering circuits and problems only apparent at certain rpm's.

Sometimes a too-high float level or Needle Jet Needle can do the opposite, causing carb to dump fuel and bog Rich. A clogged air filter or restricted intake will result in too rich condition too. Clogged Jets effect fuel flow throughout any operating ranges. Too lean and you may be buying new valves soon, after you pound the seized piston out of the scored cylinder bore.

If you get backfires through carb, not through exhaust, that indicates intake leaks somewhere between carb mounting base and cylinder head. Spray carb cleaner or WD40 around carb base and intake manifold areas [not air filter intake] with engine running to reveal leaks, as engine speeds up when you spray across leak. Even better, use a Propane Torch with gas turned on low setting, with TORCH NOT LIT, playing UN-LIT propane around head-to-manifold and carb gasket surfaces. Engine speeds up if there's a leak. Obviously serious safety precautions necessary with Propane Gas!

If machine runs okay or better with choke partially or fully closed this indicates you’re lean. Could be adjustment, clogged fuel metering jets, air bleed orifices or the Needle Jet Needle set too low.

On some small engines, motorcycles, ATC/ATV the carburetor has a ‘slide’ with a Fuel Metering Needle/Rod at bottom, which Needle rides up & down in Main Needle Jet/Fuel Inlet Jet hole. The little circlip or ‘E clip’ locking clip on needle can be moved to adjust. Unscrew cap where throttle cable enters carb body and gently lift out throttle slide. Slide only goes in one way so a groove in slide & corresponding lugs in body casting must be carefully aligned!  NEVER FORCE IT IN! It’s always a very light slip fit! This slide should slip right out and if it doesn't then soak carb longer and possibly use some WD40. Moving E clip UP moves Main Jet needle Down, causing more Lean condition. Moving E clip DOWN moves Jet Needle UP causing Rich metering. This is your basic off-idle Fuel Metering as Jet Needle moves to open or restrict Main Needle Jet fuel flow.

Small engines usually have 3 steps in air/fuel control: Idle Circuit, High Speed/Main Jet Circuit and WOT. The Idle Circuit is controlled by Idle Jet size and air bleed orifices and air adjustment or idle screw. Main Circuit is controlled by Slide Piston and Main Needle Jet, or by throttle butterfly and Main Jet. WOT Circuit is by air bleeds, Main Jet and Fuel Metering Jets with slide or butterfly Wide Open Throttle. Stumbling when coming off idle says the transition to Main is too Lean, where a bog says too Rich from what I’ve seen.

A check of all fuel lines, clamps, vent lines, gas cap gasket and cap vent holes, throttle slide and twist grip cable components is easiest when it’s all apart. If you don't currently have an inline fuel filter/s it’s a good time to install. Some automotive chassis grease is lightweight viscosity and used with a pin injector in grease gun it’s great for lubing up cables.

To ‘ring out’ gaskets: lay gasket material on part to be sealed. Use a small hammer and very light taps to leave clear impression in gasket telling you where to cut it for a nice home-made gasket! Other applications you may want to use different types of pressure instead of a hammer, especially with zinc or aluminum castings, like rolling or running a shaft, blunt object or whatever in the areas to leave impressions. You can buy special round hollow sharpened punches for punching out perfect holes, or take a piece of tubing and file and sharpen one end at an angle about 45*. When reassembling try not to over-torque any carb mounting gaskets. After being crushed to a thickness there’s no going back: if it leaks it’s permanent. Just a few inch-pounds are all it should take in most circumstances.

For my part, anybody who needs to copy this is free to do so, just don't take credit for writing it, thanks!
XLerate

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
 :o someone didnt read the thread title ::)
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline DJ_AX

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,279
  • ?!
~ Vincent . . . '75 CB750 K5 . . . '97 BMW r1100rt . . . had; '75 CB550 K1 (sold) . . .  '73 CB350G (gifted) HELL YEAH!
Disclaimer: I could be wrong. :)

Offline DJ_AX

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,279
  • ?!
Bowl 1 looks like it has a repaired cracked stand pipe. Those brass tubes drain overflow if the bowl gets too full. Sometimes they get a crack.. a small piece of hose is the fix.
What is that tape near the tip of 4? ... oh no wait ... I see .. that's just the crystalized junk.
Me.. I got a gallon can of carb cleaner/dip. And just dunked the end of the rack in there and let it soak. along with all the needles...
And brush and rinse... until clean...and then spray with carb cleaner.. blow with air... inspect.. make sure all of the holes and nooks and crannys are clear.

Put 'em on your bike and ride!
~ Vincent . . . '75 CB750 K5 . . . '97 BMW r1100rt . . . had; '75 CB550 K1 (sold) . . .  '73 CB350G (gifted) HELL YEAH!
Disclaimer: I could be wrong. :)

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,088
Boiling mine in a vat of 50/50 vinegar / water and while they were boiling using a guitar string (which every fit the tightest) in every orifice I could find, worked better than any tear down / soda blast /carb cleaner spray that I have done so far.

I should add that this was after everything was free. I wouldn't advise it if everything is frozen in place. Also after the boil, I sprayed everything down with brake cleaner to ensure there was no residue left over from the boil.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 08:40:09 AM by twistedengineering »
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
glad you washed that vinegar off  8)
like i've always said...
its better to have a bike that smells like a bike, than a bike that smells like a douche!  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline XLerate

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97
:o someone didnt read the thread title ::)

If that's pointed at me you're mistaken. I posted because I did read thread title and did read text of the gentleman's specific questions.

"...don't know what to do next (soak? Spray? Etc?) So.... What do I do now? Does cleaning / dunking the carbs remove any lubrication on any moving parts? I don't know what else I need to remove, and I don't want to ruin anything. I also don't want to take anything apart that shouldn't be. O-rings are a good example, many people seem to suggest removing them... but I don't know if that's true, and I don't know where they all are... I fear some of the threads don't mention info that "everyone knows".  As in "never do THAT, or you'll ruin it!" kind of info.  I don't want to be that guy! (The carb cleaning 101 page gives me this impression...) If I go the spray method, I don't want to miss anything. I don't know the most important bits to be cleaned.  Most of the info just seems to say "everything" So... feel free to boss me around folks!"

Maybe you didn't read the intro to what I wrote. I described folk's confusion over various information or misinformation they'd found on the net. I didn't find thread he mentioned titled 'Carb Cleaning 101' but read the Carb thread in FAQ's which I thought was the one he referenced. I saw that it was a huge bewildering bunch of posts that left my head reeling, even though I know carb REBUILDING and theory fairly well. No doubt a really great information source but it gets extremely technical for a newcomer who just wants to easily and simply fix his bike.

My reason for writing that and posting was to directly answer all his questions, to makes it all very simple so anybody has a very good chance of being able to successfully rebuild their carb/s with the info. Also gives just a little on symptoms and real basic theory for someone who isn't familiar with carbs, so they get a basic idea how carbs work. I know it works because I've rebuilt many hundreds over the last 50 years. My intention is to help folks when I can, that's all. Sorry if it caused any problems posting it. I can refrain in the future and go back out the same door I came in.

Offline my78k

  • I am Meat-O of the Hungry Horses MC
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,839
I am thinking he was joking about the "too much carb cleaning info"....

If you are going to dip the whole rack make sure you remove the acceperator pump as the diaphram doesn't like carb cleaner (mine was eaten away!)

Dennis

Offline Mercutiojb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
No, I was actually serious! The beauty of this forum is the large, large amount of information it contains.  However, that can also be a curse.  I found dozens of threads discussing carb cleaning, all slightly different, all with slightly different problems, approaches, solutions. 

My problem is that I never know how much is assumed.  Actually you mentioned removing the accelerator pump diaphragm before dunking in carb cleaner.  I wouldn't have known that!  Then again, I've seen threads saying the yamaha carb cleaner is safe for rubber items? Etc, etc... the vast amount of information sometimes makes it difficult to know how to approach a problem.

I really do appreciate everyone's help.  For someone who's experienced with this, I'm sure this is just "another carb cleaning thread"  But the members here are great at helping a new guy like me get this old bike back on the road!

I am thinking he was joking about the "too much carb cleaning info"....


Offline Rob69

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53

Another potential problem is TOXIC carb spray cleaner vapors! Also the little red wand thingy doesn’t want to seal tight to what you’re spraying so the back splash can go right in the face and eyes, extremely not-fun. Goggles are strongly recommended, you only have one pair of eyes!
Agreed.

Some carb rubber parts are destroyed by carburetor spray cleaners so it’s best to clean carb with gasoline, GENTLY disassemble and remove rubber parts before proceeding farther. It’s good to soak the whole carb assembly either in a coffee can or smaller can of gas, gas/oil mix, or gas & Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner before starting deep cleaning. Coffee cans are nice because of soft plastic lid to prevent accidental spillage or ignition. The assumption is you’ve got a carb gasket kit. Lots of carbs that you don’t need a kit at all, just careful disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. Otherwise if you don’t then monitor condition of rubber etc. while soaking but gas alone won’t hurt things.
In theory your assertion that carburetor spray cleaner will destroy some rubber components is correct, but when cleaning carburetors, the rubber and plastic pieces aren't exposed to the cleaner long enough to cause any damage. Between compressed air and the fact that the cleaner evaporates quickly, it's simply not an issue. Of course, it's common sense to not take any unnecessary chances and remove as many of plastic and rubber pieces as possible before cleaning. Be that as it may, ethanol-based fuel poses a much greater threat to the said parts than being in contact with carburetor cleaner for a shirt period of time. I've cleaned carburetors my whole life using aerosol carburetor cleaners and never had any problems. In fact, that was the preferred method in dealership service departments before ultrasonic cleaners became the norm. There's no need to separate carburetors off the rack. That's just making unnecessary work for yourself.

Offline XLerate

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97

Another potential problem is TOXIC carb spray cleaner vapors! Also the little red wand thingy doesn’t want to seal tight to what you’re spraying so the back splash can go right in the face and eyes, extremely not-fun. Goggles are strongly recommended, you only have one pair of eyes!
Agreed.

Some carb rubber parts are destroyed by carburetor spray cleaners so it’s best to clean carb with gasoline, GENTLY disassemble and remove rubber parts before proceeding farther. It’s good to soak the whole carb assembly either in a coffee can or smaller can of gas, gas/oil mix, or gas & Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner before starting deep cleaning. Coffee cans are nice because of soft plastic lid to prevent accidental spillage or ignition. The assumption is you’ve got a carb gasket kit. Lots of carbs that you don’t need a kit at all, just careful disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. Otherwise if you don’t then monitor condition of rubber etc. while soaking but gas alone won’t hurt things.

In theory your assertion that carburetor spray cleaner will destroy some rubber components is correct, but when cleaning carburetors, the rubber and plastic pieces aren't exposed to the cleaner long enough to cause any damage. Between compressed air and the fact that the cleaner evaporates quickly, it's simply not an issue. Of course, it's common sense to not take any unnecessary chances and remove as many of plastic and rubber pieces as possible before cleaning. Be that as it may, ethanol-based fuel poses a much greater threat to the said parts than being in contact with carburetor cleaner for a shirt period of time. I've cleaned carburetors my whole life using aerosol carburetor cleaners and never had any problems. In fact, that was the preferred method in dealership service departments before ultrasonic cleaners became the norm. There's no need to separate carburetors off the rack. That's just making unnecessary work for yourself.

I'll have to disagree with your statement too. I much prefer to 'Error on the side of caution'. I'm not about to write up a carb cleaning instruction and tell people, who may read it on internet anywhere in the world, that all carb cleaners are safe for rubber and plastic. Some people, wherever they may be, are going to soak whole carb or parts in who knows what formula of carb cleaner and some formulas will surely attack rubber. Even Berrymans commonly comes in bulk liquid form and soaking it that can harm rubber. Some say Yamaha carb cleaner is safe but I had some rubber parts on an old carb deteriorate after a soak according to Yamaha product instruction.

My instructions weren't for a spray and wash type cleaning where cleaner would evaporate in a few seconds, but for disassembly and full proper cleaning of all parts. When that's done and aggressive carb cleaner is used it will attack rubber. It's just about inpossible to properly clean a carb without a full disassembly in my experience. And yes, my 'mechanical experience' includes apprenticeships many long years ago for 4 manufacturer's carbureted products so I have also been around the block a few times.

Regarding ethanol fuel, if a person has their carb parts getting damaged during cleaning by the fuel they use in the bike to ride it then they really do have a problem.

You're right, most carb racks allow for a pretty full rebuild of all carbs in rack without separating from the rack hardware.