Topic: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.

[BrockSamson]

Sure short of running down each bike we think is too loud and getting a DB reading... its hard to support what is only anecdotal and subjective.  You have to take the generalized DB measurements provided by those doing the research.  If you look at this:

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm

We have a source.  That source is Purdue.  It does detail that the information was obtained from Temple University Department of Civil/Environmental Engineering, Federal Agency Review of Selected Airport Noise Analysis, Federal Interagency Committee on Noise, Outdoor Noise and the Metropolitan Environment, M.C. Branch Department of City Planning.

So they give a generalized 90-100 DB at ranges from 25ft-0ft for motorcycles and describe that damage is likely to occur at these levels after 8 hours of exposure.

I don't know what else you want.  These are average ratings for motorcycles.  The discussion here was pointed directly at those who modify their exhaust or have straight pipes... it is difficult to denying that is even louder than that average motorcycle rating.

Is anyone trying to suggest that a passing motorcycle with louder than stock pipes will not damage a person's hearing?  Is that even a "view point" that is open for discussion?  What is the other view point?  That all motorcycles operate within tolerable levels and we are just #$%*ing without evidence?  Or is the argument that the general public is safe from hearing damage even if these motorcycles operate at these levels?  That the evidence that has been provided so far is flawed or wrong?

[MRieck]

DOT noise levels also take into account actual mechanical noise prroducedby an engine a various RPM's. Bike makers have gone to great lengths to reduce mechanical noise via liquid cooling, dampers placed in engine covers/fairings etc. In the case of the latest ZX-10 they went as far as to cut about 20 HP on the top end to control induction noise. I believe a great deal of this is to "Rob Peter to pay Paul". If  you quiet the engine down you can make the exhaust louder in the  pursuit of improved flow and performance. DOT cares  about overall noise....not exactly where it comes from.
  There is also a basic visceral attraction to a bike having an exhaust note. A street legal Aston Martin sounds great IMO. If all bikes....and street legal cars..... sounded like a Prius I think the world be a more boring place. All cars and bikes could also be the same color....it's paint and does the job. That wouldn't much fun either but control freaks would certainly be happy.

[crazypj]

All of those pale into insignificance though compared to the prelude of a Supermarine Spitfire flying low overhead and out to sea as an entree to the best sound I ever did hear, an Avro Lancaster Bomber, banking hard at the top of the Derwent Valley to begin a low level simulated bomb run on the derwent reservoir in the Peak District in England. On a hot summers day, in the peace of a beautiful National Park. The Lancaster made everyone stop, watch, listen, every man woman and child

I was living in South Wales when that Lanc was at St Athan, the sound of 4 Merlins is F*** Awesome, (I think they re-built it there?)
 I still wouldn't want to be closer than 1000ft when it fires up though (at least not without some serious ear protection)
I was at (I think?) Donnington when they had the Spitfire/Messerschmidt 'Battle of Britain' reenactment.
 Some engines just sound great others are just annoying, some are plain scary- fully armed Harrier jump jet, full throttle testing at about 50ft, when it points at you 'looking' for targets .......................................  (I was a civilian just working there)

I think around 1985~86, TUV in Germany proposed new noise levels, BMW boxer (R Series) couldn't pass 50Km/hr noise test--------WITH A 'DEAD' ENGINE - too much wind noise
 I don't think it was introduced?  BMW did re-design the engine

[seanbarney41]

Please everyone remember...100db from a passing motorcycle is not gonna damage your hearing...hook up a tow rope and ride a skateboard behind said 100db motorcycle for 20 minutes and that is gonna possibly damage your hearing.  When it comes to loud sounds and hearing damage, the amount of time exposed is much more important.

[scottly]

I used to fly airplanes with rather noisy cockpits.  After I started wearing noise attenuating headsets, I noticed a dramatic decrease in fatigue factor during flight.

What about all the people within ear-shot of your NOISY airplane?? Did you issue them earplugs?

A noisy cockpit does not equate to noisy airplane for those on the ground, particularly when the ears are 1000 ft or more away (at least 60 dB down from source).  The plane had/has an FAA approved muffler installed.  I issued earplugs or attenuating headsets to all my passengers after I learned about hearing damage and began using them.

FAA approved has nothing to do with sound levels. The FAA must approve any modification on an aircraft, due to safety concerns. Just what type of plane do you own? As a pilot and aircraft owner, you surely must know that the propeller cutting through the air is responsible for a great deal of the noise, whether piston engine or turbo-prop. The wop-wop sound of a helicopter is from the rotor blades, not the turbine.
If you are talking about jets, I've been within 1000 feet of an F-16 on full after-burners during take-off. The loudest, most obnoxious sounding motorcycle I've ever heard pales in comparison.
Have you tested your stock bikes, under the test conditions you have stated? Did they indeed come in under 80 db? 

[Retro Rocket]

Please everyone remember...100db from a passing motorcycle is not gonna damage your hearing...hook up a tow rope and ride a skateboard behind said 100db motorcycle for 20 minutes and that is gonna possibly damage your hearing.  When it comes to loud sounds and hearing damage, the amount of time exposed is much more important.

That is exactly right Sean so that just killed any argument right there, because as far as i know, there is no where in the world where Harley's with straight pipes run past anyone's house for 8 hours+ a day.......  Loud bikes in suburban area's that are ridden to annoy or the operator just doesn't care about, are a-holes, there's no doubt about that, but all the rubbish about it damaging your hearing is exactly that, rubbish....

[trueblue]

What your forgetting Retro, is that loud exhausts are more damaging to society than letting psychopaths own 100 round assault rifles.

[w1sa]

 

[Retro Rocket]

What your forgetting Retro, is that loud exhausts are more damaging to society than letting psychopaths own 100 round assault rifles.

Yes, i noticed some of the crossovers and contradictions Blue.

[demon78]

Lord moonpie I'm probably one of the bike offenders, I'm old, I can't hear any more but if you think that the noise from a Merlin is wonderful you're right. You should have heard the glorious music from 10 Lancasters at a 1000 feet.
Bill the demon.

[MCRider]

Please everyone remember...100db from a passing motorcycle is not gonna damage your hearing...hook up a tow rope and ride a skateboard behind said 100db motorcycle for 20 minutes and that is gonna possibly damage your hearing.  When it comes to loud sounds and hearing damage, the amount of time exposed is much more important.

That is exactly right Sean so that just killed any argument right there, because as far as i know, there is no where in the world where Harley's with straight pipes run past anyone's house for 8 hours+ a day.......  Loud bikes in suburban area's that are ridden to annoy or the operator just doesn't care about, are a-holes, there's no doubt about that, but all the rubbish about it damaging your hearing is exactly that, rubbish....

It doesn't need to be 8 hours a day. It can be as little as one solitary blast. Its the same as someone walking up behind the victim and hitting them in the head with a flat board. You don't know. Theonly one who knowsis the victim.

But if you want a constant exposure, be an elderly peson in a condo on Hiway A1A in Daytona during speedweek. Its constant, non stop harleys all day long for a week. many people with the resources, leave. Others suffer.

And your dismissal of hearing damage as rubbish is truly sad.   

[BrockSamson]

Reading Harley forums the guys have a very hard time getting down to the < 100 DB. 

As you can see from the link an actual source and not just out of my ass that it will cause damage very quickly.

Stop generalizing and look at the data being presented to you because this isn't rubbish.

Has loud pipes become a religion?  Fact and reason thrown out the window even when presented with data and facts?  Argue against data being presented to you by just saying "its rubbish" or denying it without your own supporting evidence.  This thread is dead to me until someone posts some actual information, data or ANYTHING other than passing us off as being incorrect without supporting data.

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

[Gamma]

All of those pale into insignificance though compared to the prelude of a Supermarine Spitfire flying low overhead and out to sea as an entree to the best sound I ever did hear, an Avro Lancaster Bomber, banking hard at the top of the Derwent Valley to begin a low level simulated bomb run on the derwent reservoir in the Peak District in England. On a hot summers day, in the peace of a beautiful National Park. The Lancaster made everyone stop, watch, listen, every man woman and child

I was living in South Wales when that Lanc was at St Athan, the sound of 4 Merlins is F*** Awesome, (I think they re-built it there?)
 I still wouldn't want to be closer than 1000ft when it fires up though (at least not without some serious ear protection)
I was at (I think?) Donnington when they had the Spitfire/Messerschmidt 'Battle of Britain' reenactment.
 Some engines just sound great others are just annoying, some are plain scary- fully armed Harrier jump jet, full throttle testing at about 50ft, when it points at you 'looking' for targets .......................................  (I was a civilian just working there)

I think around 1985~86, TUV in Germany proposed new noise levels, BMW boxer (R Series) couldn't pass 50Km/hr noise test--------WITH A 'DEAD' ENGINE - too much wind noise
 I don't think it was introduced?  BMW did re-design the engine

Hey Crazypj,
Small world, I worked at St Athan 85-87 on Victor Tankers and Buccaneers.  I owned a CBX1000Z then with a Marshall 6 into 1.
I also worked on Harrier GR3's in Germany 3(f) Sqn 79-82, I had a CB750F1 with standard exhaust, then a CB750F2 with a Marving Race 4 into 1.

[veloracermike]

Hearing damage from noise isn't the issue and those of you who dismiss this with the idea that no hearing loss is being done are completely missing the point.  I suggest you spend some time at a your city council meetings. I've attended many, some about noise as I was part of the group trying to save Riverside raceway in the 80's then part of Cal Club getting the permits for the development of Buttonwillow Raceway.  All of the people who opposed these raceways did it on basis of noise pollution.  None of them had any understanding of motorsport.  None of them cared that (in Riverside's case) that March AFB was far louder and on a daily basis.  Riverside is closed.  We had to make a ton of concessions to get Buttonwillow open.  But the vast majority of city council meetings I've attended that had the angriest and most vocal opponents are ones regarding bicycles.  The people making these complaints were generally fat and lazy, people who haven't exorcized  in decades but complained vehemently about how cyclist were blocking traffic and didn't belong on the road.  Like in the raceway meetings these complainers had a lot of support on the council. Why? Because they don't do what we do.  They don't care about what we do.  They agree with the people making the complaints. 

Whats the point here?  Simple. It doesn't matter that you are right, it matters that if you continue to ride your bike with loud pipes a very vocal uninformed minority will make sure you will only have stock exhausts on your bike.  You can make a few concessions and keep an aftermarket exhaust or you can say eff' you and lose it all. 

[crazypj]

Jennings GP in north Florida can only run because race bikes have to have mufflers.
If you can't get inside noise regs, you spectate or go home

[veloracermike]

SCCA has those too

[scrapvalue]

I think the most obnoxious and annoying sound is, high pitch whining.

[Duke McDukiedook]

riding a bike with loud pipes is like yelling everytime you open your mouth

OR UNLEASHING THE UNHOLY POWER OF TEH CAPS LOCK ON UNSUSPECTING READERS!!!!!! 

[crazypj]

All of those pale into insignificance though compared to the prelude of a Supermarine Spitfire flying low overhead and out to sea as an entree to the best sound I ever did hear, an Avro Lancaster Bomber, banking hard at the top of the Derwent Valley to begin a low level simulated bomb run on the derwent reservoir in the Peak District in England. On a hot summers day, in the peace of a beautiful National Park. The Lancaster made everyone stop, watch, listen, every man woman and child

I was living in South Wales when that Lanc was at St Athan, the sound of 4 Merlins is F*** Awesome, (I think they re-built it there?)
 I still wouldn't want to be closer than 1000ft when it fires up though (at least not without some serious ear protection)
I was at (I think?) Donnington when they had the Spitfire/Messerschmidt 'Battle of Britain' reenactment.
 Some engines just sound great others are just annoying, some are plain scary- fully armed Harrier jump jet, full throttle testing at about 50ft, when it points at you 'looking' for targets .......................................  (I was a civilian just working there)

I think around 1985~86, TUV in Germany proposed new noise levels, BMW boxer (R Series) couldn't pass 50Km/hr noise test--------WITH A 'DEAD' ENGINE - too much wind noise
 I don't think it was introduced?  BMW did re-design the engine

Hey Crazypj,
Small world, I worked at St Athan 85-87 on Victor Tankers and Buccaneers.  I owned a CBX1000Z then with a Marshall 6 into 1.
I also worked on Harrier GR3's in Germany 3(f) Sqn 79-82, I had a CB750F1 with standard exhaust, then a CB750F2 with a Marving Race 4 into 1.

 I was working for Two Wheel Services then
Moved  back and fore from Leslie Griffiths Motors

[Retro Rocket]

It doesn't need to be 8 hours a day. It can be as little as one solitary blast.

If someone suffers hearing loss after one blast of sound from a motorcycle, then they already had ear problems to start with, I am a rock musician and am well aware of how much loud noise it takes to do damage and the frequency of that noise, a motorcycle with a loud pipe will do NO DAMAGE driving past your house, your analogy of hitting someone in the head has absolutely nothing to do with NOISE.  I suffer tinnitus from loud noise exposure {standing in front of 100 watt amps for hours at a time over a very long period in time}, it only started a couple of years ago after years and years of over 100db exposure. I am not saying noise will not hurt your ears, i am saying that exaggeration isn't helping this thread, noisy bikes are annoying, not damaging to your ears, unless you have one strapped to your head....

And your dismissal of hearing damage as rubbish is truly sad.

In this context its is rubbish, we are talking about loud motorcycles going past your house, no one is going to go deaf from that, i love the way you guys throw emotion into the thread to justify your arguments, that is whats sad....

I think the most obnoxious and annoying sound is, high pitch whining.

 

[scrapvalue]

VROOM! VROOM!                 BAARRRRAAPP!          RING-A-DING-DING-DING!             POTATO-P0TATO-POTATO!

How's your hearing now!

[scottly]

I think the most obnoxious and annoying sound is, high pitch whining.

1+

[lordmoonpie]

Lord moonpie I'm probably one of the bike offenders, I'm old, I can't hear any more but if you think that the noise from a Merlin is wonderful you're right. You should have heard the glorious music from 10 Lancasters at a 1000 feet.
Bill the demon.

Man I would have loved to have heard that Bill, two is as many as I've heard together and it was like a symphony of sound.....
One of the guys I work with has unearthed an old wartime merlin in eastern Europe and him and some buddies are restoring it now, lucky man I say!

Anyway - me and some of the guys got together last night and after discussing this thread, we decided to give the neighbours an impromptu concert...
http://youtu.be/JSAZfUTmKX0

[dave500]

ill join in,,with some older file footage,,turn up your sound here.

[demon78]

Lord Moonpie I got to hear it when our squadron converted from Lanc's to Neptunes the CO at the time felt it would be a good thing to have a flypast of Lancasters leaving the squadron, so every one in the squadron turned out wives and other ranks were there to, we got them off they formed up and came across the field at a thousand feet all ten and appropriately enough it was over cast with a little scotch mist in the air, the sound was incredible I wish I had pictures of the event, or a sound recording but alas. There are some times that loud noise is beautiful.
Bill the demon.