Author Topic: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...  (Read 10428 times)

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Offline xnewmanx

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So I'm planning on building an exhaust for my bike but I do have a few questions about CB specifics.  I have experience with this sort of thing, here's a manifold I build for my nissan skyline engine that I put in my BMW E30.  I did all the work.










Anyway.  I have a few questions...  Disclaimer: I want the bike to run well, but I'm not looking for a performer.  If form is going to cost me a little bit of function...  I'm ok with that, here.

Can I just run 4 straight 1.5" pipes?  I like the "visual volume" that the stock exhaust occupies, so I'm trying to maintain that look, but with straightpipes so I can cut down on the width a bit.  I'm not a fan of the look of a megaphone.

I read somewhere that people put a washer in the exhaust to sort of "tune" it?

Any other concerns or considerations before I start???

Here's a pic of my bike.  Still waiting for a front brake caliper.

Offline Gurp

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Not so sure about tuning the exhaust but dam your bike and car are great looking.
slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline HondaMan

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The straight pipes work like this: the length of the pipe determines the RPM range where the suction of the exiting pulse can then lower the pressure in the pipe at the head. The end cut must be square in order for this to work, however, else the suction is totally lost. The function of the megaphone shape is to follow the increasing volume of the pulse and shape it, so when it reaches the exit it exerts magimum suction at the other end of the pipe. There are many [old] texts on this topic, and the physics has not changed one iota since they were published in the 1940s. The books are incredibly hard to obtain today, drawing over $500 per copy for the few that I have been able to locate. I was fortunate enough to have one for a year in the early 1970s...

If you don't care about the performance, then cut the pipe(s) to whatever length suits. Be aware, though, that an unspecific-length pipe will cause a wide RPM range of low-pressure at the head, which will cause a draw thru the head during overlap, which in turn puts unburned fuel into the headers. This makes the exhaust side of the head and the front of the pipes hotter than normal as the burn lights with the next exhaust stroke, and can cause small backfire during decel on long hills. Installing some backpressure will reduce this heating tendency by reducing how much unburned fuel is dragged along.

You will also experience 3 RPM bands of power increase and decrease, relative to the stock pipes. I'll leave you do discover where they are, but one of them will make the bike feel very 'flat' in city traffic. ;)
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Offline Gurp

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Hondaman if he was to put wrapped baffles in those pipes wouldn't that help the back pressure? Just wondering i have a 74 model CB550 and it had open headers when i got it i remember this flt spot very well... But now i have drags with baffles going to wrap them when i get the bike going again due to the backpressure issue. Just wondering your thoughts sine its relevent to to newman and i. And also thanks hondaman on you expert chime in


Ron
slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline xnewmanx

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The straight pipes work like this: the length of the pipe determines the RPM range where the suction of the exiting pulse can then lower the pressure in the pipe at the head. The end cut must be square in order for this to work, however, else the suction is totally lost. The function of the megaphone shape is to follow the increasing volume of the pulse and shape it, so when it reaches the exit it exerts magimum suction at the other end of the pipe. There are many [old] texts on this topic, and the physics has not changed one iota since they were published in the 1940s. The books are incredibly hard to obtain today, drawing over $500 per copy for the few that I have been able to locate. I was fortunate enough to have one for a year in the early 1970s...

If you don't care about the performance, then cut the pipe(s) to whatever length suits. Be aware, though, that an unspecific-length pipe will cause a wide RPM range of low-pressure at the head, which will cause a draw thru the head during overlap, which in turn puts unburned fuel into the headers. This makes the exhaust side of the head and the front of the pipes hotter than normal as the burn lights with the next exhaust stroke, and can cause small backfire during decel on long hills. Installing some backpressure will reduce this heating tendency by reducing how much unburned fuel is dragged along.

You will also experience 3 RPM bands of power increase and decrease, relative to the stock pipes. I'll leave you do discover where they are, but one of them will make the bike feel very 'flat' in city traffic. ;)

Great post! Totally makes sense.  I guess if anything I'm more concerned about low and midrange, as "city driving" is what I do most of. Would building in a baffle of some sort to increase the backpressure help me get there to a point where the bike wasn't terribly flat?

Is stock diameter pretty much required or will I experience (another) significant power loss if I jump to 1.75" pipes?

Offline xnewmanx

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Here's what I came up with.

304SS
Just tacked at the moment.

sorry for the weird instagram pics:




Offline lone*X

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Pipes 1 and 3 appear to be considerably longer than pipes 1 and 4 from the pictures you provided.  This is going to change the extraction characteristics considerably between 1/4 and 2/3.  This will be almost impossible to tune unless you get the pipes equal length. 
Lone*X  ( Don )

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Offline shinyribs

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Tuning aside, those pipes look so flippin' awesome I almost wouldn't even care how the bike ran! Great work man! Heck,if the tacks are strong enough,i'd take them for a little test ride. If it ran good i'd rock them!
The darn fool didn't know it couldn't be done...so he went ahead and did it anyway.

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Offline Gurp

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 05:56:28 PM »
Pipes look amazing.
slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 10:02:09 AM »
Welded them up.  It was my second time TIG welding but I think I did alright.  The pipes didn't move much so I must have exercised decent heat control.

I put some "lollipops" in there to build some backpressure.

Put in some 110s and a 40 pilot and she runs awesome. Sounds rad too.  Going back to mid controls was a weird change.

Offline singedebile

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 10:51:43 AM »
I'm curious, did you simply cut and tack as you went? or did you draw up more solidworks drawings?
1975 cb550f super sport, 1976 Yamaha IT400, 1974 Suzuki T500

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 11:11:47 AM »
I'm wondering why it says 550 in the title but the bike is a 500.  :o

Suppose I should have looked at the engine.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 03:43:47 AM by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline L3niin

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 05:41:31 PM »
Bravo ,! great work ..
MyFirst cb500
cb550 77

Offline Dimitri13

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2012, 05:51:48 PM »
I'm more curious about the USD fork swap than the exhaust.

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2012, 08:55:47 PM »
I'm more curious about the USD fork swap than the exhaust.

It's super easy to do. I had the whole thing swapped on in under 24 hours.

I'm wondering why it says 550 in the title but the bike is a 500.  :o

because they're different side covers.  I got the bike about 6 years ago at a garage sale for, I kid you not, 10 dollars.  It was 100% stock, no rust on it at all.  Actually just jumped it and drove it home. But then once I got it home I did a couple burnouts with it and popped the tire so I just left it outside for a year or two and it got sort of #$%*ted up from the rain and snow.  A year or so later I decided I wanted to ride it so I went to retrieve it and someone had backed into it and the side covers broke.  So I recently got new ones in a similar color.  The tank was actually in really great shape before I smashed it in with a hammer to make the kick panels.  Everything was in almost perfect shape. But I only paid 10 bucks for it so I didn't really care.

I'm curious, did you simply cut and tack as you went? or did you draw up more solidworks drawings?

Just kinda figured it out as I went along.  Didn't have much of a plan...  just let my imagination run wild.


I thought the back end seemed a little vacant so I fabbed up these filler plates from 12GA aluminum...




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Offline Dimitri13

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2012, 11:04:23 PM »
I'm more curious about the USD fork swap than the exhaust.

It's super easy to do. I had the whole thing swapped on in under 24 hours.


Well, which forks and triple? Was it a bolt-on or did you have to modify the steering stem or neck? What bearings?

And do you know my friend Robert O.? He has a 240Z with a V8 (I think 355).

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 11:16:36 PM »
Did your friend's car recently start on fire? If so, I know him.

Second, it's an 06 gsxr front end.  All I had to do was cut/press the stem out of the cb triple, then machine an adapter to expand/press it into the gsxr triple.  Machined a quick spacer for the upper tree and another spacer for the rotor.  Done.  Oh, I also made an axle from scratch.

I could probably do it again in a few hours.  I thought about making and selling bolt on triples w/ cb compatible axles if there was enough interest...

Offline Dimitri13

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 11:39:27 PM »
Haha yeah it did.



I'd definitely be interestesd in buying a bolt-on swap.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2012, 05:08:05 AM »
I'm more curious about the USD fork swap than the exhaust.

+1
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2012, 05:11:18 AM »
So my first question is: are you going to offroad that cb? If so cool, if not how about those tires on the street? I ride my yz250 down the street and its unsettling at times. Next, why didnt you use a BMW powertrain? I have a friend who is a tech at BMW and he's in love with Nissans, but I don't think he'd do that.
1968 Honda Z50
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Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2012, 07:08:01 AM »
The short answer is: I just like the knobbies because they look cool. They are DOT tires believe it or not.   The longer answer is that I'm hoping to use it to access some of the more remote towers I BASE jump from. But it's so loud now, I don't want to blow my cover.

And I put a Nissan engine in because it had never been done before. If I had put in a BMW engine, it probably wouldn't have been featured on jalopnik or been in the magazines that it was in...

Offline TerryK

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2012, 10:07:31 AM »
You sir, are an artiste'.

Offline singedebile

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Do you have a vague idea of what you would charge for the parts you made to do the fork swap? I may be interested... and I feel like you could find at least 10 here on forums that would as well.
1975 cb550f super sport, 1976 Yamaha IT400, 1974 Suzuki T500

Offline Gurp

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2012, 02:02:44 PM »
Do you have a vague idea of what you would charge for the parts you made to do the fork swap? I may be interested... and I feel like you could find at least 10 here on forums that would as well.


+1
 I would also be interested in this kind of conversion. The lack of skill and or machines to do this kind work limits many of us. This would be a nice product for many of us out there.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 02:07:51 PM by Gurp »
slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline xnewmanx

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Re: Any tips before building an exhaust? Also: new member + cb550 pics...
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2012, 05:42:21 PM »
Here's a pic of everything together.




I'd have to consider what it'd actually cost to buy the triple trees and make the required parts.  I'd guess for the trees and the axle and brake adapter it'd be around 400??