Topic: Cold Blooded, Dies w/Quick Throttle

[clgenelin]

Road tested for 15 minutes.  Came back and just did a full synch.  Same throttle response issue.  Also, turning the fuel-air screw still has no effect on idle RPM using a seperate tach on the ignition.  Am I doing something wrong?  I started changed the depth of the #4 Carb from 1.5 turns out.  Do I start with #2?  Could it be the needle position like in previous posts?  I need help finding where to adjust needle.  Thanks.

[clgenelin]

Pulled airbox and outlets for accel pump on #3 and #4 appear clogged.  #1 and #2 appear to be working.  Plan is to pull carbs off...again, and replace fuel line from tank and between carbs, as well as possibly add fuel filter.  Then, try to adjust needle position per earlier recommendations.  Missing anything?

[lucky]

If you replace the fuel lines between carbs on the accelerator circuit be advise that inside the black rubber hoses are brass restrictors to raise the pressure. Do not just throw away the black hoses without removing the brass restrictors and transferring them to the new fuel hoses.

You have to remove the slides (one at a time) from each carb to get to the needles.
I would drop the clip ONE step to the 2nd notch down fro the top of the needle.

[clgenelin]

No decent fuel line options or filters at Auto Zone or Advance.  Disassembled carbs and checked all things accel pump.  Also moved the needle clip down one notch to second from top.  Reassembled and accel pump worked perfect for first 5 minutes, then the same.  Something (rust?) must be getting in and jamming it up.  Also, even with new needle position, fuel-air screws still had no significant effect on RPM when using tach on ignition.  Resynched carbs and drove bike for 30 minutes.  Definately running better than original setup, but boggs at mid-high RPMs when trying to pour on throttle to accelerate at 45-55 mph.  Probably going to search around for fuel lines and filter that will fit and reattack later.

[Spanner 1]

Crappy fuel delivery to the carb bowls IMO....gummed-up petcock , not filter problem 

[lucky]

No decent fuel line options or filters at Auto Zone or Advance.  Disassembled carbs and checked all things accel pump.  Also moved the needle clip down one notch to second from top.  Reassembled and accel pump worked perfect for first 5 minutes, then the same.  Something (rust?) must be getting in and jamming it up.  Also, even with new needle position, fuel-air screws still had no significant effect on RPM when using tach on ignition.  Resynched carbs and drove bike for 30 minutes.  Definately running better than original setup, but boggs at mid-high RPMs when trying to pour on throttle to accelerate at 45-55 mph.  Probably going to search around for fuel lines and filter that will fit and reattack later.

Hold on a sec. What are the mixture screws set to right now??
But now it is running better with the needle moved up and richer mixture.
I would try changing the main jet to a 115.


Remember just one change at a time.


So right now the accelerator pump nozzles are not working?
You know they only squirt right at first upon opening the throttle. They do not spray fuel all the time.


Try mixture screws at 7/8 turn open before you do any thing else. 1.5 is too much.
After you get that accelerator pump system working right.

[clgenelin]

Screws are at 1.5 turns out as a default.  I saw no change in idle when turning them in or out.  I'm aware that accelerator pump only squirts a small stream of fuel on quick throttle snaps.  Last time a cleaned and reassembled with new pump components, it bench tested fine, and work great on bike for first 1-2 minutes, then hicupped on quick throttle.  Took off airbox and visually inspected and it was no longer spraying.  Re-cleaned, and now same results again.  It has to be garbage in the fuel. I may try smaller jets again later, but first thing is gettin accel to work.

[bollingball]

You must really like working on these carbs All this work and you don't bother to put a fuel filter on. Honda has a good one for in the tank. I don't care if every thing is brand new. First time the cap comes off all you need is one little bug to fly in. Good luck.

[clgenelin]

Well I took the carbs off several times in the past few months to put an end to the accel pump issue.  I think my gaskets may be cutting off the fuel?  I've done this 3 times: Take off carbs, remove pump components, inspect all things accel pump and see no problems.  Spray carb cleaner in all pump related parts.  Bench test and see good flow.  Put back on bike, and eventually stops spraying.

My gas tank has very light rusty haze in some portions.  I hesitate to even mention because it is so light.  I installed a filter a few weeks back from my local Honda dealer (short, fat, steel mesh) to see if that would help (I think paper with finer holes would have been better).  At first had filter horizontal out from petcock about 1-2 inches.  It airlocked and left me stranded.  Redid fuel line and placed it vertical about 0.5 from carb inlet.  That also airlocked as I had a tiny rise in the fuel line.  Getting frustrated.  Plan on removing filter and looking into in take screen replacement.

Any thoghts?  Accel pump issue is never noticable on rides.  Only when doing the "jerk neighbor reving his bike in garage."  Maybe its a sign. 

[steam-powered man]

did this bike sit for some time before you got it?

do all 4 pipes get hot immediately upon starting?

am thinking your idle circuits are clogged on one or more carbs.  these circuits frequently require mechanical action to thoroughly clean them, soaked/compressed air may not do it.  i've had to use a combination of guitar string/carb cleaner/ compressed air before success.

someone (prob TT) posted a nice pic of a carb showing the various circuits, and where carb cleaner spray must exit when sprayed into a particular inlet.  this helped me solve a similar prob. 

if you have not replaced your fuel lines, you need to.  the old rubber lines break down on the inside, clogging your freshly cleaned carbs.

start with a rinsed tank, new fuel lines, a clean fuel filter and cleaned carbs.

[TwoTired]

Well I took the carbs off several times in the past few months to put an end to the accel pump issue.  I think my gaskets may be cutting off the fuel? 

Which gaskets do you suspect?

I've done this 3 times: Take off carbs, remove pump components, inspect all things accel pump and see no problems.  Spray carb cleaner in all pump related parts.  Bench test and see good flow.  Put back on bike, and eventually stops spraying.

Did you verify the check values only allow fuel flow in one direction only?  Otherwise, you have only two options, fuel starvation or fuel blockage.  You'd probably notice the third as external leaking.

My gas tank has very light rusty haze in some portions.  I hesitate to even mention because it is so light.  I installed a filter a few weeks back from my local Honda dealer (short, fat, steel mesh) to see if that would help (I think paper with finer holes would have been better).  At first had filter horizontal out from petcock about 1-2 inches.  It airlocked and left me stranded.  Redid fuel line and placed it vertical about 0.5 from carb inlet.  That also airlocked as I had a tiny rise in the fuel line.  Getting frustrated.  Plan on removing filter and looking into in take screen replacement.

Why can't you rely on the in tank fuel filter?  Honda was able to make it work pretty well.  It will stop anything that can't flow though any of the carb fuel orifices abd out the exhaust pipe.

Any thoghts?  Accel pump issue is never noticable on rides.  Only when doing the "jerk neighbor reving his bike in garage."  Maybe its a sign.

The pump will stop working when the carb bowl is starved for fuel.  Have you tried draining the bowl for content/volume when the pump stops working?

What is it you are doing to get it working on the bench?

[flybox1]

please answer the following so we can help you out with this....process of elimination.
there are 2 gaskets that can block the flow of fuel in this circuit.  one is the oring that sits atop the mating surface of bowl #2.
i fought with this for quite some time 
the other are the holes in the micky mouse ears of the pump diaphragm.  they need to be drilled or reamed out and perfectly clean.
careful, its rubber and will tear easily. 

yes, with your airbox off you should see all accelerator squirters shoot fuel with a ROLL of the throttle.
if you do not,  you need to find out what is blocking that circuit.
Do they all squirt? Y/N?

if NO...drop the accel pump bowl from carb @ 2 and see if the ball check valve  in the bottom of it is blocked.  shoot carb cleaner into the holes on the rim. one is a open passage, the other should shoot up out the bottom.  does it Y/N?
if Yes, set it aside. 


next....check the passages of the pump circuit between carb bodies to the squirters...pull the fuel tubes off and shoot carb cleaner into the nipples.  cleaner should shoot out the pump squirters. does it shoot out of all? Y/N?
if no, clean them with a bit of wire.  something is clogging them.

these interconnecting fuel tubes you just pulled off should have the tiny brass restrictor tubes inside.  if you dont have them, you'll need to fab some.  they look like the ones in the picture below. make sure they are all unclogged.
pull off bowl #2,  be careful of that tiny oring on the lip of the top mating surface of the bowl.  dont lose it.  pull out the accel pump diaphragm.  can you squirt fuel up through the inlet @ the bottom of the accel pump on bowl #2.  its one of those 2 'mickey mouse ear holes" it should shoot out of the tiny valve at the top of the bowl where this tiny oring sits. does it Y/N?

when all these BOLD circuits are clear, your pump should do its job.

[flybox1]

My gas tank has very light rusty haze in some portions.  I hesitate to even mention because it is so light.  I installed a filter a few weeks back from my local Honda dealer (short, fat, steel mesh) to see if that would help (I think paper with finer holes would have been better).  At first had filter horizontal out from petcock about 1-2 inches.  It airlocked and left me stranded.  Redid fuel line and placed it vertical about 0.5 from carb inlet.  That also airlocked as I had a tiny rise in the fuel line.  Getting frustrated.  Plan on removing filter and looking into in take screen replacement.

i would be interested in seeing what comes out of your tank..
give it a good shake and drain it into a glass jar.
I thought i had a clean tank.  not until i fixed my tank debris issues did my pissy carbs and accel pump problems go away    these tiny bits can block accel pump circuit and your float valves.. not good.