Topic: Chronic problem with drive chain slack.

[Ira]

If there's already a thread about type of thing, point me in the right direction...

After a couple hundred miles of riding, my chain is always loose.  I notice this when I'm on long trips most often- I'm pretty much taking slack out of the chain every day.  This past weekend I had a couple 300 mile days, and at the end of each I had to make a couple turns on each tensioner bolt.  It's a 530 non-o-ring chain and the whole drive train is new as of this spring.  I'm applying lube every long riding day as well.  I think the chain line is pretty straight- I'll post a picture if you want.

I adjust to the Clymer manual spec of around an inch of play, but it always ends up with 2-2.5 in the evening.  When it's correct, it does not bind but also doesn't run into my center stand.  When it's too loose, it rubs on the stand. 

I assume this is not normal- what should I be looking for to stop the constant adjustment?

     

[Ira]

I realized after I posted this that someone made the exact same thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=8899.0

Since I already got started though, here are a couple other things: I check my chain while sitting on the seat- to make sure it's not overly tight with the suspension compressed.  I'm using spray lube and cleaning the outside of the chain after application, so it doesn't gather filth.  I'm riding part of my days on the expressway at 70+ probably no more than 100 miles though.  The rest is country roads.

[DJ_AX]

Proper chain maintenance!
... I wasted a chain and a half before I realized the importance of it.
Especially if you ride in the rain or on dirt roads. Clean and oil regularly!
Many threads on it but basically... clean with Kerosine every once and a while and keep lubed well!

Me... I just keep an oil can, a stiff brush, and a rag...
I oil, brush, & wipe every few hundred miles! (after riding, when the chain is warm)
Always... right after riding in rain.

[seanbarney41]

How old is your chain?...these are generally the symptoms that indicate your chain and sprockets are not long for this world.  ...and yes, you do want to replace it before it possibly replaces your engine cases or you.

[MCRider]

How old is your chain?...these are generally the symptoms that indicate your chain and sprockets are not long for this world.  ...and yes, you do want to replace it before it possibly replaces your engine cases or you.

Iin the OP, he did say all was new as of this Spring.

Personally, I am no fan of non-Oring chains. I'm assuming the bike is the CB750 in your signature?  A very good non-Oring chain with proper maintenance will give satisfctory performance. But the maintenance cycle will be what you describe, in my experience.

At this point, check this: On the centerstand, in neutral, press up on the bottom row of the chain to remove ALL slack. Hold this, and at 3:00 oclock on the rear sprocket, grab a pin between thumb and forefinger and pull. If you can see daylight, everything is shot. Time for new (again).

If its not shot, at the rate you are going it soon will be. My suggestion would be to buy new sprockets and give an ORing chain a whirl. It will change your life.  IMO   
PS: You are lubing the inside of the chain too, not just the outside?

[Ira]

The chain and sprockets are a few months old (this spring) and have a couple thousand miles on them.  I trashed the last set through neglect and I want to do better with these, but I'm having the same problems despite regular lubrication and adjustment.

[MCRider]

The chain and sprockets are a few months old (this spring) and have a couple thousand miles on them.  I trashed the last set through neglect and I want to do better with these, but I'm having the same problems despite regular lubrication and adjustment.

Pssst. try what I mentioned... and save up for a ORing chain. You'll go 500 miles between maintenece and that will be limited to a simple spray and wipe.  OCICBW   

[scottly]

What brand of chain?

[Ira]

At this point, check this: On the centerstand, in neutral, press up on the bottom row of the chain to remove ALL slack. Hold this, and at 3:00 oclock on the rear sprocket, grab a pin between thumb and forefinger and pull. If you can see daylight, everything is shot. Time for new (again).

I did this- and I think I'm still safe.  Not great (the link had more play than I expected), but I couldn't see light.  I'll try again tomorrow outside of the garage.

It's an RK standard M530 and the sprockets are JT steel sprockets.

Thanks!

[scottly]

I just remembered a travel log about a guy that bought a bike sight unseen, flew from SoCal to somewhere in the Northwest, and rode it back home. He was plagued with the chain constantly loosening up; it was caused by a stripped adjuster, IIRC. The chain wasn't stretching, the rear wheel was being pulled forward by the tension on the chain.   

[seanbarney41]

oh, here is something else I just thought of...I just noticed you have  a '77 frame with a 75 engine...if nothing has been done to remedy this, your front and rear sprockets are misaligned by 10mm.  I know, cuz I just went through all this putting a 77 motor in my 75 frame this spring.  I'm not sure what the easiest way to fix this is

[shinyribs]

I'm having the same issues. I adjust every 200-300 miles. Just like you,all my parts were new:chain and both sprockets. If I just putt around then my chain can go as far as 500 miles before needing adjustment,but if I ride it as hard as I usually do then I'm back to the 200-300 miles adjustments. People tell me to use an o-ring chain as a cure for this also,but my question is "why?". Do o-ring chains not stretch as much? . I can't see an o-ring chain being the cure. Sure, having the internal lubed sealed inside the o-rings is great,but my chain is stretching and I dont think it is a lack of the o-ring causing it to stretch. I hope you/we can find a good answer to this. Good luck and happy chain tightening!

FTR- Mine is a '76F with original engine and about 7,000 miles on steel sprockets and an EK 530 non-o-ring chain

[MCRider]

I'm having the same issues. I adjust every 200-300 miles. Just like you,all my parts were new:chain and both sprockets. If I just putt around then my chain can go as far as 500 miles before needing adjustment,but if I ride it as hard as I usually do then I'm back to the 200-300 miles adjustments. People tell me to use an o-ring chain as a cure for this also,but my question is "why?". Do o-ring chains not stretch as much? . I can't see an o-ring chain being the cure. Sure, having the internal lubed sealed inside the o-rings is great,but my chain is stretching and I dont think it is a lack of the o-ring causing it to stretch. I hope you/we can find a good answer to this. Good luck and happy chain tightening!

FTR- Mine is a '76F with original engine and about 7,000 miles on steel sprockets and an EK 530 non-o-ring chain

Just to be clear, we all know that chains don't really "stretch"? They wear. That is, where the pin of one link passes thru the bushing in the roller of another link, there is friction. Over time the bushing will "ovalize", that is become an oval shape. This allows the chain to grow in length, hence the misnomer "stretching". This area is hidden from view. It is the area that you hope to get chain lube into when you lube up. It is the area that is permanently lubed in an ORing chain and the ORings hold it in. Virtually failsafe. Occasional, and i mean very occasionally an ORing will fail and that pin will lose its lube. I can't impress upon you how rare this is.

A well maintained non-Oring chain can compete with a poorly maintained ORing chain. Granted. But at this point I've got other things to do than be OCD on a chain.

IF your chain is "stretching" it is atually wearing at the pin bushing interface. Once it starts to wear, it can only get worse.

[MCRider]

oh, here is something else I just thought of...I just noticed you have  a '77 frame with a 75 engine...if nothing has been done to remedy this, your front and rear sprockets are misaligned by 10mm.  I know, cuz I just went through all this putting a 77 motor in my 75 frame this spring.  I'm not sure what the easiest way to fix this is

Good catch! I think he would need a sprocket carrier (and it's attendant spacer) from a pre 77 as well.

[shinyribs]

Thank you MC Rider. What you explained makes perfect sense and is totally different than what I thought was happening. I really appreciate the thorough explanation,seriously. Looks like it's time for a chain!

[madmtnmotors]

oh, here is something else I just thought of...I just noticed you have  a '77 frame with a 75 engine...if nothing has been done to remedy this, your front and rear sprockets are misaligned by 10mm.  I know, cuz I just went through all this putting a 77 motor in my 75 frame this spring.  I'm not sure what the easiest way to fix this is

Good catch! I think he would need a sprocket carrier (and it's attendant spacer) from a pre 77 as well.

+1... Make sure your 75' engine sprocket lines up with your 77' rear wheel sprocket.

[andy750]

If you dont like adjusting your non-oring chain all the time or carrying around a bunch of kerosene and oil to wipe it clean then spend the extra few $$s and get an RK or EK or DID or Tsubaki o-ring or x-ring chain. Less maintenance per mile, and very easy to take care of - use spray on lube and you are good for 500-1000 miles depending on how you ride. Easy!

(this applies to CB750s only!)

cheers
Andy (running o-rings and x-ring chains for 20 yrs

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Cheap chain with low tensile strength. Old worn out chain. Incorrect tightening. Just the potential issues we usually see.

After you make sure the alignment is correct flip for a good chain. Only downside is that good chains are expensive BUT WORTH IT! You may spend $150 on a good chain but it will outlast 3 cheap chains, it won't break and cause a wreck or busted cases and those every ride adjustments will be a thing of the past. Also once you make your adjustment be sure to rotate the rear wheel and check the play all the way through 1 full rotation. If it has tight areas you could have a bent sprocket etc. These tight areas will cause it to stretch. If it tightens up once you snug the axle bolt it will then stretch to loosen itself also.

[lucky]

If you dont like adjusting your non-oring chain all the time or carrying around a bunch of kerosene and oil to wipe it clean then spend the extra few $$s and get an RK or EK or DID or Tsubaki o-ring or x-ring chain. Less maintenance per mile, and very easy to take care of - use spray on lube and you are good for 500-1000 miles depending on how you ride. Easy!

(this applies to CB750s only!)

cheers
Andy (running o-rings and x-ring chains for 20 yrs

Kerosene and oil!!!!  Got to be kidding!!!!!

The modern chain lubes like PJ, you apply and leave overnight.
The lube goes into the rollers and coagulates. It does not fly off.

When people tell these kind of scare stories to try to get you to be like them it is usually this obvious that they are ignorant of the facts.

I still use a normal #530 chain with master link and have no problems.
IF you want a O ring chain that is YOUR choice but do not try to persuade people to your side by telling them you have to carry kerosene and rags around!!!!

[andy750]

I was being facetious Lucky with a touch of sarcasm based on a comment further up in the thread Dont take it so personally.

Use whatever chain works for you. You know my preference.
cheers
Andy

[Ira]

Ok, to recap here- I have a new (this season) non-o-ring chain and sprockets, both of decent quality.  I oil the chain every 200 miles or so with spray lube.  I don't over-tighten the chain (I check slack while sitting on the seat after adjusting it).


The solutions I've got so far are:

1) Replace the chain with an o-ring chain.  Upgrading technology makes sense, but the original spec chain should still work if maintained, right?

2) I'm doing a poor job of maintenance.  This is a possibility.  However, I've been making a point not to over-tighten the chain or let it get dry or dirty, so I'd be interested to know what else you guys are doing.  I understand the basic concepts of keeping the inside lubed and the outside clean.     

3) My chain alignment is incorrect.  I'll have to look into this further, read some threads, etc. 
 

[scottly]

When people tell these kind of scare stories to try to get you to be like them it is usually this obvious that they are ignorant of the facts.

It's a conspiracy, man. Honda started it in 1980 to force PJ1 out of business. It back-fired when it turned out the o-ring chains still needed lube on the outside.

[shinyribs]

I was thinking about this today while shopping for a new chain: if chains dont actually stretch,then why do they sell pre-stretched chains? Not trying to be a smart aleck here. Honest question.

Not trying to hi-jack your thread bud, just trying to figure it out since we're in the same boat here

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Ira, It's about your chain's tensile strength! What brand and model? Let's do some comparisons. I just bought a Tsubaki Sigma o-ringer for my restore but my "old" one is fine and it will go on my build I'll do with all the take off parts from my restore. IMO that's the more important stat vs o-ring/non o-ring. Two totally different subjects. O-rings keep the insides of a chain cleaner and lubed better at least initially. Has nothing to do with how strong a chain is. What is the tensile strength of your "decent quality" chain? Mine are running above 11,000 lb. I rarely have to adjust my chain now that I've used a high tensile strength chain. (it is o-ring fwiw) That was NOT the case when I couldn't afford a high quality chain which happened on several occasions throughout the last 37 years. I found I had to make adjustments after a week or so. It stretched so bad it didn't last. What a PITA too. Finally broke. What I have yet to mention is that I am was 812 with cam and my right wrist twists it up very regularly which puts more stress on a chain than a stock bike that's not ridden hard. It was rated at 67hp before kitting it. It is now 900 with much more serious stuff inside.

Lucky, in case you didn't get it the kerosene is for cleaning not lubricating. You can just keep it in the garage, you don't need to take it with you. Cleaning and lubing are not required as often for an o-ring chain. Andy knows what he's talking about.

The "stretching" is most likely due to the holes becoming elongated and/or the pins wearing down thus making the distance between the pins larger vs the side plates stretching. I'd sure like for them to explain their pre-stretching. Marketing tool perhaps? Lucky, what's your take on this?

[MCRider]

I was thinking about this today while shopping for a new chain: if chains dont actually stretch,then why do they sell pre-stretched chains? Not trying to be a smart aleck here. Honest question.

Not trying to hi-jack your thread bud, just trying to figure it out since we're in the same boat here

I've been around this for a while. And there is a respectable forum member who claims this is legit, (prestretching) so I'll be openminded. But i don't get it either.