Author Topic: How to fix broken float post?  (Read 21839 times)

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Offline twallace

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How to fix broken float post?
« on: August 06, 2012, 08:35:35 PM »
So I had this great idea to clean my carbs even though my bike ran pretty good. All went well until I got to the second carb and found a broken float post that someone had epoxied or something. Picked off the epoxy and the post fell off. Is there a way to get these welded back on or should I be looking for a new carb body?

Offline scottly

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 08:43:45 PM »
Contact fellow member Jim F. :)
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 10:22:37 PM »
It can be repaired: if you end up not doing that, I have some bodies from a fellow Canadien from a set of carbs that I have been struggling to piece together (from many), might have the right one left over?
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Offline twallace

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 07:07:26 AM »
Thanks HondaMan. Even if you don't have the right one I really appreciate the offer. Nice to know there are still some kind people out there.

The carb in question is from a cb550K1 and its the carb 1 in from the left or the one that connects to the carb with the choke lever. Is this considered #2?

Happy to pay for shipping if you have it and will someday return the favor.

Terry

Offline 2wheels

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.
1970 CB750 K0 (I can't believe I tossed my duck tail seat in the trash 30 years ago)

Offline twallace

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 10:42:04 AM »
They used plenty of it. I picked off gobs of loose JB Weld. It held together since I bought the bike 2 years ago. Just worried that the same thing will happen if I use JB Weld. I've read mixed reports but most people say the new gas with ethanol breaks down the JB Weld in pretty short order.

Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 10:50:48 AM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.

YEs but I would drill a hole in both parts and put a stainless pin or steel pin ( NOT brass!) connecting the parts so it is not totally reliant on the epoxy.
A broken off old drill bit always works.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:52:21 AM by lucky »

Offline 2wheels

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 10:53:42 AM »
"I've read mixed reports but most people say the new gas with ethanol breaks down the JB Weld in pretty short order. "

Could be and thats good to know.  I find gas stations that don't have ethanol.  Both for the bike and the snow mobile.  There are lots of gas stations in Ontario that don't have ethanol.
1970 CB750 K0 (I can't believe I tossed my duck tail seat in the trash 30 years ago)

Offline ncstatecamp

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How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 12:26:56 PM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.

YEs but I would drill a hole in both parts and put a stainless pin or steel pin ( NOT brass!) connecting the parts so it is not totally reliant on the epoxy.
A broken off old drill bit always works.

Why not brass? Just curious

Offline mjstone

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 01:23:00 PM »
It's not the amount of JB that is needed, it's how clean the surface is before it's applied.  I found  a broken float post on my #1 carb from my '73 CB500.  I used JB to fix it.  After a couple of days to let it set up good, I dunked it in a can of Berryman's Carb cleaner for 30 minutes.  Didn't affect the JB at all.  Clean it up real good, use a file or sandpaper and get it real shinny and then ruff it up a little so  that the JB has something to grip.

MJ
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Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 01:29:13 PM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.

YEs but I would drill a hole in both parts and put a stainless pin or steel pin ( NOT brass!) connecting the parts so it is not totally reliant on the epoxy.
A broken off old drill bit always works.

Why not brass? Just curious


Not brass, because the worst corrosion potential is between brass and aluminum.
On the galvanic scale it is more than a 30pt. difference.

Offline Bailgang

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 02:06:33 PM »
I broke the float post on a set of carbs before too due to me getting hasty (lesson learned) but fortunately I have a bro in-law that is a fantastic TIG welder that came to my rescue.
Scott


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Offline scottly

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 02:17:56 PM »
Check out J B weld's website and see what they say regarding its use with gasoline....
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline liPPy

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 02:28:11 PM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.

YEs but I would drill a hole in both parts and put a stainless pin or steel pin ( NOT brass!) connecting the parts so it is not totally reliant on the epoxy.
A broken off old drill bit always works.

Why not brass? Just curious


Not brass, because the worst corrosion potential is between brass and aluminum.
On the galvanic scale it is more than a 30pt. difference.


Carb bodies are not made from pure aluminium so not a concern. Unless I'm mistaken carb jets are brass. They seem to survive okay...

Offline TwoTired

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 02:31:11 PM »
Brass is fine inside carbs and has been used in carbs for close to a century.  Unless, you are going to fill them with electrolyte, of course.  But, a simple coating of gasoline will block galvanic activity.

Has anybody noticed that the jets and other parts inside the carbs are brass ?  My god, think of the danger in that!

Rumors & myths!  Start yours today!
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 02:31:54 PM »
Well, my bad: I have only 750-size carbs around. Sorry!

If I were fixing it: I would make a tiny collar (piece of tubing) that would hold a small punch concentric-ly on the diameter of the 2 pieces, punch them, and drill them with a real small drill. Then I would tap in a stiff wire (piano wire?) to the upper piece, apply some JB Weld Aluminum, and tap the upper piece down into position on the lower one and let it set up overnight.

If the holes for the float pin come out a little bit "off" afterward, you can use the good one as a pilot and drill into the JB one to match up the holes. Then, drill the damaged one a slightly larger size, put some grease on the float pin, and dab some more JB Weld into the hole and slide the greased pin into the holes, let it set up overnight again. Then tap out the pin, rub the affected end a little with some fine emery paper to make it slightly smaller as to fit easily into the JB Weld hole, and put it all back together (and adjust the float height).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 04:39:41 PM »
JB weld works fine.

My snow mobile has a repair like that and it's been good for years now.
It has a big globe of glue,  Your post repair looks like JB weld, they just didn't use enough.

YEs but I would drill a hole in both parts and put a stainless pin or steel pin ( NOT brass!) connecting the parts so it is not totally reliant on the epoxy.
A broken off old drill bit always works.

Why not brass? Just curious


Not brass, because the worst corrosion potential is between brass and aluminum.
On the galvanic scale it is more than a 30pt. difference.


Carb bodies are not made from pure aluminium so not a concern. Unless I'm mistaken carb jets are brass. They seem to survive okay...

Thats the point. One metal sacrifices itself to protect the other metal. In this case the aluminum based metal wastes away leaving the brass in good shape.

Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 04:43:53 PM »
Brass is fine inside carbs and has been used in carbs for close to a century.  Unless, you are going to fill them with electrolyte, of course.  But, a simple coating of gasoline will block galvanic activity.

Has anybody noticed that the jets and other parts inside the carbs are brass ?  My god, think of the danger in that!

Rumors & myths!  Start yours today!

If you look closely at some of the other carb rebuilding pics on this site you will see that the float towers are severely damaged from corrosion. Yes they have fuel now that has ethanol and that was not in the plans when these carbs were first manufactured.
It will not happen overnight, and I know you are trying to belittle me again, but it is something to consider anytime you  have dissimilar metals .

You may notice that the new replacement floats from HONDA are made using stainless now. Also The floats are plastic and not brass.

One other thing.
The early 1969 carbs did not use brass screws they used aluminum for the vacuum ports, and chrome steel or aluminum for the float bowl drains.

Start looking at where the corrosion is on the Honda carbs. It is not where the steel screws are located in the aluminum It is always near the float posts and main jet holder tube.

EXAMPLE:
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 05:05:21 PM by lucky »

Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »
The JB Weld website: recommends the JB weld STICK for submerged repairs in gas.


Thanks SCOTTLY!

Quote:
J-B STIK
Part No. 8267-S

Description:

"J-B Stik Weld is a hand kneadable, steel-reinforced epoxy putty adhesive/sealant tha will plug holes and make permanent repairs on wet and dry surfaces. It will even cure completely submerged in water or GASOLINE! Simply knead thoroughly, with your fingers, a portion necessary for the repair and apply. J-B Stik will fully cure 20-30 minutes; and can be drilled, sanded, filed, tapped, machined, and painted. J-B Stik requires no tools or "prep time", and makes no mess."

Offline scottly

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 05:49:34 PM »
My experience with the putty is that while it works well for plugging leaks, it doesn't work very well for gluing stuff together. In other words, it doesn't stick worth a #$%*. In the pic the carb doesn't look to be corroded at all, so it would be a good candidate for welding. I PM'd Jim; hopefully he will chime in here.
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Offline scottly

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 06:09:51 PM »
Jim pm'd me back; here is a link:
www.jmfmicroweld.com
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 06:13:18 PM »
It will not happen overnight, and I know you are trying to belittle me again, but it is something to consider anytime you  have dissimilar metals .
It's NOT the metals alone that must be considered.  It is the metals plus electrolyte.  No electrolyte, no corrosion.
I'm not trying to belittle you personally, at all.  But, your position statement is basically flawed and requires correction.  I suspect it is from a lack of proper understanding regarding elemental chemistry.  Or, perhaps you've been misinformed.

Also The floats are plastic and not brass.
The 550 has plastic floats molded to brass pivots.  Some of the new floats are completely plastic.  But, you haven't a shred of evidence this was done to combat corrosion.  I suspect it was a cost reduction measure.  You only seem to have speculation and myth with no supportive applicable science.

Start looking at where the corrosion is on the Honda carbs. It is not where the steel screws are located in the aluminum It is always near the float posts and main jet holder tube.

EXAMPLE:
...Yet your example picture has even corrosion deposits all over the carb body internals in pretty even distribution.

Galvanic action is distance critical.  Meaning the shorter the distance between the dissimilar metals, the more activity results depending on the resistivity of the electrolyte.  In fact, your picture demonstrates that the corrosion observed was not particularly associated with the brass components.  It is NOT the result of galvanic action between brass and carb body alloy.  More likely the water (the electrolyte), oxygen, from the atmospheric vents, disuse, and neglect was far more likely to be cause of the white zinc oxide deposits shown (converted from the zinc in the alloy bodies).

Since impure water (electrolyte) with dissolved oxygen collects at the bottom of the bowls, the (towers) are deprived of high resistance and protective gasoline  at that carb body location.  This leads to more corrosive activity at that location first.  While the brass does not help matters, it is NOT the primary cause of corrosion.  And specifically not a factor at the top of the fuel bowl reservoir as you suggest with your example picture.


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Offline MRieck

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2012, 05:52:21 AM »
Jim has micro welded a post for me...it is a permanent fix.
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Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 11:10:25 AM »
Jim has micro welded a post for me...it is a permanent fix.

Can we see a photo?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2012, 03:57:56 PM »
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline NewOldSchool

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 05:30:46 PM »
"I've read mixed reports but most people say the new gas with ethanol breaks down the JB Weld in pretty short order. "

Could be and thats good to know.  I find gas stations that don't have ethanol.  Both for the bike and the snow mobile.  There are lots of gas stations in Ontario that don't have ethanol.

Patched a pinhole in my tank with JB weld two years and 16,000 miles ago. No leak, and I live in CA where all  our gas is 5.7% ethanol.
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Offline RatBikeRandy

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 06:42:04 PM »
I drilled a tiny hole in post and body then cut very short length of paperclip.  Using the "new" paperclip post strengthener I JB Welded every thing back together.  Still holding after 5 years.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 10:26:13 PM »
"I've read mixed reports but most people say the new gas with ethanol breaks down the JB Weld in pretty short order. "

Could be and thats good to know.  I find gas stations that don't have ethanol.  Both for the bike and the snow mobile.  There are lots of gas stations in Ontario that don't have ethanol.

Patched a pinhole in my tank with JB weld two years and 16,000 miles ago. No leak, and I live in CA where all  our gas is 5.7% ethanol.

I'm jealous! Ours is 10% minimum.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2012, 10:58:06 PM »
California has a state mandate to blend ethanol with all the gas sold in the state.  If the pumps are labeled, not all are, they say up to 10% may be blended.  When I asked the station manager just how much ethanol was in the fuel, he didn't know, and wouldn't find out.  Three different stations behaved this way.  Basically, you buy whatever they offer, whatever it is.  Customer satisfaction has absolutely no meaning to the gas distribution industry.  Instead consumers are treated like addicts seeking a desparate fix.  (Which isn't too far from the truth.)  The drug can be "cut" with whatever, and however the dealer sees fit.  The consumer generally has no concept of quality product.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline scottly

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2012, 11:25:17 PM »
The non-political, ethanol-proof repair has already been mentioned:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=111096.0
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline 2wheels

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 04:41:02 AM »
"They used plenty of it. I picked off gobs of loose JB Weld."

So you picked it off?  Was it soft and falling apart?  Just wondering.
Also I don't see any sand paper marks on the post.  The glue will not stick well to parts that have not been sanded or roughed up somehow.
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Offline 72_350_FOUR

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 06:30:54 AM »
Dont even mess with it, just send it Jim, he fixed mine and it's perfect.
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Offline lucky

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 07:29:03 AM »

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 10:18:05 AM »
Met Jim at his home/shop this past month. That micro laser welder is the real #$%*!! His build is pretty badass too  ;) Not to mention he's a helluva nice guy.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline mycb750k6

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 06:22:21 PM »
What carb body do you need? I've got lots!!! If I have what you need, it's yours no problem. Just PM me.
And what's with the stupid can't use brass in carbs crap. There's no end to the misinformation. Seems like the insides of my carbs have brass parts. I better tell Honda to knock it off. ::)

Offline Hush

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2012, 03:49:14 AM »
What about hairline cracks in the actual bowl themselves?
Anyone got a fix for that, can I just rough up the whole base and spread JB over it, will that hold?
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline mjstone

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Re: How to fix broken float post?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2012, 04:20:45 PM »
Should work just fine, Hush. 

MJ
1972 CB500Four (Honda)
1973 CB500Four (Oliver)