Author Topic: simple diagnosis?  (Read 4287 times)

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Offline lucky

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 02:57:11 PM »
if you think it has stock ignition as far as you kinow and youve had this bike for a year i think its about time you removed the points cover and find out?
Thanks for smart-a$$ comment, but it isnt needed here, try another thread, maybe someone else will like being treated like an idiot while trying to get help and learn something, i dont.  I know what kind of ignition my bike has, i just dont know if the points are stock or aftermarket, now for those who are actually trying to help, heres whats happened so far....

First i drained and flushed the tank.  There was some debris/ rust flakes in there, but the filter was clean.  The flakes most likely came from the underside of the gas cap, as the tank has been sealed with caswell kit.  (putting cleaning underside of lid on my to do list.) 

I pulled the plugs, i didnt get a pic, but they looked like the bike was running a bit rich, but they werent too bad, cleaned them and put them back... didnt help

Pulled off points cover and checked gaps, they were off, but not much.  reset them to .014 plus or minus a thousandth... didnt help

Re-timed ignition using timing strobe... didnt help

Replaced both coils with spares... didnt help

Replaced all 4 spark plugs... didnt help

Pulled the carbs (twice actually).  Jets were dirty, and turns out were oversized (110 instead of 105).  Must be because PO had pods on when i bought the bike, but i switched to stock box.  This also explains why the bike was running rich i suppose.  Cleaned the carbs, put in 105 mains, set screws to 1.75 turns out per the manual as a starting point.  Cant get the things tuned because the bike still wont idle steady or long enough.

Bike is still running rough and fluctuating RPMS at idle, but it does start and run now, so i guess i am getting somewhere cause it would hardly do that before, it just doesnt want to run well.  plus i am getting pretty good at pulling and re-installing my carbs (push-pull cables are a pain to get on) quickly.

The only thing i am still weary about is the points.  How much spark am i supposed to be seeing between the contack points when they are open?  1-4 is sparking quite a bit, whereas 2-3 is sparking hardly at all.  I still have spark at the plugs, but it seems wrong for them to not be sparking equally.  Do i need to replace and start again from there?

Total cost so far... $11 bux for 4 D8EA plugs, and a crap load of frustration burning my hands tring to adjust the carbs... seriously... who put the adjusters on the bottom?!  Not to mention the PO had a serious over-tightening problem, thank god for impact drivers.

I do not feel like that comment was a smart ass comment. He stated the facts.
He is asking you a question.

QUOTE: "as far as you kinow and youve had this bike for a year i think its about time you removed the points cover and find out?"

I believe the comment was honest and that you do need to find out some of the info on the bike since you are asking forum members for their opinion.

Some mechanics would not be that nice. They would just say, "When you find out what you have, then comeback and we can help you.?


About the points....
Quote:

"The only thing i am still weary about is the points.  How much spark am i supposed to be seeing between the contack points when they are open?  1-4 is sparking quite a bit, whereas 2-3 is sparking hardly at all.  I still have spark at the plugs, but it seems wrong for them to not be sparking equally.  Do i need to replace and start again from there??

What matters with the points is that they are not burned with a mound on one contact face and a hole on the other contact face. The gap must be correct and they must start to open at the correct time. They must have the minimum amount of dwell.
They are not like spark plugs.
The job of the points is NOT to produce spark. The function of the points is to open and release the field of energy to the spark plugs at the right time.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 03:11:59 PM by lucky »

Offline HonderCB

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 03:02:50 PM »
this misunderstanding is over lucky, thanks for your concern, though.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

77' CB750F
81' CB650C - SOLD

Offline lucky

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2012, 03:08:09 PM »
this misunderstanding is over lucky, thanks for your concern, though.

Yes... on the internet misunderstandings can occur.
A therapist told me one time that if a person does not want to hear a complaint,
that they have no courage and you do not want to hang out with them.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 03:10:11 PM by lucky »

Offline HonderCB

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2012, 03:29:46 PM »
your therapist sounds smart.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

77' CB750F
81' CB650C - SOLD

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2012, 10:21:49 PM »
Quote
haha RR, if your not here to help then you have no business.  kindly stay away.

I was helping my mate Dave, who just happens to be one of the more knowledgeable guys around here ....  Public forum dude..
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline HonderCB

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2012, 09:36:34 AM »
Quote
haha RR, if your not here to help then you have no business.  kindly stay away.

I was helping my mate Dave, who just happens to be one of the more knowledgeable guys around here ....  Public forum dude..

Your right, he is, as are you.  However, Dave didnt need your help.  We had a misunderstanding, i appologized for it, its over, we are fine now.  Thats how mature adults handle things when they have problems.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

77' CB750F
81' CB650C - SOLD

Offline HonderCB

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »
What matters with the points is that they are not burned with a mound on one contact face and a hole on the other contact face. The gap must be correct and they must start to open at the correct time. They must have the minimum amount of dwell.
They are not like spark plugs.
The job of the points is NOT to produce spark. The function of the points is to open and release the field of energy to the spark plugs at the right time.

Thanks Lucky, this is a great description.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

77' CB750F
81' CB650C - SOLD

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2012, 04:07:19 PM »

[/quote]

  Thats how mature adults handle things when they have problems.
[/quote]

Good to see it sorted, that approach above would have helped at the start = no sh1t fight.... ;D ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline USCG_C130

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2013, 03:29:43 PM »
Honder-

i just went through this exact same issue and was curious about the big sparks between my points, one set has alot of spark and the other didnt.  this confirmed what i was looking for. but i, like you, did everything before i looked at the condensers, so i replaced one which i found bad and still the same issue, after 2 days of trouble shooting turns out they both were bad and now tomorrow i will be buying another and hoping to get it back on the road and entered in a small local bike show on the 2nd.
 
but i did fuel and timing and all new plugs plus several other things before i replaced my condensers and what a PINA it has been, but thatnks for this write up it gave me a little insight, i wont be making this mistake again ill be sure to have an extra set of condensers laying around.

Offline HonderCB

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Re: simple diagnosis?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2013, 05:54:34 PM »
Glad my pain was able to help you out!

Rather than keeping around extra condensers I ended up swapping out the points system for a DynaS electronic ignition the following winter.  It works great, was simple to install, and I don't have to worry about about it.  Lack of quality OEM points parts was a contributing factor as well.  Seems like every set I found were the cheap Chinese ones that were notorious for having problems, so I spent $110-ish dollars on Ebay to buy the DynaS and haven't looked back.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

77' CB750F
81' CB650C - SOLD