Topic: electric starter issue, video [update x 2/3/4]

[nccb]

here is a clip of the play in the starter gear.  Thanks for all your help scottly, i'm going to need to ship you a case of beer when this is all through
clip 2012 08 11 12;49;11

[LesterPiglet]

I wouldn't expect any play in that shaft at all.

[scottly]

That's a HUGE amount of play! That's what caused the broken gear teeth; when the starter is engaged, the two gears are trying to move away from each other, and that much play is almost as much as the depth of the gear teeth. The snout doesn't appear to be moving, so it looks like a bad bearing. Also, spin the shaft and see if it appears to be bent, although it might be hard to tell with that much play. 

[nccb]

when I spin it it seems pretty smooth.  I put a light on it and none of the teeth are broken like the reduction gear.  There are some scratches but they all seem pretty minor.

[nccb]

found some teeth. . . also is that the bearing behind the shaft? rubbed off some of those little globs and it looks like graphite or really emulsified metal shavings and oil.

[nccb]

forgot the pics

[nccb]

just so I don't get to ahead of myself.  Now that I need to remove the starter motor I will need to remove the cam chain tensioner.  I don't have the rotor off yet and I have read that the engine shouldn't turn when it is off.  This is probably answering my own question but should I wait to remove the tensioner until AFTER I have removed and replaced the rotor?

[scottly]

After seeing the damage to the reduction gear caused by the worn-out starter, and watching (and listening to) the first video several times, I don't think I would bother with pulling the rotor. You may want to check the starter clutch by turning the big gear a few degrees clockwise, then turn it counter-clockwise to feel how it locks up. Do this over at least one full turn of the gear, and also inspect the teeth for damage, in case one of the broken teeth got caught in between the two gears.
When you remove the chain tension-er, have the motor in the position where you set the tension. Also, while you have it off, make sure the plunger moves freely with the set bolt backed off: the spring should push it out. 

[nccb]

Update:

F&#& that god d@&* rotor.  Got the puller today and thought "Oh, this will be easy now!" -Hell No!

Also, I have a new reduction gear and starter motor on the way curtesy of Dake and a gasket for the cam chain tensioner when I pull it off.

[nccb]

Does anyone have any pointers for removing the rotor?  I inserted the puller and have been hitting it with a hammer; rotating; hitting it some more.  I have tried also hitting the outside of the rotor, putting something inbetween the hammer and rotor so as not to cause damage as well.  I am about to give up trying to take it off and just hope the rollers,springs, and caps are good but thought I would try and take it off since its accessible and I have the parts for it. 

If I can't get it off today I am just going to put the retainer bolt back in and if it has problems ride it 40 miles to get a professional to take it off.

[bollingball]

Does anyone have any pointers for removing the rotor?  I inserted the puller and have been hitting it with a hammer; rotating; hitting it some more.  I have tried also hitting the outside of the rotor, putting something inbetween the hammer and rotor so as not to cause damage as well.  I am about to give up trying to take it off and just hope the rollers,springs, and caps are good but thought I would try and take it off since its accessible and I have the parts for it. 

If I can't get it off today I am just going to put the retainer bolt back in and if it has problems ride it 40 miles to get a professional to take it off.

Once you get the tool on real tight put a air hammer with a dull point chisel on the end in the center the vibration will knock it right off easy.

[nccb]

Ok, thats what I was curious about as well.  How tight should I get it?  I had it on there pretty good and am Scared I will strip something.  The puller is long enough that it should be able to technically thread through the whole rotor.  Should I try and keep tightening it until it just pushes it off the tapered shaft?

[lucky]

There should be no play in that starter shaft.
You will need to take it out.

[nccb]

There should be no play in that starter shaft.
You will need to take it out.

I am, got another one coming.  Problem now is whther I replace the starter clutch parts or hope that it is good for when I put another reduction gear and starter motor in it.  In my life things happen one of two ways; if I fix it I wouldn't have needed to, if I don't fix it it will break.  I go with fix it but can't get rotor off. . .

[scottly]

I would just do the test of the starter clutch I described in my last post, and if it feels OK, I wouldn't bother with pulling the rotor. Make sure you get the rotor bolt tightened properly, or the rotor will come lose and just spin on the crank.

[nccb]

I would just do the test of the starter clutch I described in my last post, and if it feels OK, I wouldn't bother with pulling the rotor. Make sure you get the rotor bolt tightened properly, or the rotor will come lose and just spin on the crank.

I took out the starter motor today in preparation for the "new" one.  It wasn't as difficult as I was thinking.  I took of the tensioner and inspected it to make sure the plunger and spring still function and it did, which was a relieve because I was wondering if I was actually doing anything when I tightened it.  Then I took a small, stubby flat head and put it in the end near the shaft and pried up and out on that while I lifted up on the back end, easy peasy. 

When I took it apart, there wasn't a whole lot of carbon build up and the brushes at least appeared to be good.  I couldn't get to the bearing that would help stabilize the shaft because I was scared of tearing the o-ring or whatever that is thats holding this very small coil, which I inadvertently freed from its retainer. Now its just a matter of waiting till about wednesday for the other to arrive.  Is there anything I should look at while its disassembled or that I should check on the new motor? I'll post pics of the old one a little later.  The teeth on the shaft did have some wear and grooves in the teeth.

[nccb]

well guys. . . .

























YOU DID IT! Thanks for all of the help!  I got the starter and reduction gear today and examind the one I got to make sure there was no play and that the brushes were good.  The brushes were worn a lot more than the ones I had and the cable was cut so I just reused my housing and installed it.  I was scared to turn it on at first and I was having issues at first getting it back in neutral as I had it in 5th for the past week but I dropped it to the side stand and it most have jossled it and I got it in and it fired right up.  I was amazed at how much quieter it was starting with the electric start!  This is my first bike and when I got it it was always loud when I used the electric start but now it sounds so smooth I just never noticed!  Thanks for all your help and especially you Scottly

[scottly]

You're welcome!