Topic: bolt drilling

[cobra]

I am getting ready to start my build now, i have a lot of bolt heads to drill for lockwire, does anybody know if anyone manufactures a jig for doing this job, or a method of doing it without snapping off the tip of the bit.

[vfourfreak]

Demon Tweeks stock a jig by Gunson : http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1657&p=174977&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Workshop%20Equipment&gclid=COyBxMfHsrMCFebLtAod9AoArg

It seems a bit pricey to me but there you go. Lock wiring eh, going racing ??

Kev

[turboguzzi]

tips?

use cobalt bits
try drilling 2mm rather than the usual 1.6mm  1/16"

in allen bolts what usual breaks the drill is when you break through the wall and the bit hits the opposite side of the socket.... do it with a press drill and limit the depth so that doesnt happen

last, i only do the minimum required by rules, rest is taken care of by nylocks and loctite. in italy it means only the oil drain plug, center bolt for filter and filling plug. all the rest is optional here. 

unless its a brit bike that's shaking itself to pieces i  find it hard to justify overdoing it, inline fours hardly shake their fasteners open.
safety wiring unnecessary stuff only slows you down when you need to service the part.

[lordmoonpie]

I am getting ready to start my build now, i have a lot of bolt heads to drill for lockwire, does anybody know if anyone manufactures a jig for doing this job, or a method of doing it without snapping off the tip of the bit.

Tony, you can get a cheaper drill jig from chromosome engineering supplies and I think machine mart also do one. I have one but have never used it after the first time, in m experience they are harder to use than not using one at all. I simply clam the bolt/nut in a vice, centre punch it and then as TG says, use a 2mm drill bit in a drill press to perform the necessary drilling. TG is also right in that you want to do the minimum ness you're going to the Isle of Man that will be oil drain bolts and rear spindle pretty much. Iom demands much more like caliper bolts etc hat aren't required for short circuit riding on the rest of the uk. If you get really stuck there was at least one stainless supplier on eBay selling per drilled bolts but at a significant cost uplift...

[voxonda]

After years of scrutineering, at World SBK and Dutch Naional level, I am convinced that lockwiring is a very good thing. If it isn't for locking itself it is a way to determine that, important, parts have been looked after.
On more than one occasion, during, drizzling weather and while performing wheelchanges for rain.dry weather tyres and vise versa, people tend to forget things. Am all for lockwiring.

[turboguzzi]

After years of scrutineering, atWorld SBK and Dutch Naional level, I am convinced that lockwiring is a very good thing. If it isn't for locking itself it is a way to determine that, important, parts have been looked after.
On more than one occasion, during, drizzling weather and while performing wheelchanges for rain.dry weather tyres and vise versa, people tend to forget things. Am all for lockwiring.

hei rob, i should have added the usual "IMHO" to my comment.  guess it's a bit like oil brands, everyone has their own logic... I know for instance one canadian guy who just seems to love lockwiring. hint hint.

That said, and as much as i believe you've seen plenty of works bikes from close up, be honest, wheels, calipers, discs are all often changed at the last moment in motogp and WSBK, sometimes right on the starting grid. these are the super safety related items and yet i never ever seen anybody safety wiring them.... ditto in endurance racing where fast wheel changing is super important.

I do agree that seeing a bolt that's safety wired is a good proof its been tightened,

[754]

 Use good splitpoint stub drills..

[bwaller]

Hey my ears are burning.

Actually I didn't lockwire any more than what is asked for in the rule book (plus drilled without a jig) If it's drilled and not necessary to lockwire, think of all the weight you've removed!  It is a nuisance re wiring every damn thing though.

[voxonda]

To each his own, but once you have witnessed a deadly accident from upclose, think one would re-consider. Ducati lost front caliper(s) at the end of old back straight on Assen. Accident involving well-known Endurance team in practise when rear wheel nut came off, luckily at end of pit. There are more examples, like oillines coming loos and covered reartyre in oil with very heavy crash as result.
I do not state it is in the rules but imo it should. And remember these are/where very well trained machanics.

[turboguzzi]

OK rob, convinced, so what do the motogp/wsbk rules require in terms of lockwiring?\\

[NickO]

OK rob, convinced, so what do the motogp/wsbk rules require in terms of lockwiring?\\

The riders wrists to the clip-ons!

[mec]

i am with TG.

cause when a screw is lockwired, this does not mean inevitably that it is tightened.
when you reassemble a bike, tighten all screws to its specific torque, lockwire them, normally you will never touch these screws again. in reality it happens very often that screws holding aluminium parts together will loosen after a while because aluminium is a soft material and "flows" by a small number.
what helps is to check all screws periodically and retighten them according to service intervalls.

mec

[voxonda]

Lockwiring is not for tightening. It is a safety measure for not loosing bolts/nuts whatever. Rather brake with bolts that are loose than with no bolt at all.
To each his own.

Rob

[Tintop]

+1 Rob

[fastbroshi]

To each his own, but once you have witnessed a deadly accident from upclose, think one would re-consider. Ducati lost front caliper(s) at the end of old back straight on Assen. Accident involving well-known Endurance team in practise when rear wheel nut came off, luckily at end of pit. There are more examples, like oillines coming loos and covered reartyre in oil with very heavy crash as result.
I do not state it is in the rules but imo it should. And remember these are/where very well trained machanics.

This one?

[turboguzzi]

nice try broshi, but if you actually watched that race, you'd knew that the wheel of Maxime Berger cracked at the spokes, not something that any amount of lockwiring could help with

me thinks....

check the pic as its about to happen

not good publicity for Marchesini...

[dustyc]

-Except it wasn't a Marchesini.  It was an Oz wheel.  I never followed the story to find out what the root of the problem was(-manufacturing problem? mishandling?)

[voxonda]

Surely was not this incident. Incident I was reffering too was during the international Ducati weekend some years ago, were the bolts from the froont calipers werent attached properly and let go. Tragically at the end of the old fast straight were they reached 150 mph.

[turboguzzi]

-Except it wasn't a Marchesini.  It was an Oz wheel.  I never followed the story to find out what the root of the problem was(-manufacturing problem? mishandling?)

yep, my typo

[cobra]

Anyway back to bolt drilling, i have ordered a pack of 2mm split point drills, to be going on with, the reason i want to drill the nuts and bolts is, i have fitted new sprockets, and am unable to get hold of the tongued washers to fit the rear brake sprocket, or the front disc, i have tried david silver spares, and ebay, but with no luck, does anybody know if someone else is making them?

[lordmoonpie]

I ended up drilling my bolts for the same reason Tony - couldn't find the lock washer tabs. I'm with Rob for what it's worth I usually over-lockwire for safety sake...

[iomtt9]

By the time youve snapped all the small drills, it will be cheaper to buy pre drilled titanium bolts from pro bolt........ the mrs dont know how much ive spent on these, but ive weighed the new 500/4 and its very light  !!!!!!
Col

[iomtt9]

Joking apart cobra . Are you after the lock washers that are curved with two tabs on each end  ?
Col

[cobra]

Yes Col, for the rear sprocket, and front disc.