Author Topic: Engine woes...75 CB750  (Read 6121 times)

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Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« on: August 18, 2012, 12:07:38 PM »
So, as some of you may or may not know, I recently bought a 750 that to my guess has been neglected for the past several years. I recently bought and installed the carb rebuild kits and thoroughly cleaned out the carbs and reinstalled them on the bike. The valves and cam chain have been adjusted and the stock airbox is reinstalled. My first issue is I keep getting white-ish smoke from the left (sitting on the bike) cylinders, the right side is fine. What could this possibly be? I haven't synced the carbs yet, but it was doing this before I took them off and rebuilt them. My second question is, where can I get the 8 o rings that are used to connect the fuel pipes between the carbs. Because they were not replaced in the rebuild and now(of course) are leaking. Oh and if it also helps I have the Pamco ignition installed with the new coils. Thanks all. -Danny

Offline rklystron

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 01:30:27 PM »
White-ish smoke indicates oil burning in the combustion chamber. This can be caused by bad rings, bad valve guides and or bad seals. More then likely I would guess rings. Have you done a compression test on all cylinders? One of the best way to find out the condition of an engine is with a leak down tester. Many threads on both of these testing procedures. O-rings you may be able to find at Harbor Freight. The have a Nitrile O-ring set that has 10) 8mm X 2mm o-rings. Hope this helps. Best of luck.
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Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2012, 02:10:49 PM »
Crap, that's what I was afraid of..next question...anyone in NJ wanna help me do a top-end rebuild !?!?

Offline ekpent

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 05:23:41 PM »
Crap, that's what I was afraid of..next question...anyone in NJ wanna help me do a top-end rebuild !?!?
  How many miles have you driven it so far. ?

Offline tlbranth

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 05:43:51 PM »
Crap, that's what I was afraid of..next question...anyone in NJ wanna help me do a top-end rebuild !?!?
Well maybe it's oil but oil smoke is usually blue in my experience. Does the smoke go away after a while? It might be water vapour.
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Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 05:49:49 PM »
Ehh it seems to be pretty consistent, but I haven't ridden it, since rebuilding the carbs, etc...so I can say for sure that it doesn't taper off. But reviving it up just makes it smoke more.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 06:58:29 PM »
You never answered how many miles you have actaully put on it yet. As mentioned water in the pipes can cause white 'smoke' or if the bike has been sitting a long time it could also have a sticky ring which may loosen it up and get better with time.

Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 07:04:44 PM »
Since rebuilding the carbs and trying to get them to sync properly I haven't ridden it at all, so I'll give riding it a shot too

Offline ekpent

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 07:07:17 PM »
Think that would be a good idea before getting into a big expensive tear down where new problems always arise.

Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 07:14:20 PM »
I think you're right, tomorrow morning I'll find the oring's I need for the carbs, sync them up and give it a nice ride.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2012, 10:49:21 PM »
The 1975 F0 bikes had the [first of] the poorer valve guides, which wear quickly. Typically, at 25k miles, they are finished. Not all F0 bikes have these, but many did, and all F1 and later engines as well.

That said, there's several other things that can make white smoke, from uneven combustion activity:

1. Leaking exhaust at the header pipe, on just one cylinder. You can replace the copper "donuts" under all that carbon to fix up this one.
2. Uneven ignition timing. Make sure you are right on the "F" marks for the 1-4 and 2-3 sets, at idle, and they both advance evenly.
3. Bad plug caps. They should be with 500 ohms of each other on the 1-4 coil or the 2-3 coil: on the K6 bike they were 7500 ohms when new and are worn out at 8500 ohms, while the F0 had 10000 ohm caps, worn out at 10800 ohms by Honda's spec. Replacing them should be done in pairs, and use the 5000 ohm (5k) caps from NGK for best results today.
4. One fouled spark plug. If #1 is smoking, look at #2, which is just ahead of it in the firing order.
5. Idle air screw set to the wrong number of turns. Set it at 1.0 turns, +/- 1/8 turn. I recommend 15/16 turn in most cases, to go along with the ethanol in our gas.
6. Too much octane in the gas can make it smoke. The F0/F1 and K5/6 ran on Regular in the old days, which is approximately midgrade with ethanol today.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2012, 07:58:28 PM »
Hondaman awesome information!!! Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll look at all of this!!! My coils and plug wires/caps are new, was smoking before I put them on, with the Pamco ignition, no change, I'll change the copper gaskets, check timing and ensure its set correctly and also throw in a new set of spark plugs, readjust the carbs etc. Again thank you so much, and everyone else who has chimed in to my post. It's really greatly appreciated. I'll let you know what I find!! - Dan

Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2012, 08:00:01 PM »
Also when I bought the bike I filled it with super( 91 or 93, I can't remember) but if this was the case wouldnt it smoke from both exhaust pipes (running 4-2 exhaust setup)?

Offline nancy

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2012, 09:44:35 PM »
Assuming it is not rings....and it happens on the LHS of the bike - the common denominator could be  fuel supply. Your tank may be supplying indifferently across the engine to the leftmost carbs.
I had 3 episodes where my 750 ran lean to out of gas on LHS - white smoke was one symptom - but it was at the same time as it turned into a 2 cylinder motor for the slow return trip home to fix it. Always caused by low fuel, too slow switching to reserve and a poor fuel line routing.
Symptom of lean running maybe.
regards
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 11:14:06 PM »
Assuming it is not rings....and it happens on the LHS of the bike - the common denominator could be  fuel supply. Your tank may be supplying indifferently across the engine to the leftmost carbs.
I had 3 episodes where my 750 ran lean to out of gas on LHS - white smoke was one symptom - but it was at the same time as it turned into a 2 cylinder motor for the slow return trip home to fix it. Always caused by low fuel, too slow switching to reserve and a poor fuel line routing.
Symptom of lean running maybe.
regards
Mark

Good point!
Good point! I forgot about this one...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Dannodarko

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Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2012, 02:02:45 PM »
Thanks everyone for all your help, I'm gonna try some stuff out tonight and see what I come up with..I'll keep you updated on the results. Also what is a good reading/ variance for cylinder pressure? (compression test)

Offline Tugboat

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 02:13:08 PM »
They should all be within 10% of each other.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing twice.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 02:24:02 PM »
Thanks everyone for all your help, I'm gonna try some stuff out tonight and see what I come up with..I'll keep you updated on the results. Also what is a good reading/ variance for cylinder pressure? (compression test)
You can have a wide range, so as TB says within 10% of each other.

Lower than 80 it probably won't run. 120 to 160 is pretty good. 180 is primo for a stocker.  IMO

First hand, I usually pump 200+ on a less than stock engine.   :D
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Offline cgswss

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 04:48:08 PM »
First of all the o-rings you need are (dash size) -010 Nitrile O-rings (AKA Buna-N)

However I will make a very strong caution.  Replacing these requires spiting the rack which requires removing the choke plates.  The choke plates are held in place with small screws that are "split" to resist coming out.  Those screws are NOT designed to be reused.  I would very highly recommend you get some fresh M3X6mm screws to replace them on reassembly and use red loc-tite on them.  Its been a while since I worked in a dealership, but I would love to have the money people spent rebuilding engines that they had cleaned the carbs and a few hundred miles later one of those little screws dropped out and found it way into the combustion chamber!


Offline ekpent

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 04:55:48 PM »
First of all the o-rings you need are (dash size) -010 Nitrile O-rings (AKA Buna-N)

However I will make a very strong caution.  Replacing these requires spiting the rack which requires removing the choke plates.  The choke plates are held in place with small screws that are "split" to resist coming out.  Those screws are NOT designed to be reused.  I would very highly recommend you get some fresh M3X6mm screws to replace them on reassembly and use red loc-tite on them.  Its been a while since I worked in a dealership, but I would love to have the money people spent rebuilding engines that they had cleaned the carbs and a few hundred miles later one of those little screws dropped out and found it way into the combustion chamber!


You have me confused on the 'choke plate" thing for a 1975 750 carb rack. ??  When I split the rack up for a real good cleaning or for him to just replace those orings I just disassemble the choke linkage that is held with the cotter pins.

Offline Dannodarko

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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2012, 09:11:10 PM »
Ok so I did my compression test and all four cylinders are at 150psi +/- 2psi. I took out the plugs and found the number one plug was in hand tight

Offline Dannodarko

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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2012, 09:16:37 PM »
Needless to say the plug was wet. I cleaned all the plugs, rechecked/adjusted gap and reinstalled.
  Also thanks for the sizing on the orings. When I disassembled  the rack I just took off the cotter pins on the linkage and did it that way, I didn't touch the screws, although I was tempted to for about three seconds and just decided to take the linkage apart.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Engine woes...75 CB750
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2012, 05:52:37 AM »
Ok so I did my compression test and all four cylinders are at 150psi +/- 2psi. I took out the plugs and found the number one plug was in hand tight
That's pretty good for a bike that hasn't run in a while. It'll likely get better after its run a while.

Get it running, run some SeaFoam thru it, I'll bet it'll be fine. I may have missed it, did anyone say anything about valve stem seals? They get hard with age. SeaFoam will soften them up, but only replacing will really fix them.

Do the carbs and everything else first. With that good compression, its probably not rings.
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"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Dannodarko

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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2012, 07:24:45 AM »
I have new seals, just haven't installed them yet. The engine is also leaking oil like a sieve on the left side and the bottom so, I'll add that to the list of gaskets/seals to replace

Offline Dannodarko

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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2012, 07:25:33 AM »
Also do u recommend running the Seafoam in the oil?