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Author Topic: Period sohc Pro Stock project .  (Read 59276 times)

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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 09:35:45 AM »
Greg, give me a shout if you need a lift with anything, only a half hour away if that. :)

Sam. ;)
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2012, 01:53:28 AM »
Quote from: Z-MO on October 29, 2012, 03:10:39 PM
What did that swing arm come off of?
It's a NOS chrome moly 3ins over arm for the 750 sohc .
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2012, 02:04:55 AM »
Quote from: Sam Green Racing on November 01, 2012, 09:35:45 AM
Greg, give me a shout if you need a lift with anything, only a half hour away if that. :)

Sam. ;)
[/quote
Thanks for the kind offer Sam  ;)
You know Sam , you'd have laughed watching my mate Mark and me taking the motor out of the old F1 that I'm using as a donor , jeez that thing was heavy  ;D. I can't believe that I used to lift those things out( and put them back in) by myself once apon a time  8) .
]
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2012, 02:24:03 AM »
THE EASY WAY OUT, strip bike to just frame and motor and remove right side engine bolts.
Lay frame and motor on right hand side on cushioning on the floor.
Remove left side engine bolts and lift frame off of the motor.
SIMPLES, as Alexander would say ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2012, 05:08:38 AM »
Hi Sam . I'll bare that in mind if I'm ever in the same position  ;). Talking about removing engines has anyone ever tried modifying a stock frame so that it has a whole detachable bottom loop ( like Bimotas had , I think  ;D) on one side . Incidentaly Sam , I'm thinking of fitting one of Gordons frame kits , any ideas on this because I'm struggling to find out if these are still available . Cheers Greg "H".
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2012, 11:37:59 AM »
THE EASY WAY OUT,  just ask him. ;D

A lot of riders just left the top rails out for drag racing.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2012, 01:41:39 PM »
I did cut out the top rails on my Honda back in the day when I fitted the 970 motor . Back in those days I was unaware that other people were doing it , it just seemed like a good idea at the time ,and anything which saved weight and made life easier was o.k by me . I must admit to a little trepidation when I think of doing it now,particularly now that I'm a lot older and a  little bit wiser,  ;D. thats why I was thinking of using Gordons frame mod . However I've had a recent change of heart and have decided to chop off the rails . If I'm going to do the job, it's got to be done right  ;)
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2012, 03:15:45 PM »
Hi Greg, CycleX has a frame splice kit that may be easier to fit and work just as well if you are not too sure about taking out the rails completely.... ;)

http://www.cyclexchange.net/index%20pics/frame%20splice%20kit.JPG
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 12:08:44 PM »
Thanks for that RR  ;) . I should be getting the frame blasted this week , then when I get it up on the bench I'll be looking to see if I can delete the frame rails but try and restore some of the strength back into the frame without adding too much weight,  still maintaining good  access to the top end of the motor and trying to keep the proper early P/S bike look .
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2012, 12:00:20 PM »
Managed to do some work on the frame this weekend .

Here are the results of my labours .

Before and after .


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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2012, 12:13:29 PM »
A couple more pics, plus my current ride which has given me a lot of thrills , and is now up for sale

 .
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2012, 12:42:24 PM »
Apologies for the multiple posts guys . I'm not very good with computers  ;)
Things are developing quit nicely with the bike . Considering I work long hours  :(. and that we're currently looking  to move house ,  we're viewing houses in the evenings and weekends, which doesnt leave me with much spare time  . I have to snatch any free time I can get to work on the bike at the moment .
I've managed to buy a pair of K1/6 replica side panels to go with the K model P/S glass fibre tank,mudgaurds and headlamp that I already have  ( although the donor was an F1 the bike is being built as a 74/75 K model) so once I've sorted out the mounts for the side panels the frame will be off to be blasted .Happy days  :) :)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 09:00:41 AM »
Greg, I've just been reading through the thread and I'm not sure if I mentioned it when we spoke on the phone. Regarding that cut off shock mount and the aftermarket swing arm, it might not be a problem that it's been cut off because if the arm was made for a K model, the shock or strut won't line up with the F frame.
Fit the arm into the frame then check the alignment of the strut/shock on the chain side.
Although the rear top rails were the same on both models, the top mounting lug on the F was quite a bit longer  to align up with the mounting point on the arm which was cranked further out than on the K.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2012, 12:19:55 PM »
bump. ;)
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »
Hi Sam . It's 8.26 pm and I've just listened to the voicemail you sent  ;)I'm just going to nip out into the cold workshop ::) to check on what you just posted . I'll be back on soon with a response  ;) ;).
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2012, 01:19:16 PM »
I've just rigged up the swing arm in the frame , and guess what , you're right Sam . I just did a rough check using a plumb line,and the drive side mount doesnt quit line up, so when I machine up a new mount I'll make one up which will line up properly . There are still a few jobs that need doing on the frame yet like new mounts for the K series oil tank I'm fitting , mounts for the L/side K sidepanel ,knock up a new swing arm spindle, bore out the swing arm mount holes in the frame to match the swing arm pivot and do a bit of  seam welding of some key areas just to ensure the frames integrity , after all(even though it's in reasonable nick) the frame is over 35yrs old . I dropped a bunch of stuff off at the polishers this morning so when I get some nice shiny bits back , I'll post some pics.



i
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2012, 01:54:15 PM »
How are you going to brace the top frame tube now that you've removed it's supporting rails Greg? That's really going to affect the frame's integrity mate. I know you only intend going in a straight line, but if you build a reasonably potent engine, the stresses on that one piece of tube will be enormous. Cheers, Terry.  ;D
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2012, 05:15:54 AM »
Hi Terry .
           Firstly I felt that I needed to check out the frame structure internally before I got  in too deep with this frame , firstly ( and most importantly ) to ensure that it would be a safe frame , and secondly to establish that this frame was a viable proposition,and  so that I didn't waste a bunch of time on it only to  have to discard it. To this end I had a mate come over and we used his Borescope to have a look inside the frame tubes and we concluded that the frame was sound but a bit of extra welding around the area of the head stock wouldn't go amiss  ;).
Regarding your specific question , well , I figured that the removal of the top frame rails would only be an issue if the bike was likely to be doing some cornering or heavy braking .I did consider cutting off the original top tube and fitting one of a larger diameter ( which could also double as a fuel tank ) but when I checked out the rules for P/S bike back in 74/75, the only mods which were allowed to the frame were the removal of uneccesary brackets/lugs   and the removal of the top rails on the sohc Honda .
One of my mates builds racing outfits for a living and has all the machinary in his to work shop to enable him to do any job which needs doing on any m/cl frame, plus a lot of "real world " experience to fall back on . I'll be taking the frame up to his in the next couple of weeks so he can cast his very critical eye over my handywork  ;D ;D.    Regards Greg "H"     
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2012, 11:50:32 PM »
No worries Greg, I know that permanent removal of the top frame tube's support structure was common amongst the custom bike guys in the 1970's, but that was all about show, rather than go.

The stresses of accelerating/decelerating rapidly, while possibly not as much of a concern as going around corners hard, should not be ignored. I'm sure the top tube could be braced (or replaced with a thicker walled section of tube of the same OD so as not to upset the scrutineers) in such a way as to return some rigidity without adversely affecting your desire to be able to work on the engine in place.

Anyway, it looks like you are on the right track by taking it to an expert, so I'm sure you'll end up with a nice safe bike to race, have fun! Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2012, 08:37:36 AM »
Quote from: Terry in Australia on December 02, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
No worries Greg, I know that permanent removal of the top frame tube's support structure was common amongst the custom bike guys in the 1970's, but that was all about show, rather than go.


I think you'll find the top tubes were removed to save taking the complete motor out just to work on the top end Terry.
Gregg, perhaps your mate could convert the frame to how the Automatic is made, some pics of mine on this page. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=61876.3125
The auto frame was constructed this way as it has a deeper sump and needs the extra clearance to get the motor in and out.
The off set on the swinger came to light when we fitted the RC arm into the auto which has the same off set as the F.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2012, 08:50:50 AM »
More pics of the frame on this page Gregg and in one, you can see how the left strut had to be cranked.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=61876.450

Sam. ;)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 02:19:46 AM »
Quote from: Sam Green Racing on December 03, 2012, 08:37:36 AM
Quote from: Terry in Australia on December 02, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
No worries Greg, I know that permanent removal of the top frame tube's support structure was common amongst the custom bike guys in the 1970's, but that was all about show, rather than go.


I think you'll find the top tubes were removed to save taking the complete motor out just to work on the top end Terry.

Yes and no Sammy. Yes, they did that for top end work on race bikes, but the "chopper" set did it so they could mount peanut tanks etc. The smart fix for racers was to have removable top tube supports, and these were offered by RC and several other "go fast" shops. (MCRider has a period RC frame kit on his "Phaedrus" bike)

The "Gordon Frame Kit" is the best kit for this, and much, much better than just lopping them off and substantially weakening the structure. Seriously, I would not ride a bike (even in a straight line) with the top tubes just lopped off, that's an accident waiting to happen. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2012, 02:16:47 AM »
Terry an Sam , apologies for my late response , I'm not usually on the lap top mid week . Guys, rest assured that safety is at the top of my list ,  we've already decided that we need to strengthen certain areas of the frame and also need to come up with a top frame mod which while still  within the spirit of the early seventies P/S rules, doesn't compromise the frames structural integrity . The frame will be going up at my mates soon ,so all I've got to do between now and then, is strip one of the motors so that we have empty engine cases to work with, and get the wheels built for when we do the dry build  :).
I'll be posting pics of this stage of the build , also I'm picking some bits up tomorrow from the polisher, I'll post some pics of them when I get the chance .
Regards Greg "H". 
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2012, 02:22:55 PM »
No worries Greg, and I don't want you thinking I'm harping on this, but as exciting as a new build always is, it should always be done safely. Good luck! Cheers, Terry. ;D
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Greg H

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Re: Period sohc Pro Stock project .
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2012, 11:36:25 AM »
A couple of pics of some of the bits that I've managed to source in my quest to convert my "F" frame into a "K" one . Also a pic of the bits that I picked up from the polishers this morning . I'm not given to using superlatives very often , but the polished bits are looking amazing  :) :)

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