Topic: 12 attempts in and no luck wiring 550 Please HELP

[cprice9]

So I have tried and tried, I've resourced every simple wiring diagram I could find.  At this point Im just trying to get the running electrics going, I figure I can deal with lights after it is running.  The bike was running perfect before I took this wiring harness off, Im trying to go basic from scratch but for some reason I can't get spark.  This is what I just put together, if you can help point me in the right direction Id really appreciate it.

[superseven]

I am not really familiar with the system on these bikes as of yet.  That being said you have stated you have no spark. So you need to focus on that system.

My guess is that you have a break in the current path associated with the points. 

If you have a OEM diagram study it and look for differences in that area.

If you get to specifics let me know and I will try and help out.

[Gurp]

This one has never failed me

[luap]

I might have just bumped your last post that was started

[cprice9]

This one has never failed me

so maybe you can help me get over the walls I run into with this diagram.  My solenoid has a red/yellow and a black along with two posts, how is that work out on this chart.  Also, my keyswitch is red, black, brown, brown/white… any more detail you could give me on this one would help too.  Lastly, I've got three connections to make on my 3 way light dimmer, three connections to make on my headlamp, and a starter button that has two wires coming off of it?

Thanks for the responses

[luap]

so maybe you can help me get over the walls I run into with this diagram.  My solenoid has a red/yellow and a black along with two posts, how is that work out on this chart.  Also, my keyswitch is red, black, brown, brown/white… any more detail you could give me on this one would help too.  Lastly, I've got three connections to make on my 3 way light dimmer, three connections to make on my headlamp, and a starter button that has two wires coming off of it?

Thanks for the responses

IMO if you are running it the way you have it in your diagram you are correct. If you check your last post I wrtoe down where the wires coming off the starter silenoid. key switch your only going to use the red an black
if the silenoid wires arnt connected then its not going to work they need to be to finish ciruit

[HondaMan]

In your diagram, I don't see a connection to the Green Ground circuit of the wiring harness. These bikes do not use the frame as ground. The Green ground wire should make contact with the frame either under the seat (pre-1974) or at the coil mount (post-1974), to a clean, bare metal ground. Then, the big ground cable from the battery must go between the frame mount and the engine at the engine bolt, and both the engine and frame must be clean. This one carries the starter current, which would otherwise melt the other wires.

The points ground thru the big engine ground to the battery (-) where it ties into the Green ground circuit. There should be a direct connection between that (-) and the Green: sometimes it is a ring terminal of Green right at the battery, sometimes it ties in at the rectifier.

[phil71]

if the bike had working electrics , even if you have no understanding of why things do what they do, match color to like color, and it will just work.

[luap]

Hondaman I ground out the way you mention But what is the reasoning for it Why cant you ground out to the frame

[iron_worker]

If you have 12v coming into the primary side of your coils and the ground is being switched properly by the points then you should be able to get a spark.

Things to check:

1) With the points both open (put a match book in between or somethign) check for battery voltage coming into the primary side of the coils, coming out of the primary side, and at the points connection themselves (little bullet connectors ... undo the connectors and check the voltage at each on the coil side of the connnector).

2) Take the match book out of the points, keep the points bullet connectors undone, and test for continuity between the points side of the bullet connector and ground. Turn the engine over and it should switch from open circuit (infinite resistance) to grounded (0 resistance) as the points open and close.

3) Check the ground connections between the coil and the frame... When the high tension side fires it must be able to travel along the plug wire, through the plug cap, through the plug, across the gap, into the block and come back to the coil ground. A full circuit. (Also do you have the correct resistor caps/resistor plugs that you require?)

I would think if these things are all present and as they should be then you should be getting spark.

IW

[cprice9]

I appreciate all the info, thigh I'm not sure if I'm more confident or more overwhelmed in my abilities to pull this together, or lack there of.  I'm taking a multimeter to the SOB tonight and hopefully can get her going.

[iron_worker]

Well if you have no spark then don't worry about the charging side. Focus on the coils and points and get spark. THEN work on the charging system if it's not working correctly.

IW

[lucky]

Hondaman I ground out the way you mention But what is the reasoning for it Why cant you ground out to the frame

Yes. it was confusing the way it was written but ground does go to the frame.
Read his post very carefully and forget that sentence,
"These bikes do not use the frame as ground. "(Hondaman)

Just make sure there is a ground from the battery to the frame. Large heavy wire.
You know the one that goes to the engine mount bolt on the left side of the frame.
Then on the wiring HARNESS you need the green ground wire to the frame under the seat (rear battery box mount bolt) or as Hondaman says from the harness TO the coil mount, (front coil mount bolt) on the frame.

Also make sure there is a ground from the frame to the engine.
Usually the engine mount bolts touch the engine and ground but it is good to have a wire from the engine to the frame too. Just in case.

Just follow ONE WIRE at a time from the wiring diagram.

ONE WIRE AT A TIME!!


You want an actual ground wire to ground your components. Just grounding to the frame works, but it is not as good as a copper wire leading back to battery ground.
This gets into theory you do not need right now.

[lucky]

I appreciate all the info, thigh I'm not sure if I'm more confident or more overwhelmed in my abilities to pull this together, or lack there of.  I'm taking a multimeter to the SOB tonight and hopefully can get her going.

It is a lot easier to follow the wiring diagram in the workshop manual.
When you try to use one of those "basic easy wiring diagrams " you find out many things are left out.  Then what do you do with all of the extra plugs and wires still not connected. See what I mean?

[Round Dice]

Are you using a volt/ohm meter?  If not you should be.

With key in the off position, check to make sure you're not getting 12v where you're not suppose to. 

With the key in the on position, make sure you're getting 12v where you're suppose to. 

Checking to see if battery (-), frame ground, and engine ground are the same is a five second procedure with an ohm meter.

[phil71]

guys, we're getting too technical too fast. it was a running bike. if no wires were clipped or spliced between the time it was running, and the time it stopped, i would disconnect the battery, open the headlight bucket and connect like colors till you can't anymore, check fuses, re connect battery.

[Round Dice]

From what I understand, that OEM harness is gone now.

[cprice9]

correct gents, at this point in time the connected battery is exactly as it was from factory, ground and all.  The harness was pulled, and the connections made are exactly as they appear in my little drawing up top. the regulator, rectifier, and alternator are ground individually to a spot where the side covers popped in (I sanded the paint down to metal)

I do have a few wires not connected to anything at this moment…

blue/red and green/red coming from alternator
yellow/red and black on the solenoid
brown and brown/white coming from key switch

[Round Dice]

Brown and br/w from key switch is lighting, you don't have to worry about that.

I suppose you know that the y/r and black on the solenoid are used to run the starting motor.  Let me know if you don't.

The b/r and g/r are you're switches for neutral and oil pressure.  You shouldn't need those either. 

So do you have a meter?

[cprice9]

Brown and br/w from key switch is lighting, you don't have to worry about that.

I suppose you know that the y/r and black on the solenoid are used to run the starting motor.  Let me know if you don't.

The b/r and g/r are you're switches for neutral and oil pressure.  You shouldn't need those either. 

So do you have a meter?

So far that was my understanding, the solenoid wires I didn't know about though.  I've got two posts coming off the top of the solenoid, one to the starting motor, one to the battery, then I have coming from inside the casing of the solenoid I see the yellow/red and black wires.

I've got a meter and now am watching some youtube vids on it as I thought it was cut and dried but Im not quite sure it is making sense.

[Round Dice]

Good man.  The main things you'll need to know how to use are volt meter and ohm meter. 

Ohm meter tells you if two pieces of metal are electrically connected (two ends of wire, the motor and the frame, etc.).  If the leads are hanging in the open air the meter should read "-1" or maybe just "1" to indicate that there is no connection.  If you touch the two leads together the meter should read less than one, "0.3" or something like that.  This indicates that there is a connection.

The volt meter will tell you if you're getting power where you should and/or shouldn't. For example, you should read about 12v when you touch the leads to the terminals of your battery.

The solenoid has the y/r (-) and the black (+) wires.  If you put 12v across those wires the two posts are connected.  Otherwise the posts are not connected.  As you know one post goes to battery (+) and the other to the starter motor. 

You keeping up?

[luap]

  y/r to ground blk to one side of push button an other side to blk ignition
The bike wont run with out the wires connected coming off the starter silenoid if you eliminate the starter silenoid an go kickstart only the diagram you have will work or just hook up the wires like mentioned above

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112012.0

[cprice9]

So I relocated the grounds to the base of coil bracket, at this point Im not even worried about my start button I just want to get it to turn over.  The r/y and black coming off solenoid are still not connected to anything.  The multimeter is giving my 2 volts when key is on red dot, and 14 when key is switched up one more position.  At this point I think I might be draining my battery so Im going to pick up a charger and, though I work on computers for a living I don't think Im working my meter the right way so Im going to study up on that. 

In the meantime, here is a pic of where Im at.  Electrical aside Im waiting on a new tail light, rear springs from a GL1000, getting a rear cowl and seat fabricated, stripping my tank down to metal, cleaning carbs, new seals, new chain and sprockets, exhaust, sync, and GO GO GO!!!

[phil71]

if you have 14 v at any time, you aren't draining your battery.

[cprice9]

so why when I turn the key to red, which should be ignition (?) do I only get 2-4?