Topic: 350f cases are split. Need some help here.

[twincityrider]

Thanks in advance for those of you who can offer advice.  So I've split the cases on my 350f to replace the starter clutch (the 350f seems to be the only model that requires this).  Now I'm staring at all these gears wondering to myself when/if I start pulling other gears to replace seals if I'll be able to properly get it back together.  A few questions:

1) Should I replace all the seals in the bottom end now?  It has 30,000 miles on it and no leaks minus the shifter seal which will be replaced.

2) If I do replace the seals, can someone give me a rundown and/or a link as to how to properly get the gears apart and back together?

3) What's the best product to use to seal when I button the cases back up?

Thanks again,
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=49060.0;all

[ttr400]

To question 1) yes you should always replace the seals, if you don't and it leaks you won't be too happy to strip it all down again.

2) For the crank you will have to remove the rotor for the one seal, then lift the crank out, install new seals, put some fresh engine oil on the bearings and re-fit the crank.
It is not necessary to remove any of the gears from there shafts to fit the new seals. the small seal on the main shaft, that you can replace without moving the shaft. the output shaft will have to be lifted to remove the old seal and fit a new seal as it has a locating pin on the seal.
3) Best to use Honda bond 4 or Yamaha bond (same stuff) for the crankcase halves.

Have fun.

Kevin

[twincityrider]

ttr400,

I certainly appreciate the advice.  I've had a heck of a time trying to get that rotor off.  I've tried three different rotor pullers with no success.  I've also tried the bolt trick but I don't think I've got the perfectly threaded bolt for the job.  Any idea what size I'd have to find?  Most hardware store's don't care metric that big.  Thanks again.

[Bodi]

I think it's 20mm dia x 1.5mm thread pitch (I've been wrong before).
A bike shop should have the right tool, and should be willing to use it on your engine for pretty cheap. You don't need it to reassemble.

[r6100mph]

I recently took the rotor off my CB400F and it was the hardest thing ive had to do to that bike, and I have the engine cases split.

What i did was got a 3-jaw puller from harbor freight, luckily they had a 4-pack with different sizes on sale for $20, I ended up using the largest puller.

Instead of using the bolt trick where you loosen the rotor bolt a little ways, and the center of the bolt is where the puller sits.  I pulled the bolt out because I didn't want to mess up the threads, and used a deep socket where the diameter matched the inside of the rotor.  This way the socket was bearing directly on the tapered end of the crankshaft, and there was no chance of messing up the threads. 

So 1st day i get the puller on the rotor, evenly spaced the jaws around the rotor and start tightening the puller.  1st by hand, but mine didn't come off until I took a 450 ft/lbs air impact wrench to the end of the puller, while applying heat directly to the rotor center.  I kept cranking on the puller to the point where it made indent marks in the back side of the rotor, then all the sudden "POP" it came off.  But watch out as I was heating that rotor for 15 minutes or so.  Super Hot.

Prior to this I tried PB blaster, freezing the entire crankshaft in the freezer next to the frozen steaks.  Basically what it came down to was brute force (heavy duty air impact gun) and lots of heat.

I never thought it was going to come off but it did, after about a week of working at it.  and the indents on the rotor are not bad enough, and i am going to reuse the entire rotor. 

Good luck! let me know if you need any pics.  I still have the engine apart and could replicate the situation for you.

[twincityrider]

Bodi and r6100mph,

Awesome stuff.  I'm going to give both methods a shot.  Guess it's probably time I get the blow torch out.  I'll post an update when I get a chance.  Thanks again.

[bryanj]

If you use a 3 or 4 legged puller you run a serious risk of damaging both rotor AND crank, you need the proper type tool and if you cant afford or get one all honda dealers i know would extract that rotor for minimal cost ESPECIALLY if you order parts for the rebuild at the same time

[r6100mph]

Quick question, does the special rotor tool have a taper to it?  By taper I mean, does it slightly spread the rotor making it easier to remove from the tapered crankshaft? 

My rotor was really on the crank, and I would be skeptical of the special rotor tool, for a couple of reasons. 

1.  Not sure if i could get a good handle on the tool to turn it, and produce the large torque needed as with the 3-jaw puller and impact gun.

2.  worried about stripping out the internal threads.  I guess it wouldn't matter too much since the bolt is actually threaded into the crankshaft not the rotor.

[aesache]

How did you make out with finding a diagram for the cases/gears? if you want i have a PDF copy of a hayes manual i would be happy to send you parts of it via email (you are welcome to the entire copy but its 250 mb)

that offer stands for anyone else reading this as well

[twincityrider]

aesache,

I sent you an email.  The Clymer manual is, as usual, pretty sparse.  Thanks for the offer.

[twincityrider]

hey ttr400,

Where are you in South Africa?  My fiance and I spent about four months in SA last year.  Mostly working on a conservation farm near Graaff-Reinet in the Karoo.  Also traveled the Garden Route and spent some time in Cape Town and Durban.  Did a couple more months of traveling in Tanzania, Zambia, and Egypt.  South Africa is a beautiful and fascinating country.

[bryanj]

Never had a failore with the proper Honda tool and a soft hammer but a 3 / 4 legged puller with air gun WILL damage the rotor

[ttr400]

I'm up in Pretoria, well half way between Pretoria and Jhb. Yes you are right it's a good place, could be even better if they can sort the crime out, But I don't know so much with our next new president.....! Hope you did the garden route on a bike.
I'll be in Capetown on Friday for one of National superbike rounds, working at the track. But then next week is WSB at Kyalami.......look out for me on telly.

Back to removing the rotor, in the past I have used a 20mm bolt (as per Bodi), screw it in and give it a good whack with a hammer. has always come off for me. also + 1 to Brian's post.

Kevin

[bryanj]

You can get the genuine honda tool from Dave silver

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/partnumber_48514/

[chrisbc55]

save yourself a lot of grief and get the Honda shop to do it. Cost me $20, no damage, no grief.

Cheers
Chris

[skidooextreme]

There is no need for a honda shop to do it, get the right tool and a impact driver. 2 seconds later you are done. It would be like paying honda to put air in your tires

[IBleedHondaRed]

buy a Honda shop manual

[flybox1]

save yourself a lot of grief and get the Honda shop to do it. Cost me $20, no damage, no grief.

Cheers
Chris

Nice Dig-up 
Thread was started in 2009 and the OP hasnt been on the board for nearly 2 years...WTF?    

[sanxa_]

How did you make out with finding a diagram for the cases/gears? if you want i have a PDF copy of a hayes manual i would be happy to send you parts of it via email (you are welcome to the entire copy but its 250 mb)

that offer stands for anyone else reading this as well

aesache,

I would hugely greatly a copy of the hayes manual as well. I cant see a link to send you a PM or email, however.

Much appreciated

[sanxa_]

Just noticed the thread is a dinosaur..   

[IBleedHondaRed]

Haynes shop manual is useless. get a Honda manual from helms

[kghost]

He prolly used a 3 - 4 jawed puller....trashed it....then gave up.

Who dug up this fossil?

[lucky]

Two assemble the cases use GasKacinch.
One coat on each side,let dry ,then assemble.