Topic: Help! bike runs like crap, what happend?

[78_SaltLick]

Took the bike out today for a ride, started it up and it sounded funny and wouldnt idle on its own i had to keep the throttle on it to keep it going. Ive had this bike for a year now, and it has always every kick started and idled on its own perfectly, that is the one thing about this bike ive always liked. I turned up the idle screw so it would at least idle on its own, okay so it is now idling fine, still sounds not right though, and i had to turn the idle screw WAAy up to make it idle on its own. take it out for a spin and it has no power, seems like its not running on all cylandirs? Ive had this bike for about a year, never had a problem with it before like this, its always had good power. Ive had a tuneup ect within the past two months, even had it out for an hours ride couple of days ago and it ran like a champ....i park it for a few days and now this.....would a fouled spark plug cause this? I have no idea what to check for any ideas would help.

[TwoTired]

Check the head pipe temps to see if cylinders aren't firing.

Check the points to see if they've slipped.

Pull the plugs and look at the deposits, for fouling, wet with gas, etc.

Check the basic tune-up stuff.

[Sam Green Racing]

Lloyd, many hands make light work, it's a good job you'r around. 

Sam.

[78_SaltLick]

okay so i checked the points, possibly they have slipped? As they stand now, (i do not know the terminology here folks so bear with me) one of the "points" is making contact and the other one isnt. The one on the right hand side there is a pretty decent gap there, id say you could stick a flathead screwdriver tip in there. Other one is closed. Should they both be closed at the same time? Does this mean i need to adjust the one with the gap? Jesus i didnt know how little i know until i wrote this out. I did replace the points/condensor myself a couple of months ago, but i had a friend right over my shoulder telling me how to do it.

[78_SaltLick]

Check the head pipe temps to see if cylinders aren't firing.

Check the points to see if they've slipped.

Pull the plugs and look at the deposits, for fouling, wet with gas, etc.

Check the basic tune-up stuff.

Only thing i noticed with the plugs is plug #1 the "L" shaped arm is white, the rest of the plug looks good though, same as the others i believe this means its running too hot? possibly because of the timing needing to be adjusted? If i only knew what to adjust, and how to do it...i am searching and found some info but i am dumb, is there anyone that can tell me if for sure the points sound like they are out of adjustment, and what i should do now? When i took the points cover off, with the bike not running one set of points there is no gap, other set of points there is a large gap probably could put the tip of a flat head screw driver in there. Much larger gap then just a piece of paper or top of a pack of matches. Points were replaced by me about 2 months ago....that would probably explain it 

[tsflstb]

I think the spec for the point gap is .012-.016 inches.  Rotate the engine by hand and slip a feeler guage in there when they are fully open.   The manual gives a pretty good rundown of how to check and adjust everything.  Measure, loosen, adjust, repeat...it takes me a few tries to get it right.

[78_SaltLick]

I think the spec for the point gap is .012-.016 inches.  Rotate the engine by hand and slip a feeler guage in there when they are fully open.   The manual gives a pretty good rundown of how to check and adjust everything.  Measure, loosen, adjust, repeat...it takes me a few tries to get it right.

So having on set of points with no gap and one set with a large gap is not good? Or is this just because the engine needs to be rotated?

[tsflstb]

Yeah, one set is closed while the other is open.  That's how your coils are triggered to fire.  You can put a wrench on the big nut under the points cover, turn the engine over and see them open and close.  You'll want to set the gap so it's .012-.016 when they're completely open.

[78_SaltLick]

Yeah, one set is closed while the other is open.  That's how your coils are triggered to fire.  You can put a wrench on the big nut under the points cover, turn the engine over and see them open and close.  You'll want to set the gap so it's .012-.016 when they're completely open.

so it sounds like the gap is way to big then, you could probably fit a stack of 10 sheets of paper in there, and im not sure if it is fully open.

[my78k]

Sounds like the points to me...the one sounds way too big of a gap. The way I adjusted it was to do exactly as described above. Rotate with a large socket (23 mil I think) on the nut until one point is at it's max gap and measure the gap (well I didn't really measure I just loosened it and put the right size feeler guage in and then tightened it up) rotate it again and do the same with the next point. go back and double check the first gap etc...

Little trick tho is to do in low lighting as when you fire it up with the points cover off you can easily tell if you are getting spark.

Again tho, before you adjust anything double check that you are not already getting spark either by looking at the points while running in low light or by pulling one of the 2 sets of plugs hold it near the engine and look for spark or by doing a flash test on the header of the cylinders you think are not running (although this would not confirm no spark as it could be fuel related)...would be a shame if you started adjusting unnecessarily if that wasn't your problem in the first place...

Dennis

[78_SaltLick]

okay i will do that when i get off work, dam work it sure messes up my day 

[scout18]

Saltlick you really need to get a manual. All of these little things are in there. Take it to the bathroom with you and just start at the beginning. You will amaze yourself. Heck someone probably has a motorcycle manual on video if you searched ebay or something.  Have you had that bike over 100 yet?

[78_SaltLick]

I downloaded a manual off the internet today, printed it out at work too. This is what ive tried so far to no avail, bike still wont idle and has no power under load.

1. Checked the point gap, seemed a little much .16 so i brought it down to .14.
2. Pulled the plugs and replaced them all, plugs 1,2,3 seemed okay plug 4 the arm that bends over the top was ash or white colored on top? I believe this is running lean.
3. Rechecked all the idle/air screws, they were all set at 1 1/4 turns out from seated.
4. Checked the battery, water level was fine, its a newer battery i hooked the tender up to it, showed green in 5 minutes.
5. Checked the air filter, its a K&N filter, newer i put it in about a month ago.
6. While i was replacing the plugs, i checked all the plug wires cut the end off and reseated the housing part on again to make sure they had good contact.
7. Checked the fuel flow, checked the inline fuel filters for obstructions. Everything seemed okay.

About a month ago i pushed the clip up a notch on each carb needle because this bike has a 4 into 1 exaust on it, and was running extremely rich. This seemd to take care of the problem, its been running great since then. I readjusted the ide/air screws as well after adjusting the clips on the needles to adjust for the bike running leaner. I just cant help but try and think about what would have happened between the last time i rode the bike (a few days ago) and now. it was running great like always a few days ago, i took an hours ride on it, park it in the garage come back in two days and wham! wont idle, has no power under load, and the engine sounds really rough now. Could it be related to the temperature? I parked my bike in our hotter than hell garage, it hit over 100 degrees for a few days in a row, and my wife was doing laundry in our garage at the same time which made it extremely muggy and very hot in there for long periods of time. Could condensation make something not work? Dam ive been working on this all day, and doing searches for anything related to this issue, but havent found much. Any more ideas guys?

[dusterdude]

salt,have you tried to take it out for an extended ride on the highway,perhaps some small particle of crap got stuck in the pilot jet and running might help dislodge it.good luck

[Boomologist]

salt,have you tried to take it out for an extended ride on the highway,perhaps some small particle of crap got stuck in the pilot jet and running might help dislodge it.good luck

Had a similar thing happen on a run. #1 was running cooler than the others. I'll tell you what I did but if you try it I'm not responsible.
At 60mph and in 4th gear I slammed the choke closed then immediately opened it. Problem fixed. Most likely was water in the carb which is much heavier than gas and the added vacuum sucked it on through the engine.

[78_SaltLick]

salt,have you tried to take it out for an extended ride on the highway,perhaps some small particle of crap got stuck in the pilot jet and running might help dislodge it.good luck

Had a similar thing happen on a run. #1 was running cooler than the others. I'll tell you what I did but if you try it I'm not responsible.
At 60mph and in 4th gear I slammed the choke closed then immediately opened it. Problem fixed. Most likely was water in the carb which is much heavier than gas and the added vacuum sucked it on through the engine.

hmm. I just started it up this morning and let it warm up for quite a while, took it for a spin and checked the temps of the pipes, #2 is running cooler than the others, basically you can grab that pipe in your hands after its warmed up, the other ones you can barely touch them with the tip of your finger really quick. What is that saying when one pipe is cooler than the others?

[78_SaltLick]

the bike has lost so much power that its hard to ride it even in 1st gear, no power at all. seems you have to have it at least in half throttle position just to make it go down the road some. ill keep puttering around with it, thanks for your suggestions. any more please reply.

[volthause]

#2 cylinder is obviously not getting either spark or fuel.

Check for spark by removing the #2 plug with the wire attached, and hold it against the engine block and get a friend / accesory to turn the motor over. Watch for spark arcing across the gap.

Drain the fuel from #2 carb bowl (petcock off please) and check for nasty stuff. Replace the drain screw then turn the petcock on again and wait for fuel to run into the bowl. Drain bowl again and see if any fuel actually made it into the bowl. Could be you have a stuck needle vavle keeping fuel from entering the bowl.

[TwoTired]

Based on the symptoms so far, I'd persue some sort of fuel restriction as the problem.
Drain and catch the float bowl contents in a clean shallow pan (particularly #2 and #4) and look for bits larger than 0.016 inch.  These will plug slow jets.
Those big screws at the bottom of the carbs are drains.
With the bowl (s) off you can actually unscrew the slow jets, blow through them, and check for light seen through the orifice.

If you find contamination, locate the source.  Check your fuel screen on the petcock, and also for rust scale in your fuel tank.

If you feed clean carbs chunk fortified fuel, they constipate and stop flowing.
Cheers,

[Boomologist]

With the symptoms getting worse I would also suggest a fuel issue. Is there an inline filter that could be plugged? Did this start just after fueling (I have one gas station near me that's famous for water in the fuel). Do look at the bottom of your float bowls (or drain them into a CLEAN container)to see what's there.

[tramp]

check your coils, had a 350 four that one slipped out and it was running on only 2 cylinders

[78_SaltLick]

Based on the symptoms so far, I'd persue some sort of fuel restriction as the problem.
Drain and catch the float bowl contents in a clean shallow pan (particularly #2 and #4) and look for bits larger than 0.016 inch.  These will plug slow jets.
Those big screws at the bottom of the carbs are drains.
With the bowl (s) off you can actually unscrew the slow jets, blow through them, and check for light seen through the orifice.

If you find contamination, locate the source.  Check your fuel screen on the petcock, and also for rust scale in your fuel tank.

If you feed clean carbs chunk fortified fuel, they constipate and stop flowing.
Cheers,

To recap so you wont have to read through, my symptoms are a loss of power, pipe coming from #2 is warm at best, and my bike will not idle at all now. Sounds and acts like its not running on all cylandirs.

I drained and catched all the float bowel elements tonight, and although there was alot of rust, and big chunks of rust in #2 especially (i had my hopes up when i saw that) its still running the same (bad). Jets seem to be clear, or they were after i blew them out a few times. The source of contamination is obvious, my tank is rusty on the inside and i know i need to clean it. I refilled the bowel under #2 then drained it again and compared the gas level that was in that bowel to the rest, it was the same, meaning i am getting gas at least to that cylandir. I also took the tank off and took a look at the coil's for anything loose, i didnt see anything. Did the spark test as well to #2 tonight, am getting a spark.  Plug wires are hard wired though to the coils, since im getting spark though, my coils coundnt be bad, could they? . Is my next step a compression test? Could #2 have always not been running well, and im searching in the wrong direction, or would i definitely notice like i am now that #2 cylanidir is not getting what it needs. Oh well, its been fun going through all this stuff, its all new to me and im learning alot, having fun. Spending too many nights up til all hrs messing with this bike though ha ha.

[78_SaltLick]

With the symptoms getting worse I would also suggest a fuel issue. Is there an inline filter that could be plugged? Did this start just after fueling (I have one gas station near me that's famous for water in the fuel). Do look at the bottom of your float bowls (or drain them into a CLEAN container)to see what's there.

Symptoms not really getting worse, just all of a sudden happened. One day its riding great like always...park it after a good hard ride then a few days later i go to start it and it happened. Yes i do have an inline filter, possibly i wll change that out next. Didnt start right after fueling, im about half way through a tank. Thanks for the suggestions!! please keep um comin.

[78_SaltLick]

check your coils, had a 350 four that one slipped out and it was running on only 2 cylinders

Well i at least looked at the coils, pulled the tank off. All the wires seem to be connected, i know that dont mean crap.  Wires are hard wired into it. i dont have a voltage meter reader, and im probably wrong but figured if #2 pipe is not as hot as the others, and im getting spark then the coil must be working, doesnt #2 and #4 go to the same coil?  If the coil went out woundnt two of the pipes be cold? Just a question i dont know crap about coils and am just guessing.

[750goes]

Not trying to come in late on this topic, but I think you still have a fuel problem.

start the process logically and work through each step to make sure the problem does not continue to follow you around

flush your tank, clean the petcock,
put in a new inline filter,
clean or flush the fuel line/s
drop the bowls on all the carbs, and clean them out
spray carb cleaner up the guts
clean all the idle jets (bet they are not all clean)
clean all the main jets
pull the emulsion tubes and check them as well.
put it all back together
check for free and clean flowing fuel to each carb
I think it may work better now..

does the bike blow smoke ??

hope this helps..