Topic: Help & Advice Please For 77 CB550F - Rebuilding

[Browneye]

Greetings from new member, first post, and start of hopefully a fun project. Great forum here, been reading through the various threads, lots of neat projects and great bikes.

I have a real dilemma with this old machine, whether to rebuild the motor or find a donor.

An old riding buddy of mine posted that he had a friend that had passed and was charged with administering his estate. He had two old bikes that he needed to 'get rid of'. A 550 and a 750. One of our other buddies picked up the 750, I got this one yesterday. The good news is that it was free. Or maybe that was the bad news. LOL

I've done quite a number of old bike restorations, dirtbikes from the '70's, so no problem with wrenching and painting, whatever it takes. However I've not started with one that was this run out. The tags are from 1984 so I don't imagine it's run since then. Worse, the ODO says 38K miles - OUCH!!

Another riding buddy and old bike afficianado turned me onto this forum, and sent me some pix of the cool cafe racer bikes that have been built out of these old Hondas. So that peaked my interest big time. Seems all I'm using off this old bike would be the frame, motor, hubs, maybe the rims (they're straight, just a little rusty).

So my querry from you experts is what to do with the motor. There are a couple of broken cooling fins on the cylinder. I could drop a new top end on it pretty easy. But with that many miles on it it seems prudent to go through the bottom end too, crank, clutch, gearbox, etc.

Whaddya think? Scrap it? Rebuild it, get another donor bike or motor, find a better core, what to do? 











___________________________________________
Chris Brown
In the OC, So-Cal
Motorcycling since 1968

[Mcwilliams570]

Welcome to the forum the bike isnt in that bad of shape. On these old bikes I find it very useful to have another parts bike help out alot. Personally if it was me and I just brought that bike home I would  see if I could get that #$%* started then go from there. It might run alright you never know 38k isnt that high of mileage these bikes go forever if taken care of.

Matt

[Browneye]

Thanks Matt.
I'm going to pull it off the trailer today, clean it off a bit and pull dead parts off it. I think your idea is a good one. I'll go thru dead prep to start and see what I get.

Good to hear they're not necessarily clapped out at that mileage. Maybe it's salvagable.

[Stev-o]

Welcome from Texas. Did you get a title? 

The 550's make great cafe bikes, I have one. And yours looks to be a good candidate, would be too expensive to restore back to original.  Parts are plentiful and reasonable. You could try to start it, but most likely the carbs will need to be rebuilt.

If you're not going to use the exhaust, and it's in good shape, I may be interested. (can't tell if it's rust or dirty)

Good luck.

[dirtdawg]

A good pressure wash and sea foam may do wonders. not a bad looking ride. I see 4 into 1 pipe and pods. somebody loved that old girl at one time.

[LesterPiglet]

If that standard pipe is in good condition please don't molest it. I've seen much worse bikes turn in to things of beauty.

[rb550four]

Welcome. That doesn't look bad at all, nice candidate for any type of build. I think Matt is right.
If it were mine I would :
Dump the oil and filter, drop the oil pan and see what is in it(filings ,shavings or pieces), Check the primary chain see if is slack... @ 38,000 miles it should be, but it may have had some work done to it recently. If the primary chain is slack and wearing on the cam chain tentioner -rebuild. If it is kinda slack you could zip it back up ,oil and filter it,clean the carbs and make sure it is able to turn over freely ,battery and attempt to make it run.
   If you are serious ,and you're not happy with the slack on the primary chain there should be no question  or fear about taking it apart and see what else is worn like cam chain, you can check all your bearings,valves.... can reseat the valves if needed, check your gears, clutch condition, shifter fork , change out the oil seals around shifter and kickstart, new engine gasket kit will save you from leaky O rings on the head, and pan gasket can save you a mess on the floor.
   You never know what you'll get with a donor motor, could be worse than what you have now,you won't know until you take a look at the one you have. How's the compression on this motor?Is it only the odometer mileage that is frightening? Are you sure that that is the original speedometer,it could have been dropped and replaced with a used one with higher miles on it.
    You never know what the story is with an engine until you take it apart ..... so once you've changed the worn parts it doesn't matter what the history was, because you'll be making the next chapter of history on a freshened motor.
    Well, that was long winded but that's what I would do. Good luck . get a manual and keep us updated, this looks like a nice project.
,,

[TwoTired]

 The bike looks like it can be made into a runner in a few day with little investment.    The one in my avatar looked like yours when I got it.
Just because it was free does not make the bike worthless.

If you are determined to make it into yet another cafe that you and only you will want to drive occasionally and for short distances.  Do try and save the exhaust system for a restorer.  They can't be had anymore new.  Hacking one up for kicks ought to get you a dunce cap for two or three years.

Very few people can build an engine as well as the Honda factory.  Make it run before you rip it apart.  At least you will gain a punch list for things that must be done "while it is apart".  Further, many good 550 engines have been ruined by people "learning" on a cheap bike and not paying attention to the assembly warnings in the shop manual.  Just because someone else threw it away, doesn't mean you have to as well.
The lower ends last 100K miles if they've had routine maintenance.  Do check for primary chain wear, as there is no tensioner for that.  I have a 550 with 42K miles on it with same primary chain.  Leaks, but runs pretty well.

Plan to go through the electrical connections and clean the fuse holder bright and shiny.

Not good news seeing pod filters and a stock exhaust.  Gonna run lean and hot unless someone knowledgeable made some carb internal changes.

Good luck!

[Browneye]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback.

100K on the bottom end? Whoa. Okay, will do as suggested.

I got it degreased somewhat. Took the carbs off and cleaned them up. Pilot jets and bowls were full of fuel residue. Everything else looks good on them, I'm sure they would run fine.

I did get  Haynes manual with it, and the title. The stock exhaust is clean and nice, will probably use it or sell it to a stock restorer.

Oil is still in it and it turns over. Not a lot of compression in 5th gear, but I'll bet it will run. Will put a battery in it, change the oil and filter, and see if I can get the old girl to run. See if it smokes or rattles.

Primary chain? I'll look that up in the manual.

Pods are dirty but don't look to be that old. Pulled #1 plug, it's clean and tan. Inside of the motor looks clean.

It needs a clutch lever and kick starter. Need to figure out which fuse older melted - third one from the front, red wires. Can't quite tell where they go. Main fuse?

Side covers are good but will probably sell those, tank, and seat. go with Benjie or similar cafe body. Have the rims de-chromed and powder coated, ss spokes from Buchanans.

Pulled the inginition cover, pounded out the dents and polished it. Points look spotless inside. Still some fuel sloshing in the tank, but no key so can't open it. Guess I will be bypassing the iginition switch.



I'll see if our local honda dealer has a pan gasket, oil filter.

[Stev-o]

Sounds like you have a good plan. Any key will open the fuel tank lock.

The ignition or seat lock should have a key number on it, order here...

http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/vintage.html

Or a locksmith can cut you one.

[rb550four]

That sounds like a plan.
In the back of the manual you'll find the wiring diagram if you are interested to know where the red wire goes to. I have had some fuse problems like the blown fuse and usually the problem is found in or behind the fusebox. check the condition of wires and clean the contact surfaces ,replace the fuse. if it keeps blowing ,either a dead short somewhere or the---- switch is no good. Fortunately there is aftermarket ------- switches, but you can bypass the  --------switch for testing purposes only , especially since you have no key.     I 'm wondering, just wondering why your compression is different in 5th gear  compared to any of the other gears? Just wondering.
Sounds like a plan. on a 4 wire, red to black . The two browns can go together too.just be sure the wires that you strip back are on the  ---switch side of the plug,not the wiring harness side.
 Be absolutely sure that you are in Neutral when you hit the starter button for testing since you have no clutch lever and pop starting would be a really bad idea.
 Have fun,be safe.

[Browneye]

I 'm wondering, just wondering why your compression is different in 5th gear  compared to any of the other gears?

It shifts thru all the gears, so from habit I just clicked it up to fifth and turned the tire, motor turns over. Just seems like there's not a lot of compression.

I'll see if I can get it running, go from there.

As far as turning it into a cafe or stock, the former just clicks for me whereas the stock is kind of boring. I have four other bikes, so this is just a toy. I can't see buying all new fenders lights and stuff to restore it to stock. I would rather just sell it then.

I found a decent price on rear sets from FAST FROM THE PAST but the ones they list for the 550 go up to 76. What about 77? Are they different? I'll make inquiry there as well.

The Benjie body work is nice looking stuff, but $875? Any other suggestions?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[Tews19]

Do what you want with the bike. It's yours but save the original parts you are not using... Does the muffler have any holes at all?


check out this members videos... Will walk you through cam tensioner adjustment, valves and damn near building your engine step by step..

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=111105.0

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=109867.0

[LesterPiglet]

When sourcing a kickstart make sure it's for an F model, the K's don't work with an F frame. And more than likely the rearsets between K's and F's will be different.

[Browneye]

When sourcing a kickstart make sure it's for an F model, the K's don't work with an F frame. And more than likely the rearsets between K's and F's will be different.

Researched a lot of options on rear sets last night. Yes, the 76 'k' frame is different. I can cut a mounting plate that bolts on to the passenger peg brackets and the front peg mounting and use any universal sets. Should work out just fine.

Did some polishing on the exhaust and it looks pretty good. The better looking options are a LOT of $$, so it may stay on there depending on what it sounds like.

Found nos fork boots on ebay, $75 for a pair, ouch!

Has anyone used Progressive or Race Tech for springs and shocks?

[TwoTired]

Did some polishing on the exhaust and it looks pretty good. The better looking options are a LOT of $$, so it may stay on there depending on what it sounds like.

It's muted, nice & quiet and it won't wake the neighbors.  So, you'll hate it.  Cafe bikes have to be loud, noisy, and obnoxious to fit the image, right?

I probably have a system you'll love.  It's a real, genuine cafe option from the 80's.  Short, plenty of ground clearance.  Probably the least amount of "muffling" possible yet still be called a muffler.
There might be some surface rust on it but, you'll want it all flat black or wrapped up in tape anyway.

If the muffler you have doesn't have rust holes, we might make a trade.

[Browneye]

Did some polishing on the exhaust and it looks pretty good. The better looking options are a LOT of $$, so it may stay on there depending on what it sounds like.

It's muted, nice & quiet and it won't wake the neighbors.  So, you'll hate it.  Cafe bikes have to be loud, noisy, and obnoxious to fit the image, right?

I probably have a system you'll love.  It's a real, genuine cafe option from the 80's.  Short, plenty of ground clearance.  Probably the least amount of "muffling" possible yet still be called a muffler.
There might be some surface rust on it but, you'll want it all flat black or wrapped up in tape anyway.

If the muffler you have doesn't have rust holes, we might make a trade.

Ha. I'm not quite that extreme, but i do like something more than a honda lawnmower sound.

Send me pics. Yes, the stock system is without rust or holes. It has a couple of scratches on the side, underneath, but looks really good. I'll have to see what it sounds like.

I like the look of the ones on Benjie's site, but $1200 for a system is out of the question.

yeah, black with tape wrap sounds good. LOL.

[Tews19]

Keep the 550 header, sell th emuffler to TwoTired, and buy yourself a reverse cone megaphone from cone engineering for 80 bucks.. You wont be disappointed

[Stev-o]

+1 - keep the header if in good shape. Stock muffler is very quiet. 

[TwoTired]

Well, it's in far better shape than I thought.  I don't think I've seen this exhaust system for 10 years, so that's my excuse.  I spent 15 minutes with some 0000 steel wool to make the bits you see shinier than the rest of it.  I'm confident the rest will look as good with another half hour of elbow grease.  I don't believe it will need flat black or header wrap.  In fact, it would be a shame to cover up this vintage performance exhaust system.  Ontario was quite the name brand in go fast parts back then.

Anyway, this was state of the art in the 80's.  (The bike was last registered in 1989.)  Shave weight and improve suspension to make a Skyline Boulevard blaster.
Loud exhaust and pods were required and this bike had it all with these go fast goodies.  I was told there was a cam upgrade in it, but I never verified that brag.  I was also told it had mikuni carbs and it didn't.  Just standard 069a Keihins.  I never found time to make the bike run.  Probably take a week or less.
Anyway, now I'm wondering what this bike running and cleaned up shiny would sell for...  I had sorta expected to restore it to stock.  But, maybe I should cash in on the cafe fad, now that the Gold wing has arrived?  Probably not enough time for me...

Any interest in the exhaust system?

[Tews19]

TT, would you be interested in selling the carbs and manifolds? Also, are those Konis on the rear? I would be interested in those too.. PM me if interested in moving please

[1BadCB750]

If the bike was semi-maintained and not abused prior to being parked, 38k is nothing.

[luap]

Nice looking bike. Id personaly find a different set up then what benji has to offer. Ive heard the bad stories about how the tank wasnt lined properly an the gas ate through the fiberglass.
IMO that tank is nicer then most the stuff benji makes that one is a little pricey I picked on up for 175 bucks a little while back
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-RESERVE-NOS-BENELLI-260-360-MOJAVE-GAS-TANK-CAFE-RACER-/320978085062?hash=item4abbc8e4c6&item=320978085062&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

[Browneye]

Nice looking bike. Id personaly find a different set up then what benji has to offer. Ive heard the bad stories about how the tank wasnt lined properly an the gas ate through the fiberglass.
IMO that tank is nicer then most the stuff benji makes that one is a little pricey I picked on up for 175 bucks a little while back
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-RESERVE-NOS-BENELLI-260-360-MOJAVE-GAS-TANK-CAFE-RACER-/320978085062?hash=item4abbc8e4c6&item=320978085062&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

How would you make that fit on a 550? There was another one just like it, an orange one as well. It's up to $275 already.


So tonight I dropped the pan. Oil was dirty but no bits in the bottom of the pan. Gears are clean and unworn. Some slack in the primary. Run it or plan to replace it?

Oil filter was a royal PITA. Completely ruined the bolt getting it off, so ground off the flat to fit a 1" socket to use temporarily. Installed a new KN401. Screen is perfectly clean.

It's too early to do anything with exhaust, however I did visit the cone engineering site, it's terrific. I think I'd do one of their 17" double cone glass packs on the stock header. Probably wrap the headers with the SS muffler.

Gotta get the beast running, then go from there.

[Browneye]

It's ALIVE!!!

Changed the oil, cleaned out the carbs, hooked up a battery and voila, it runs. Pretty good too, smooth, quiet, shifts, clutch works, lights.

I have a buddy that's a honda expert, will have him listen to it, tell me if he thinks the primary rattles too much. I may end up tearing it down anyway, do the top end, replace the primary chain, and anything else that looks worn. No knocking though, not much blow-by. Carbs are noisy, pods were off.

Anyway, that made my day, week....WHOOHOO!

Now ready to move forward. Thumbs up!

[Browneye]

I heard about Garage Company and rode out there today. I'm about 45 miles from LAX. And it was over a hundred today so kinda sweat my ass off. They do have a lot of old stuff. I met Yoshi, the owner, asked him what he had to convert a CB550F, tank and seat, and he said, "Nothing that bolts on. You have have to heavily mod." Yeah, I knew that, but no good suggestions? Nope!

They had the 'bornini' or whatever shouldered aluminum rims, lots of them, $200. $120 for akronts. Ouch. Probably will just powder coat what's on the bike, new spokes. Should I get imports or Buchannan SS?

So, suggestions for a tank?  I could build a seat, or buy one, they're not too spendy.

Gonna tear the thing down soon so I can paint the frame and go thru the motor. But I really want to settle on build parts so I know what I can grind off and what I need to leave.

Garage Company, Los Angeles CA





 

[JoshuaJames]

Congrats!!! great to see another 550 come to life.

i may have to wire mine up to a lightning strike to bring her to life

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Yoshi's shop is pretty amazing.  His collection is ridiculous.  I think you are better off, however, buying your rims at Buchanan's.

[Browneye]

Today I degreased the frame. Geez, I was covered with black spots from a big scrub brush spraying me with greasy goo. Used engine degreaser, scrubbed it down.

Last weekend got the bike stripped down, everything off, motor out. Took me a few tries, had to come back here for pointers. Just removing the breather cover is what it took, then it lifted out. Heavy som#$%*.

I guess I'm going to tear the motor down and go thru it, pull parts together for the build, then do a pre-finish trial fit of everything, then tear down and start with final finishing, painting, etc. Get the frame blasted, polish pieces, etc. Reassemble.




Yes, that's still residual engine grease, not paint. The thing was a greasy mess.

[Browneye]

I did some more degreasing of the motor and pulled the top end off. With 38K mile on the odo I was absolutely shocked at what the inside of this motor looks like. Especially having not run for almost 30 years. The barrels are like glass and the rings are still well within spec. Everything is within spec, it's beautiful.

I got one of those gallon cans of parts cleaner and soaked each piston for about 8 hours, then scraped the rest of the carbon out of the ring grooves and ran a wire brush on a grinder to clean the tops. There was quite a lot of carbon in the combustion chambers so it was really nice to have it apart now before the motor would eat itself.

Wire brushed the head domes and solvent tested the valves - not the slightest seepage, they are air tight. Whoohoo!!

Getting ready to degrease here. What a mess. Plugged all the ports, taped up, hose 'er down.









Couple of weeks ago rode out for 'Cafe Desmo' annual event at the big Ducati/MotoGuzzi/Triumph dealer up in Glendale - Pro Italia - they had their open house and bike show. This '78 CB550F showed up, got a LOT of people's choice votes. I don't know if it won anything or not, didn't stick around. Pretty cool bike though and gave me lots of food for thought. Check out the custom front end on this thing, and all the polished copper plating.

[Browneye]

I really like what Witchey has come with on this one. Keeping stock pegs and super bars so I don't break the back, this one really appeals to my senses. Will probably pickup his seat and build around it. Stock tank, stripped frame, move the electrics and battery for an open trellis look.

[Stev-o]

Yeah, that bike looks great. Looks like a bigger tire/wheel than stock, one thing I have been thinking of doing to my 550 cafe to beef up the look.

[TwoTired]

Yeah, that bike looks great. Looks like a bigger tire/wheel than stock, one thing I have been thinking of doing to my 550 cafe to beef up the look.

Hmmm, you actually want a slower bike?

Most seem to like shaving the weight off the bike.

[Stev-o]

TT - you should know this, cafe bikes need to look good first, form over function (I realize you don't get it). It would be so boring if we all had stock bikes with inch size tires! My cafe bike may only see 250 miles for the year, that fat tire will last a long time (the "cafe" is close by).

Plus, I have my 836 for high speed runs.