Topic: rebuilding 550F carburators

[brewsky]

What about the fiber or ?? washers that "seal" the choke and throttle shafts? I assume they are not in the kits? They are held in by dimpled retainers. They probably wouldn't hold up in a dunk in commercial carb cleaners?

Can/should they be replaced with o-rings?

Aren't these felt?  A compressed cotton?  (A material available at most fabric stores, if you've managed to destroy what was there.)  You'll need to make punches to create replacements.
Carb cleaners readily attack rubber and plastics made from petroleum products.  Are you claiming they attack cotton fiber (cellulose) as well.  I can't say I've tested that personally.

I don't see why a "dunk" is preferred.  I suppose it does seem "easier".  But, "dunking" is never a guarantee.  You still need to "prove" all the passageways, and it doesn't (shouldn't) remove corrosion anyway.  Corrosion is best removed mechanically rather than chemically (imo), unless your chemical prowess can select something that will dissolve corrosion deposits without dissolving the parent metal.

The felt is just a dust blocker to keep it out of the bearing surface.  I'm not sure how you would use an oring for an equivalent seal/block without creating some resistance to turning or leaving a gap for dust to bypass it.
Perhaps you are smarter than me. 

Cheers,

If I was that smart, I wouldn't be asking questions!

I've used the carb dip cans with success, but never with plastic slide guides, o-rings attached, or felt washers in place etc., for fear of destroying them in the process.

In those cases, I resorted to other home brews like vinegar, Pine Sol, Simple Green etc., but would prefer to use a cleaner that is designed for the use. Regardless of which method, I always blow out the passages with carb spray and compressed air as the final touch.

I was curious what others do with the felt washers in the cleaning process and whether they will stand up to the Berrymans dip. I have never seen a part number for them and don't know for sure if they are included in any of the Honda rebuild kits or not.

I do know they stand up ok to the household home brews mentioned.

Further inspection of the PD46C's I'm getting ready to clean reveal there are both o-rings and felt washers used in the rack. Felt is used in the #1 and #4 carbs, and o-rings are used in #2 and #3 carbs. This is true of both the throttle and choke shafts?
I didn't realize this until I started poking them with a pick!

[jason41987]

well, ive taken one of the more crusty looking carbs and took the brass brush to it.. and now the inside of that carb looks brand new, very little erosion at all, nothing that couldnt be buffed out... two of the other carburators look pretty good as well and only had very light crust on it.. the fourth one had a bit of erosion at the top of the post for the jet... but not enough to risk the jet falling out should i get leaf springs for these

which brings me to another point, none of these carbs had springs in them... so im following a tutorial i found on here using an old hacksaw blade to bend into the shape of new springs to hold the jet in place...

im curious though... what is included in an o-ring kit that is not included in a carb rebuild kit?, seems the only o-rings i might be missing is the one for the T joint for the fuel.. after noticing what a surprisingly good condition these carbs seem to be in, i think ill rebuild them with new jets, and should i not be able to get the engine running, atleast i can re-sell the freshly rebuilt carbs online at a pretty decent price...

so, whats included in the o-ring kit that i cant get in the carb rebuild kits, which include o-rings for the bowl and the various jets?

[matt mattison]

I was curious what others do with the felt washers in the cleaning process and whether they will stand up to the Berrymans dip. I have never seen a part number for them and don't know for sure if they are included in any of the Honda rebuild kits or not.

I do know they stand up ok to the household home brews mentioned.

I actually soaked the felt washers in the berrymans dip by accident. They came out unscathed . I wouldnt recommend doing this, but I'm just saying. I also only soaked the carbs for about 20 min. Then scrubbed them clean, inside and out, chased the orifices with a wire, sprayed carb cleaned through the orifices and blew compressed air.

[jason41987]

twotired, honestly, if youre going to complain like a little girl because you havent been fully paying attention to the fact that im looking to get the carbs working temporarily at first at as low of a cost as possible to verify the engine itself even runs, then please, dont post any any of my threads anymore and reserve this for someone who actually reads... im not willing to dump enormous amounts of money into a bike if i cant first verify that itll run... i dont care if it runs rough, i dont care if it doesnt run as efficiently as it could, all that i care about right now is that i can get it to run at all

[jason41987]

anyway.. i dont shop on ebay anymore... not after some issues ive had with them, and different sellers on there... so, i try to find other places to buy things... i found a website called www.partsnmore.com that sells complete carb rebuild kits for about $14/each... anyone try these? are they the same rebuild kids as the others floating around online?

[andrewk]

If you want to verify that it "will run" take the carbs off, spray carb cleaner straight into the intake, and try to start the bike.

Or, you could verify it's mechanical condition with a series of tests- compression, leakdown, ignition.  You can rent the tools for free at an autoparts store.

Honestly, the difference between "temporarily getting the carbs working" versus actually getting the carbs to work is not much.  You're only going to be doing it twice, which isn't going to save you money, time, or energy.  Rebuild the GD things right the first time and ride the bike!

www.servicehonda.com is the cheapest place you'll find OEM parts. Shipping is usually more than I'd like to to be, but I don't have to go anywhere, and they come right to my door.

Again, a quick test to see if an engine will run would be to spray carb cleaner straight down the intakes and then try to start the bike.  won't run long on that, but you'll hear it run to satisfy whatever it is in your head that makes you want to half-ass it.

[jason41987]

i have most the white stuff removed from the carbs manually with brass brushes.. im curious that.. what should i use in the various passage ways to remove the remaining white crud?.. ive heard of pine sol, CLR... would any of these get rid of the white stuff in the places i cant reach with a brush if i were to soak it?.. im replacing all the o-rings anyway since theyre all bad... so what should i soak these in to get the rest out?

[jason41987]

carbs are CLEAN now... i was told by some people to soak them in this, or soak them in that.. but i managed to get all the white crud off manually with a variety of brass dremel brushes... the small passage ways in the carbs i was able to scrape clean by using a piece of soft soldering wire...

so all passages are clean, the white stuff is about 99% gone, no blockages, everything moving freely now... all i need to do now is wait for my new o-rings to arrive so i can reassmble them... mixing some seafoam with the fuel should take care of the rest but as far as im concerned im done with these things now... all thats left is a reassembly

when cleaning them, i noticed the passage way going from the fuel inlet through the little float needle piece was completely blocked on three of the carbs... most likely why this bike hasnt ran in years.. but thats taken care of as well

it feels good to be done with that pain in the rear of a project

[Browneye]

I just picked up an inherited CB550F and also wanted to have an idea if it would run before I stripped the whole bike down for rebuilding.

I went thru the carbs as you mention, pulled the bowls and cleaned out the fuel residue (sitting for 30+ years). Only one of them had a spring to hold the main jet, the last carb. So the other ones were reassembled without one, held in by their o-rings which were fine. Only one had a split bowl gasket and since didn't have one just put it back in and reassembled. Guess what? It doesn't leak. And none of the float needles leak. Rodded the jets and blew them out, did a cursory cleaning of the exterior, some WD40, and put them back on.

Changed the oil and filter, dropped the pan, took a look, motor turns over easily. Put some fuel in, borrowed a battery from another bike, and it started right up. Ran pretty good too. Charging system fine, starter fine. So now I know I just need to replace the primary chain, will do the cam chain, inspect everything, top end, etc. and I'll have a good runner.

The white residue is from modern fuels. If left in the carbs it will evaporate out and leave the white powder. It can be difficult to remove, and will plug pilot jets solid. Definitely drain the bowls if it's going to sit for more than a couple of weeks.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

My new thread here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112578.0