Topic: Full Engine Rebuild FUN!

[Vossero]

Sup guys, so I have come to the conclusion that I dont want a cafe...I dont want a race bike, I dont want a tourer...i just want a nice SOLID, COMFORTABLE, RELIABLE, GOOD LOOKING bike. I just want it to simply...work and work good...with that in mind...I decided that i just want to rebuild the engine and carbs, even though my engine and carbs are good, I want to rebuild them completely, I mean, completely the works...like make it an entirely new engine. I have no experience as some of you may know...

But heres the plan...disassemble it completely, inspect and order everything that needs replacing...i also want to sandblast or glass bead the entire thing inside and out and coat the inside in glyptal 1201 for longevity. I know theres some debate about the glyptal making the engine hotter, but honestly, I dont care, I rode a sportster here in AZ all summer for the past few years lol...Then reassemble and be good to go.

As far as the carbs, do people sandblast/glass bead the carbs to get them like new? Ive heard of sonic cleaning or something but I want a set of...basically...new carbs, and then do whatever it takes to increase the longevity, I just want to make it a solid #$%*ing bike lol...

So anyone got any extra tips or things im missing? What things are out there to increase the longevity of our engines and carbs? Well and anything else on the bike? Like I said, im sure many of us share the same goal, have a solid bike that will last a long time, especially with simple and routine maintenance

[Mo]

Uhmmm don't be stingy with parts/gaskets? I'd say, spend an extra $xx.xx and get good quality gaskets above all else. Oh, and make sure you don't forget to put stuff back in. Just curious, but wouldn't it be simpler to source a spare engine that runs/can run quickly, and then take some time and rebuild the other.

Just some food for thought..

[HondaMan]

Sup guys, so I have come to the conclusion that I dont want a cafe...I dont want a race bike, I dont want a tourer...i just want a nice SOLID, COMFORTABLE, RELIABLE, GOOD LOOKING bike. I just want it to simply...work and work good...with that in mind...I decided that i just want to rebuild the engine and carbs, even though my engine and carbs are good, I want to rebuild them completely, I mean, completely the works...like make it an entirely new engine. I have no experience as some of you may know...

But heres the plan...disassemble it completely, inspect and order everything that needs replacing...i also want to sandblast or glass bead the entire thing inside and out and coat the inside in glyptal 1201 for longevity. I know theres some debate about the glyptal making the engine hotter, but honestly, I dont care, I rode a sportster here in AZ all summer for the past few years lol...Then reassemble and be good to go.

As far as the carbs, do people sandblast/glass bead the carbs to get them like new? Ive heard of sonic cleaning or something but I want a set of...basically...new carbs, and then do whatever it takes to increase the longevity, I just want to make it a solid #$%*ing bike lol...

So anyone got any extra tips or things im missing? What things are out there to increase the longevity of our engines and carbs? Well and anything else on the bike? Like I said, im sure many of us share the same goal, have a solid bike that will last a long time, especially with simple and routine maintenance

Start with my book? That pretty much covers it. I think the publisher is having a sale just now, go to www.lulu.com, search for "My CB750 Book", and it should pop up.

Bead blasting will remove the filler that Honda used to make the fins look smooth, so you'll have to do some judicious repainting to recover that look. The cases can usually be power-washed, then hand-smoothed: I apply lacquer thinner and a rag to remove the old paint on the rebuilds.

The innards: get new chains, check the condition of the C2-C5 gearset for rounded-off dogs (have APE or CycleX repair them for you, if so), bore it to a Honda standard oversize like 0.5mm or so, and use top-quality gaskets like Vesrah on the reassembly. You'll get 50k miles minimum from the results: I have over 90k on my last rebuild like this, 140k total miles (and I'm not the mileage champ here, either!). If you tire of setting points but wish to have a fully backed-up system (in case the transistors fail), take a look at one of my Transistor Ignitions at www.sohc4shop.com, or ask some others here who have one: they are designed expressly for these bikes.

Since you're in the desert, I'd recommend staying with stock bore sizes and not jumping to the big-bore kits, for longevity's sake. That will let you ride anywhere, anytime, with little worry over fuel octane, less-than-great oils on occasion, and such things.

[Gordon]

Sup guys, so I have come to the conclusion that I dont want a cafe...I dont want a race bike, I dont want a tourer...i just want a nice SOLID, COMFORTABLE, RELIABLE, GOOD LOOKING bike. I just want it to simply...work and work good...with that in mind...I decided that i just want to rebuild the engine and carbs, even though my engine and carbs are good, I want to rebuild them completely, I mean, completely the works...like make it an entirely new engine. I have no experience as some of you may know...

But heres the plan...disassemble it completely, inspect and order everything that needs replacing...i also want to sandblast or glass bead the entire thing inside and out and coat the inside in glyptal 1201 for longevity. I know theres some debate about the glyptal making the engine hotter, but honestly, I dont care, I rode a sportster here in AZ all summer for the past few years lol...Then reassemble and be good to go.

As far as the carbs, do people sandblast/glass bead the carbs to get them like new? Ive heard of sonic cleaning or something but I want a set of...basically...new carbs, and then do whatever it takes to increase the longevity, I just want to make it a solid #$%*ing bike lol...

So anyone got any extra tips or things im missing? What things are out there to increase the longevity of our engines and carbs? Well and anything else on the bike? Like I said, im sure many of us share the same goal, have a solid bike that will last a long time, especially with simple and routine maintenance

Start with my book? That pretty much covers it. I think the publisher is having a sale just now, go to www.lulu.com, search for "My CB750 Book", and it should pop up.

Bead blasting will remove the filler that Honda used to make the fins look smooth, so you'll have to do some judicious repainting to recover that look. The cases can usually be power-washed, then hand-smoothed: I apply lacquer thinner and a rag to remove the old paint on the rebuilds.

The innards: get new chains, check the condition of the C2-C5 gearset for rounded-off dogs (have APE or CycleX repair them for you, if so), bore it to a Honda standard oversize like 0.5mm or so, and use top-quality gaskets like Vesrah on the reassembly. You'll get 50k miles minimum from the results: I have over 90k on my last rebuild like this, 140k total miles (and I'm not the mileage champ here, either!). If you tire of setting points but wish to have a fully backed-up system (in case the transistors fail), take a look at one of my Transistor Ignitions at www.sohc4shop.com, or ask some others here who have one: they are designed expressly for these bikes.

Since you're in the desert, I'd recommend staying with stock bore sizes and not jumping to the big-bore kits, for longevity's sake. That will let you ride anywhere, anytime, with little worry over fuel octane, less-than-great oils on occasion, and such things.

You heard it from the man who wrote the book...  Literally!

Just do what he says.

[harisuluv]

Yes you can blast carbs to clean them.  I have lots of pictures if you go to the link in my sig.

Going from no experience to full engine rebuild might be a little fast.  I'm in tucson if you need parts or something too.

[Vossero]

Ok so I understand what you mean by get new chains (theres 3 total right? the 2 in the casing and then the one that goes all the way up to the rockers?) And I know the C2-C5 is the rear gearset right? I have no idea what you mean by bore it to Honda standard oversize...bore what? and Im clear on the gaskets (obviously lol)

[ekpent]

Hondaman was talking about reboring the cylinders and moving up to a stock style oversize piston and rings. You have has several posts floating around do you have any pics of the project you have now. Is the engine currently assembled. Maybe its good to go now,if not a total rebuild like your talking is going to be major money,maybe cheaper to buy another complete running bike if you keep shopping.

[toytuff]

Agree..you are looking at some serious money. I see plenty of parts your way it's just 275 miles from me.

Also, don't you have a big parts yard down there? I've been told but don't know where it is.

tt

[lrutt]

I have to ask...what are you starting with? is it an oil leaking, smoking pig? how many miles? The ROI on this is NOT in your favor.

You can have a very reliable rider with some minor improvements. clean and refresh the electrical, go through the carbies, update the regulator possibly (although I'm partial to the stock electrics as they have served me well since 1978 on my K6). the ONLY electrical problem i've had in 35 years of ownership was my ignition switch, wich i took apart and cleaned to get me back on the road. You have a built in back with the kicker. As long as your battery has a glimmer of life it will run with a simple jumper wire from power to coils. That got me home when my switch failed.

If it is a total pig then that is a lot of bucks for a plain jane rider that's not restored. When you are talking crank bearings, bore/pistons/rings/headwork etc. that is some serious coin. And 9 times out of 10, what would leave you stranded is not the motor, it will be some supporting sysem, ie electrical wiring, charging, fuel. How many people here are truly left stranded by the motor itself??? 'sound of crickets'.  But your bike and your bucks.

[PeWe]

I'm convinced that you have to open the engine completely.
An old engine with probably many miles need new internal chains (primary chains + HD cam chain) and their today hardened tensioners. 
Complete gasket, sealing kits.
Valves must be grinded and valve seats check when corrosion might have caused problems.
removal of the cylinder block will end up in new piston rings and cylinder hone. Maybe new pistons and rebore.
Bearings...
Clutch kit.
Other cam like Webcam 41

Hondaman's advise is what to do.

I have my engine open since soon 3 years, just a few more parts to order. Fixed this summer.
It's not complicated to open a CB750 engine if that is what you have. I did that many years ago encouraged by friends and Haynes repair manual.
Today much easier with Internet where other describe how to do, Youtube DIY's.

[Kickstart]

Bead blasting will remove the filler that Honda used to make the fins look smooth...

That is really interesting.   Hondaman, what did they use for this?

I'm planing on soda blasting my engine (as I'm not sure how I would clean off all the old paint in all those nooks and crannies).  Would soda blasting also remove this film?

[rb550four]

Vassero, I read you intro and the rest of the thread. I must say it sounds to me that you need to get into an engine and rebuild it but, you will be without that machine as a runner until it's complete. Second  point, if this machine is a runner and a decent one, why would you take it apart?
      If I was Jonesin for a rebuild, I would pick up a spare , extra engine and rebuild that. This way you can run your old engine until the new one is finished.  And if you find that you have no skills, no time, no money, and no interest at some point, at least you will have a running machine to ride or sell.
      Cutting your teeth on a perfectly good engine makes no sense to me, do what you want but, I'd be looking for a spare motor for your first rebuild.

[Vossero]

I never mentioned it in this thread but i think in one of the others i had mentioned that u bought my 78 cb750 fully disassembled, ive had it for a month and havent gotten it up and running yet

[HondaMan]

Bead blasting will remove the filler that Honda used to make the fins look smooth...

That is really interesting.   Hondaman, what did they use for this?

I'm planing on soda blasting my engine (as I'm not sure how I would clean off all the old paint in all those nooks and crannies).  Would soda blasting also remove this film?

It appears to be a grey-colored filler like the [normally red colored] "filler" primer used on cars a lot. It looks like they sprayed the fins and let it settle, then lightly sanded (or possibly powder-blasted) the surface to smooth it, then painted. When the parts go thru a typical caustic parts washer to remove this stuff, the surfaces look awful when you get them back, kinda shocking until you get used to it! I've used the grey filler when I can find it, but the common Duplicolor types are not thick enough. The red stuff is, but it's hard to cover with gray aluminum color, ends up pink! Then it looks strange when installed on the cases.

[BeSeeingYou]

You are kind of jumping all over the place, first it's this then it's that.  Take a serious look at what you are attempting.  If you had a bike in nice cosmetic condition with a bad engine it is probably worth doing a rebuild.  Or the other way around with a bike with a good engine but cosmetically rough.  To be honest that bike looks a mess and add to that a complete engine build and you will have way more $$$ into it than it will ever be worth. You could spend far less and get a decent/looking running bike and be riding tomorrow.  Put that together with your admitted lack of mechanical experience and I am skeptical of the whole project.  Sorry for the tough love but take a step back and think it through.

[GGC]

Start with my book? That pretty much covers it.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I have a CB500k1, how well would your book apply to my bike?

[lucky]

Hondaman was talking about reboring the cylinders and moving up to a stock style oversize piston and rings. You have has several posts floating around do you have any pics of the project you have now. Is the engine currently assembled. Maybe its good to go now,if not a total rebuild like your talking is going to be major money,maybe cheaper to buy another complete running bike if you keep shopping.

This advice is not sound. Getting another bike is just getting another set of problems.
Remember although the bike may have original low miles it is still more than 30 years old and those rubber rollers on the cam chain tensioners get old ,hard and brittle.
Plus when you get another bike you have to find out all about what is going on with it and the person you bought it from may not even know the truth.

It is not cheaper.

Rebuild what you have and keep your original serial numbers and know what you have exactly. Have something you really know about and is not just heresay.

[ekpent]

Hondaman was talking about reboring the cylinders and moving up to a stock style oversize piston and rings. You have has several posts floating around do you have any pics of the project you have now. Is the engine currently assembled. Maybe its good to go now,if not a total rebuild like your talking is going to be major money,maybe cheaper to buy another complete running bike if you keep shopping.

This advice is not sound. Getting another bike is just getting another set of problems.
Remember although the bike may have original low miles it is still more than 30 years old and those rubber rollers on the cam chain tensioners get old ,hard and brittle.
Plus when you get another bike you have to find out all about what is going on with it and the person you bought it from may not even know the truth.

It is not cheaper.

Rebuild what you have and keep your original serial numbers and know what you have exactly. Have something you really know about and is not just heresay.

Hondaman was talking about reboring the cylinders and moving up to a stock style oversize piston and rings. You have has several posts floating around do you have any pics of the project you have now. Is the engine currently assembled. Maybe its good to go now,if not a total rebuild like your talking is going to be major money,maybe cheaper to buy another complete running bike if you keep shopping.

This advice is not sound. Getting another bike is just getting another set of problems.
Remember although the bike may have original low miles it is still more than 30 years old and those rubber rollers on the cam chain tensioners get old ,hard and brittle.
Plus when you get another bike you have to find out all about what is going on with it and the person you bought it from may not even know the truth.

It is not cheaper.

Rebuild what you have and keep your original serial numbers and know what you have exactly. Have something you really know about and is not just heresay.

Lucky not sure if you have seen his other posts but he bought his bike totally disassembled in boxes with parts missing and has admitted he has very little knowledge on building a bike. That probably means he also has very few tools and a workshop set up for these and doesn't sound like a tight knit bunch of fellow biker friends to help. Start adding up the parts,rebuilds,tools,probably labor since he is inexperienced,time and mistakes and maybe a cheap descent runner for a grand or less he can actually drive NOW may not be a bad deal for him. He can chip away on the big project while he rides.

[Kickstart]

Yeah, I think ekpent makes a good point.

As much as I love the motivational thread Vossero started (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118178), and don't want to discourage him... I think finding a running bike might be a good idea if the goal is to have an operational bike before he graduates.   

Vossero, don't give up the goal to do the rebuild, but maybe focus on your studies for now and treat the rebuild as a long-term project. 

[HondaMan]

Start with my book? That pretty much covers it.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I have a CB500k1, how well would your book apply to my bike?

Only the Chassis section would apply directly. The 500 has a similar overall "method" to it, i.e, one cam, four cylinders, carbs, and pipes, but that's about all they have in common. The electrical is pretty similar to the 750K0-K2 models, the brakes are similar design (as is the suspension), and the controls are real close. But, the 500 engine is a wet-sump (no oil tank) design with thru-the mainshaft clutch lifter, and uses slipper tensioners on the cam chain, along with a Hy-Vo style primary chain. In short, I doubt it would be a lot of help for the Mid Fours?

[GGC]

Only the Chassis section would apply directly. The 500 has a similar overall "method" to it, i.e, one cam, four cylinders, carbs, and pipes, but that's about all they have in common. The electrical is pretty similar to the 750K0-K2 models, the brakes are similar design (as is the suspension), and the controls are real close. But, the 500 engine is a wet-sump (no oil tank) design with thru-the mainshaft clutch lifter, and uses slipper tensioners on the cam chain, along with a Hy-Vo style primary chain. In short, I doubt it would be a lot of help for the Mid Fours?

Thanks! I have the shop manual, clymer guide, as well as general motorcycle repair books, so I think I have the basics covered. I might still pick it up for a view into the methodology while looking to my other books for the specifics.

[Eydugstr]

Vossero, +1 for Hondaman's book.  If you use it in conjunction with a clymer, haynes or honda factory manual (think the Honda factory manual is available for free d/l in the manuals section), you'll be way ahead of the game.

Do you have any pics of this bike yet?  If you post them we could probably help a lot more.  What you're hoping to accomplish is very doable, but it'll take some time, patience, and $$'s.

[Kickstart]

Bead blasting will remove the filler that Honda used to make the fins look smooth...

That is really interesting.   Hondaman, what did they use for this?

I'm planing on soda blasting my engine (as I'm not sure how I would clean off all the old paint in all those nooks and crannies).  Would soda blasting also remove this film?

It appears to be a grey-colored filler like the [normally red colored] "filler" primer used on cars a lot. It looks like they sprayed the fins and let it settle, then lightly sanded (or possibly powder-blasted) the surface to smooth it, then painted. When the parts go thru a typical caustic parts washer to remove this stuff, the surfaces look awful when you get them back, kinda shocking until you get used to it! I've used the grey filler when I can find it, but the common Duplicolor types are not thick enough. The red stuff is, but it's hard to cover with gray aluminum color, ends up pink! Then it looks strange when installed on the cases.

Do you mean like this (picture attached)?
My cylinders were cleaned, soda blasted, paint stripped, and brushed.  Looks like I removed some of the filler.

Do you think some of the Eastwood filler products would work?
http://www.eastwood.com/metal-to-metal-filler-quart-with-hardner.html
http://www.eastwood.com/usc-all-metal-2-1-lb.html

By the way... any advice on how to remove/strip the paint between the fins?  I'm having trouble getting down to bare metal in-between the fins.