Author Topic: to bore or not to bore, that is the question  (Read 3182 times)

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Offline neckyzips

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to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« on: May 12, 2005, 07:13:52 PM »
wheather it is nobeler in the mind to suffer the slings and slappings of stock pistions or, to take boreing bars to the cylinder, and by boring them... should i go on... ok
what i mean is, i got a real deal on a 500 to 605 kit, what do you guys think, the bike was basicaly trashed when i got it. should i do the big bore or leave it alone... i have visions of a sleek cafe with a little more umph, but i fear i may be in for a cafe with some real  headach...
so....

Offline Tim.

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 07:27:49 PM »
Ok - I know the kit you're talking about.  Are you buying from www.classiccycleparts.com or somewhere else?  It should cost you no more than $120 for the kit + shipping (a day ago they were selling for $100, but they raised the prices).

I just ordered the 555cc kit for my 550.  I'm doing a 0.50mm overbore, which this kit equates to.  59mm pistons.

I think the 605cc kit has 61mm pistons.  This obviously equates to a 2.5mm overbore.  That's pretty high - about the maximum.

I'm paying $100 shipped for my 555cc kit.  They're selling now for $100 + shipping.  No sleeves in the 555cc kit, but really, you don't need them in a 550 bike and they'll cost a ton to put into your cylinder block.

Bottom line, if you're rebuilding the top end, the minimum is a new set of rings and honing the cylinders.  Honda rings will cost you $100 for the set, and honing will run you $10-$20 per cylinder (guessing US prices - it was CAD$20 per here).  Total cost = $180 or so.

For a bore, you can buy this aftermarket kit (Honda Canada says the o/s pistons/rings are discontinued - I didn't have an option or I would have spent the extra $ on Honda parts) for $120 and then boring should be about $40-$50 per cylinder.  I'm paying CAD$60 each.  Total cost = $320 or so.

What's the condition / size of the cylinders and pistons?  If you can get away with rings and honing, I'd stick with that.  I'd rather have original pistons in my bike.  But, if the cylinders are on the borderline, then go ahead and bore.  Everything is brand-new, you get to break your engine in, and you know what you're sitting on.

While you're in there, replace the cam guide, cam slipper and cam chain as well.  Another $100 in parts.

Cylinder Diameters      
Overbore   CB500   CB550
0.00   55.98   58.48
0.25   56.23   58.73
0.50   56.48   58.98
0.75   56.73   59.23
1.00   56.98   59.48
1.25   57.23   59.73
1.50   57.48   59.98
1.75   57.73   60.23
2.00   57.98   60.48
2.25   58.23   60.73
2.50   58.48   60.98
2.75   58.73   61.23
3.00   58.98   61.48
Roule comme dans les années 70...   Roll as in the Seventies...

Offline neckyzips

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2005, 07:40:58 PM »
tim!
the rings were shot, but i jumped the gun and struck a deal with those guys for the kit, including rings... etc, and your right lots of money to bore, press, bore, hone, etc... i just wonder what it will do, will it be stronger, more power or just a pain to get to run right?

Offline Tim.

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2005, 07:50:09 PM »
I don't know about the tuning bit - I will say I liked the look of the pistons in the 605 kit better than the 555 kit - seemed better finished, but there were no closeups of the 605 pistons.

Considering the 555 kit is a 3mm overbore for the 500, which is what they're selling it for, you shouldn't be too bad off doing 2.5mm on the 550.  I'd skip the sleeves altogether.

For the extra $20 I was torn between the two kits, but I wanted to take a 'mild' approach to this rebuild.  I started with a $400 carb rebuild/new condensors/new points/tappet job/tuning quote to an extra $700 for the top end rebuild.  I'm only paying for a total of 8 hours labour - 1/2 or more of the cost is parts.

Near as I can tell, my bike has 30,000 miles on it.  The rings in piston #3 were broken and there are score marks on that piston.  I for sure needed the bore now, or in another year or two.

I'll do the valves next year - they're good, but could probably stand new seals and a lapping before I run into trouble.  Taking the head off is no big deal, so I don't mind not doing it now.

Let me know when you get the kit - we'll compare hi-res pics and notes.

BTW - gas cap is off and being packed up.  Pins drove out no trouble with a punch.
Roule comme dans les années 70...   Roll as in the Seventies...

Offline neckyzips

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2005, 08:01:21 PM »
i have the kit, well did its already at the shop, should have it back in a few days weeks... however that goes. i really want to do the port and polish, looked for bigger valves, but no dice, nor will anyone local even recut them for me. and i cant find a hotter cam. this is one of those, oh yeah couple hundred dollars and ill have it up and going in no time projects! figured id scrub paint pollish, make, and get a few bucks for school, but now looks like ill have a hot little cafe with a hopefuly proud dad.

oh yeah! thanks so much for the cap and latch!
joe

nigel1114

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 03:34:53 PM »
so you think it's safe to bore out the stock 550 sleeves for a 605 kit?  also, are any other mods neccessary or can you just bore the sleeves out put in the new cylinders and leave the top end and anything else for another day?

Offline Tim.

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 04:11:33 PM »
Should be.  Interestingly enough, if the pistons are really 61mm in size, that's the same as stock CB750 pistons, which I understand have been used in the past to make this modification.
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Offline kghost

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 05:15:17 PM »
Too bad you need taht extra stroke to make it 736cc. ;D
Stranger in a strange land

Offline neckyzips

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2005, 05:50:25 PM »
nigle,
ah, im not sure about boreing the 550 that much, my kit came with larger sleeves. and yeah you can just leave the top end alone, but without porting pollishing and some valve work, there wont be much change.

tintin,
yeah i heard that too, and was just going to do that but it became very complicated...

kghost...
 ha ha ha ah, yeah well, that would be kick a$$ now wouldnt it!

ok, hears the next option, bid like hell (which i must do) on the set of yosh stuff tintin pointed us to and see what happens, maybe there is a hot cam laying about hint hint... then after that comes the carbs... any suguestions? (this sounds like its turning into a "cr" project! but with 17" rims (one rather large rear one) a hand laid tank and tail, find some dyna coils, and an old yosh pipe! bla bla ...if i could only finish painting the frame...

Offline chippyfive50

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2005, 07:29:34 AM »
I just went through the same delemma, and decided (after buying the 555 kit which i still have) to just move up to the 550 motor after reading many posts in the greenspun on it. I wanted to do the rebuild  for the fun and experience, but decided I did not have enough time this winter, and would not have it ready for summer. Also the 550 motor has a much improved clutch assembly and a better gear ratios.(So I have read, and must confirm now that I have ridden it.) I got a really clean motor off of eBay for $105 and had to do very little to it. The only thing that you need is the 550 clutch hangar mount and a 550 clutch cable, everything else bolts right up.The peformance difference is notable.
SOHC Member#4000
71' 500K0 #1021237--E1108327
78' 550
72' 750K2(sold to "Craig")
74' 750K4 #2306334--E2303422
73' CL175
http://gallery.sohc4.net/main.php?g2_itemId=14013

Offline neckyzips

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2005, 12:12:09 PM »
yeah,
thats what i hear... but as of now, i think its too late, maybe the next project, i will just satart with a 550... or hopefully a 750, if i could figure out how to lighten the pig a few hundrad pounds!
and really too bad the 550 clutch assembly wont fit to the 500, but what did the guys do that raced the 500's there has to be a clutch upgrade!
joe

Offline Tim.

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2005, 01:40:21 PM »
Well, if you're interested in working on your clutch,  I happen to have a complete set of Barnett kevlar clutch plates for the 500 that I bought when I had my '73 CB500K.  I never installed them - still in the bag with instructions I think.
Roule comme dans les années 70...   Roll as in the Seventies...

Offline neckyzips

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Re: to bore or not to bore, that is the question
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2005, 01:43:19 PM »
yep,
i would be very interested... do you have springs too?