Author Topic: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies  (Read 3385 times)

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Offline jonclegg

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78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« on: June 27, 2013, 12:18:46 PM »
Here is a video of what happens:

1978 cb550 cold start

It's worse on cold days, today was pretty warm so it wasn't that bad.

Thanks in advance,

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 12:24:04 PM »
Obvious. Immediately after start you should commence bringing back in the chokeknob at least halfway if not completely. Compensate with more throttle, say 1500 - 2000 rpm. Under 1000 rpm the engine will sputter anyway. Oh, and try to make it a habit not to idle whilst parked on sidestand.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 12:31:31 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline dave500

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 12:33:56 PM »
give it some throttle and back the choke of as delta said,any old machine takes a little working of the throttle,you cant expect them to start and idle well straight up from cold.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 12:55:22 PM »
If you will allow me to comment further. First of all: that bike is NEW. Get familiar with it asap! Your exhausts are rare and precious as gold. If you want to enjoy them for years: NO short rides. Whenever you start the bike, ride it for at least 25 minutes so the mufflers get real hot. Short rides and start demonstrations (without taking the bike for a proper ride) are a no-no and will cause them to rot from the inside quickly.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 01:05:47 PM »
The computer that operates the bike needs recalibration.  ;D
Full choke for starting, then gradual disengagement as the bike warms up.  The knob is NOT an On/Off affair.  It operates choke butterfly plates in the carb inlet which starves the engine of air and applies much more vacuum to the fuel jets, making them provide more fuel, (very rich fuel air mixture).  A warm engine can't operate with such mixtures, and will eventually foul the spark plugs.

If the engine won't maintain at least 2000 RPM while the choke is partially engaged, then the fast idle adjustment screw should be turned inward.

With the choke system adjusted correctly, it does NOT need a stationary warm up period.  You can drive while engine cold and gradually reduce the choke while driving.
Just don't use high power settings or drag race during the warm up period.  Commute starts and stops are fine.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Tews19

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 01:40:40 PM »
Great write up Delta and TT. Start with choke and turn off choke
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Offline jonclegg

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 09:29:47 PM »
Ok, so even if this bike was perfect it would die without some manual throttle while starting? Why don't all carbureted bikes act like that? For example, that KLR in the background.

-Jon

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 10:45:59 PM »
Ok, so even if this bike was perfect it would die without some manual throttle while starting?

No. You still aren't getting it.  With the PD style carbs you have, you shouldn't really need to add throttle with choke operation (although you can), as it has a fast idle cam that should open the throttle enough during start up for you.  The fast idle cam is coupled to the choke knob and engages progressively whenever the choke knob is anywhere but fully pushed in.  But, you can't simply pull it out completely and leave it there, as that blocks off incoming air to the carbs.  The choke operates similar to the throttle in that regard.  When you start it, do you open the throttle all the way a hold it it in that position after it starts up?  Or, do you back off the throttle as soon as it starts?  Choke is a similar technique.  Out all the way to start and then apply only what is needed to keep it running. (earlier Cb550s did not have a fast idle cam and required the operator to hold the throttle above idle position during warm up.  But, you STILL didn't leave the choke lever full on after starting.)

Why don't all carbureted bikes act like that? For example, that KLR in the background.
You are looking at nearly 10 years of carburetor design changes.  By 1987, carburetor designs changed. 
Most went with different cold enrichment schemes than the choke butterfly plate technique used on the SOHC4.
There are thousands of different carburetor designs.  I don't understand why you would think they would all operate exactly the same way.
There are thousands of motorcycle designs.  Do they all operate and perform identically?
Different machine designs exhibit different nuances.  Carburetors are machines, too.

I had a 1937 Chevy.  On the dash was a choke knob AND a throttle knob.  Both the choke and throttle knob had to be used and modulated for starting and during warm up.  The fast idle cam coupled with the choke was a later development in years that followed, still operated with a choke knob.  Then the thermostat operated the choke and fast idle cam became standard.  Later computer controlled fuel injection, using temperature sensors made operation a simple turn key process.

The computer on the 78 CB550 is normally perched about 2-3 feet above the seat.  But, the efficacy varies with the example.  ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline dave500

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 01:03:08 AM »
if youve been used to fuel injected engines mostly you have a learning curve with your bike,,they all behave differently even bikes of the same model and year,,they all need a special touch,,and a feel for how its going to behave when cold,my wife expects to just turn the key on my old car and have it start and idle,it needs the pedal pumped once,then twist the key and slowly depress the pedal at the same time then hold the idle high when it fires up with the pedal for 30 seconds etc,they all have their different idiosyncrasies,never let your bike idle slow cold like that,use the throttle to help it run clean,as tt said your fast idle screw may need a tweak,,this will increase the rpm while the choke is being used.

Offline jonclegg

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 07:57:39 PM »
"computer that operates the bike needs recalibration"
What computer are you talking about, I've never seen a mention of a computer in manual or cylmers.

Next time I pull the carbs I'll check the fast idle. Overall though, does the bike seem like it's running ok?


Offline Tews19

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
The computer system that is under the seat... there is a flap on the underneath side of the seat.  It should be there....Maybe you missed it or it has been removed. ...


Can you make a video of your bike again but with the choke off once started.


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Offline Bootlegger56

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 08:25:23 PM »
LOL @ the under seat computer.  You'all should be nice!!!!  I forgot to mention that we use the throttle knob on the dash of our 37 Chevy's to control the speed of the engine when we have the car jacked up in the rear and using it to run the sawmill with a belt off of a tireless rim.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:28:18 PM by Bootlegger56 »
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Offline Tews19

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 08:34:18 PM »
Weird boot! I just ran to look under my seat and yep. Here it is. My computer system under my seat. Just how it was the day it left the factory.

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Offline Bootlegger56

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 08:37:32 PM »
I would say something witty in return but I'm laughing too hard to think!!!
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Offline Tews19

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 08:38:57 PM »
I would say something witty in return but I'm laughing too hard to think!!!

 I laughed when I lifted up the seat and saw it there still. ;D
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline jonclegg

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 09:54:20 PM »
I'm going assume the swimming pool is on the roof as well.

http://movieclips.com/nUFM-hackers-movie-pool-on-the-roof/

thanks guys, I'll post another video of my attempting to do it right soon.

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 10:03:49 PM »
It is all good clean fun 8) You did figure out the processor TT was referring to. Didn't you? The one between your ears.
Ken

Offline Tews19

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 10:05:28 PM »
Just having a lil fun with ya jon.... another video will be good tho
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 09:10:15 AM »
"computer that operates the bike needs recalibration"
What computer are you talking about, I've never seen a mention of a computer in manual or cylmers.

The computer on the 78 CB550 is normally perched about 2-3 feet above the seat.  But, the efficacy varies with the example.  ;D
I said that because pretty much all vehicles since the 80's have a computer in them that removes some operator prowess requirements.  There is clearly a generation of individuals, who don't even have an idea of life without their dependency on a computer to calculate and do things for them.
I recall a time during the introduction of hand held calculators, that generated controversy about humans losing the ability to do mental arithmetic calculations.
Quick tell me, what 70x9 =  ?   
If you can't do that without electronic computer aid, then you know why cashiers can't give you correct change.

Next time I pull the carbs I'll check the fast idle.
You do not have to "pull the carbs" to check or change the fast idle.  It is a screw adjustment and described fairly well in the CB500/550 Shop manual chapter 19.

Overall though, does the bike seem like it's running ok?
Seems to...   When it isn't being choked to death.....  ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Bootlegger56

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Re: 78 cb550 cold start sputters and dies
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 03:03:03 PM »
I agree with TT too....it sounds good until it loads up and dies from leaving the choke on.  Part of the love of these old bikes is learning how to deal with the technology of the time they were made in.  Working on an old style carburated, points fired system is becoming a lost art quickly!  We are becoming a generation of plug and play.  I apologize for poking fun at you too.  You will find some of the best, most helpful people of any forum on SOHC4.
Ya can travel near or ya can travel far; but no matter where ya go thar ya are!

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