Topic: Potentially a Silly Question ... RE: Powder Coating

[iron_worker]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking lots of about my plans for a winter tear down and rebuild (it's coming quick!!!).

I may invest in my own powder coat set up for small parts. You can get a powder gun that doesn't require a compressor made by craftsman (not made anymore but sold on amazon/ebay) for like $40 and pick up a cheap toaster over used somewhere. Easy peasy.

However, for large items like the chassis, swing arm, or even engine parts I will have to send the parts out to be blasted/powder coated.

My question comes in ... has anyone had an entire motor powder coated? I know lots of guys go the polishing route but I want something that is going to be durable and doesn't require re-polishing later on. Can you have an entire motor powder coated as an assembly or would head then be bonded to the cases etc etc? Do you have to have each piece coated as separately and mask off all the machined surfaces, plug all the threaded holes, etc?

What say ye to my silly question? Flame on. lol

IW

[matt mattison]

The motor would need to be stripped down and media blasted first. It's almost a certainty that the blast media would somehow make it inside the crankcase if left assembled. Not to mention what the 300 degree oven would do to any rubber parts, gaskets , etc.

[Harsh]

I thought about doing the same thing, but was steered away by my powder coater.  If you go through with it you will have to use the high temp powder and it is only available in black.  Yes I know you bake it at 400 degrees and that the engine isn't going to run at those temps, but (as it was explained to me) the constant amount of heat (especially in the jugs) will deteriorate the pc.  My guy said he would do it if I absolutely wanted, but he would not warranty it.

[ekpent]

I wonder if that stuff dissipates engine heat as well as say a factory finish ?Just seems like it would make an engine run hotter on an air cooled machine,but no expert here. Hmm

[Kickstart]

Not a silly question at all.

I've put a lot of thought into getting my engine powder coated and have decided against it.
It's definitely doable (others have posted that Harley's have powder coated engines), but you can't just have the whole engine PC'd.

As Matt said, you'd have to strip it down to prevent seals from melting and you would still want to open it up to clean out any sand that found it's way inside.

I also wonder about the effect of the thicker PC paint on the engines ability to dissipate heat... but I haven't found anything conclusive one way of the other on this.

I believe some people have had their engine covers PC'd (valve cover, alt cover, etc.) with good results.

[iron_worker]

I guess I should have explained a bit better. My plan of attack would have been to strip the engine first but reassemble just the cases, jugs, head, valve covers, side covers, etc. If you were planning to replace your fasteners with an allen head kit then it wouldn't matter too much if you got some powder coat on them. Not sure if it would make the fasteners difficult to remove since they would be "bonded" to the cases. You could then have that assembly soda blasted and then PC'ed.

I searched it and one of the links was a moto forum that discussed this same thing.

http://www.allthingsmoto.com/forums/f-31/powder-coating-engines-51222/

The guy did it with what looks like good results. He said you would have to go around with a razor blade to seperate the head from the jugs, jugs from the cases, etc. He says you do this "after flowout" which I'm not sure what he is referring to. I'm assuming this means after you apply the powder to the preheated parts but before baking but I'm not sure on this.

I didn't realize powder coat had a low heat limit. Seems silly since it's baked on. ha

I may be better off just going the traditional paint route but I thought I would ask around. Would be great to have something that you know will last a long time and won't fade like polished alum and won't chip as easy as regular paint.

IW

[Xnavylfr]

You also have to consider,, With the engine in teardown mode for the PC, you would need to cover or plug EVERY bolt hole!!! The PC WILL cake in those holes and you'll need to run a reamer through the holes and tap EVERY thread. PC is great for smaller parts but when you have 1 part made up of a lot of units bolted together you'll spend hours cleaning holes!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[Toxic]

Years ago I had the head on my Z1 project coated with a special ceramic coating that helped disperse heat.

Have you tried a company like Jet Hot Coatings?

If I were going to do the whole engine I would want something more than a cosmetic look to it.

[iron_worker]

I hadn't considered ceramic coating at this point. I'm in the idea phase so far!

IW

[jason41987]

cermamic is a very, very good insulator.. so if anything could make an engine run hotter

i planned to do a lot of powder coating on my bike as well, but i wasnt sure if powder coating the "jugs" would cause it to run hotter from insulating them or not, so i was just going to do the lower case and the valve covers, leaving the jugs a matte finish

[Elan]

I guess I should have explained a bit better. My plan of attack would have been to strip the engine first but reassemble just the cases, jugs, head, valve covers, side covers, etc. If you were planning to replace your fasteners with an allen head kit then it wouldn't matter too much if you got some powder coat on them. Not sure if it would make the fasteners difficult to remove since they would be "bonded" to the cases. You could then have that assembly soda blasted and then PC'ed.

I searched it and one of the links was a moto forum that discussed this same thing.

http://www.allthingsmoto.com/forums/f-31/powder-coating-engines-51222/

The guy did it with what looks like good results. He said you would have to go around with a razor blade to seperate the head from the jugs, jugs from the cases, etc. He says you do this "after flowout" which I'm not sure what he is referring to. I'm assuming this means after you apply the powder to the preheated parts but before baking but I'm not sure on this.

I didn't realize powder coat had a low heat limit. Seems silly since it's baked on. ha

I may be better off just going the traditional paint route but I thought I would ask around. Would be great to have something that you know will last a long time and won't fade like polished alum and won't chip as easy as regular paint.

IW

If you were taking the engine apart anyway, why not just PC them individually?  they do make high temp PC too. Your gonna want to blast with an 80 grit, so the powder stays on.  taking some time to mask parts vs risking getting sand in a new engine-the choice is obvious to me. Not to mention the billowing smoke from burning oil/assembly lube/gasket/orings etc.

I made a sandblasting and powder coating setup. Best investment in my rebuild no doubt. I spent under $150 for everything. make sure your toaster oven has convection to even the heat. I found one at the salvation army and fit everything except frame and swingarm.  I did battery box, handlebar switches, all brackets, kickstart, fork lowers, outer engine covers, headlight brackets, endless. I went with the harborfreight unit which uses a compressor. I would get one that uses a compressor. YOu will need a compressor anyway to sandblast the parts.

[iron_worker]

Well seeing as this is happening in the spare room of a 3rd floor condo ... there will be no air compressor. ha

Any abrasive blasting will have to be done out of house.

IW

[Elan]

Well seeing as this is happening in the spare room of a 3rd floor condo ... there will be no air compressor. ha

Any abrasive blasting will have to be done out of house.

IW

well you should know that powder coating will stink up the condo with offgassing. I wear a mask because of the smell.  the fine dust of the powder also gets everywhere.

I dont want to be the downer haha.

If your sending out the parts to be blasted first, having them coated too might not be much more if you find the right place and you give them all the parts at once.

[Toxic]

cermamic is a very, very good insulator.. so if anything could make an engine run hotter

It is  a special ceramic coating that disperses heat.
I didn't get mine from Jet Hot but you can read about it on their website.
http://www.jet-hot.com/coatings/

[754]

 Sumax has been PCing V-Twin jugs for around 20 years.. Myself, not so keen on PC on engine parts..

[iron_worker]

That website states that it keeps engine bay temperatures down which means it slows the conduction and radiation of heat. It helps the heat inside the headers until it is released to the atmosphere. At least that's how I would read that.

No doubt about it being able to handle the heat though.

IW

[Lostboy Steve]

Mj jugs are coated and so it my head. Harley comes factory with powdercoated jugs on some bikes. Many guys that race around here have powdercoated jugs. I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Toxic]

There are heat dispersion ceramic coatings that you want to look into.

[Bailgang]

That website states that it keeps engine bay temperatures down which means it slows the conduction and radiation of heat. It helps the heat inside the headers until it is released to the atmosphere. At least that's how I would read that.

No doubt about it being able to handle the heat though.

IW

I agree, everything I read on the Jet Hot site kept referring to it's thermal insulating/barrier properties which I don't think would be a good idea on the outside of an air cooled engine other than the exhaust and possibly the tops of the pistons, valve faces and combustion chambers of the head. I did a quick google search and there is indeed some ceramic coatings that assist in radiating/dispersing heat but I don't think Jet Hot is one of them.