Author Topic: After cam swap, won't start | Block off pics (Read 22462 times)

onepieceatatime · « **Reply #125 on:** October 11, 2012, 07:57:53 PM »

Quote from: phil71 on October 11, 2012, 07:38:18 PM

i can't wait to hear what caused all this. dumb question, if it was running good before, why did you swap the cam?

He put in a 650 cam.

luap · « **Reply #126 on:** October 11, 2012, 09:04:45 PM »

I might keep that chain tight before cycling the motor to many time the loose teeth have to go somewhere might break/bend chain or bust teeth off of crank sprocket . I ight also get a good understanding before putting it all back together. I could have listen wrong but 4 is closet to ignition 1 being on the left side while seated on the bike
1 an 4 cyclinders are not next to each other. you can do a easy test on the head if you lay it so cups are facing up an put a little gas on each one put it on a paper towel or newspaper an if you have a wet spot your leaking. Id redo it all at the point your at anyways though. good progress

750resurrection · « **Reply #127 on:** October 11, 2012, 10:37:18 PM »

Quote from: phil71 on October 11, 2012, 07:38:18 PM

i can't wait to hear what caused all this. dumb question, if it was running good before, why did you swap the cam?

He got a better 650 cam which is a thing with putting in 550's I guess and he has another bigger running motorcycle so he's getting into it. Moar power.

Oh sorry didn't see your response there onepieceatatime.

Anyway good job stereosilence and good video I guess it's kind of positive news it's cylinder 3 squeakin - honing in on that mystery...

Bailgang · « **Reply #128 on:** October 12, 2012, 04:13:23 AM »

I'm interested in what the cause is as well and whether or not it had anything to do with something dropping or breaking during the cam swap. I know this has been much more involved than originally anticipated but it just might be a good thing. Say for example the problem has nothing to do with the cam swap and is something that was getting ready to happen anyhow, the simple process of turning the engine over slowly by hand during the swap may have alerted you to a problem early enough for you to correct it before any serious damage developed. Good luck and keep us posted.

stereosilence · « **Reply #129 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:40:34 AM »

Yes. I was just going to do a performance improving tweak that everyone said was very simple. So, be very careful to make sure everything is aligned properly. I'm not sure this is the problem, but make sure of that.

At this point, I am going to begin preparing for a full engine disassembly and rebuild. I had been planning to do it maybe in the dead of winter or farther in the future, but I want to get everything cleaned and blasted and the engine painted as well as making sure the innards are sound. So, since I am about to take the block off, and since I dropped the damn puck down the cam chain slot and it has (at least so far) disappeared. At this point, if I'm gonna have the head cover, head, and block blasted, might as well get the engine case done also.

I'll keep you posted. Since this is turning serious, I'll probably keep a more concise narration on my build thread.

Don R · « **Reply #130 on:** October 12, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »

You might have a bent valve but a bent valve won't make a squeal. Especially when the head is off, so move on for now. Are there any vertical scratches on the cylinder wall when the piston is down? if the walls look smooth I'd guess the squeal may be from a bearing. I can't think of anything that would take out a bearing other than a dry start or debris in the oil. If that's the case it might be cheaper to find a used engine. Hope I'm wrong and it's obvious and relatively easy.

phil71 · « **Reply #131 on:** October 13, 2012, 03:52:07 PM »

Even a dry start is a long shot..

crazypj · « **Reply #132 on:** October 13, 2012, 10:39:45 PM »

I've heard that squeal when one (or more) of the oil ring rails is bent down the side of piston

stereosilence · « **Reply #133 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:15:05 PM »

Ok. I got the block off today. It wasn't a terrible amount of trouble. I was just worried I would mess something up.

Anyway, I looked in the cylinders and didn't see any vertical lines that looked like a rub. I still can't see any sign of the rubber puck I lost down the hole. At this point, I am thinking about going ahead and splitting the case so I can get the whole thing sandblasted, painted, and back together. Trav-i is coming over on Thursday to help me, so hopefully he can help me out me a good bit in terms of looking for anything out of place.

Take a gander at the photos and let me know if there is anything I can inspect at this point.

Notice here that the left two are much wetter than the right two.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #134 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:22:49 PM »

Why not remove the sump and see if you can find that puck?
I'm sure I've heard that sound on mine. Is it not just air squeezing past the rings on compression?

stereosilence · « **Reply #135 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:44:34 PM »

Could be air. What is the sump? Is that the oil pan?

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #136 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:46:03 PM »

Quote from: stereosilence on October 16, 2012, 01:44:34 PM

Could be air. What is the sump? Is that the oil pan?

Yes.

750resurrection · « **Reply #137 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:21:52 PM »

lol - Oh man, air going past the rings and like doing a vibrasqueal...

The mystery takes another twisty.

DustyRags · « **Reply #138 on:** October 16, 2012, 06:27:12 PM »

Correct me if I missed something, but isn't it doing this even with the head off? There would be no seal to force the air past the rings.

Tews19 · « **Reply #139 on:** October 16, 2012, 07:07:20 PM »

The burn on the pistons seems odd. Usually there is build up on the entire piston correct? If you look they all look nonburnt on the same side. Maybe some with experience can brin light to that?

bollingball · « **Reply #140 on:** October 16, 2012, 07:21:56 PM »

Quote from: Tews19 on October 16, 2012, 07:07:20 PM

The burn on the pistons seems odd. Usually there is build up on the entire piston correct? If you look they all look nonburnt on the same side. Maybe some with experience can brin light to that?

could it be because that is the exh. side?
Ken

Tews19 · « **Reply #141 on:** October 16, 2012, 07:26:12 PM »

Looking at the placement of the engine, isn't the intake facing the rear wheel? If that's the case that is where the intake manifold comes from right? Like I said, I'm not sure just looks odd

750resurrection · « **Reply #142 on:** October 16, 2012, 08:44:07 PM »

Quote from: DustyRags on October 16, 2012, 06:27:12 PM

Correct me if I missed something, but isn't it doing this even with the head off? There would be no seal to force the air past the rings.

Maybe he meant crankcase pressure buildup...

DustyRags · « **Reply #143 on:** October 16, 2012, 09:34:58 PM »

Sure, but wouldn't that escape out the middle hole where the cam chain tensioner sits? I'm not sure, I haven't had mine further down than the base gasket, but it seems to me that it's all open down there, no?

scottly · « **Reply #144 on:** October 16, 2012, 09:48:01 PM »

Quote from: DustyRags on October 16, 2012, 09:34:58 PM

Sure, but wouldn't that escape out the middle hole where the cam chain tensioner sits? I'm not sure, I haven't had mine further down than the base gasket, but it seems to me that it's all open down there, no?

Correct. There will never be any pressure in the crankcase with the cam cover off.
Stereo, try removing the alternator cover; there have been several reports of the stator mounting screws coming loose on 550s, causing a similar sound when the stator rubs on the rotor.

750resurrection · « **Reply #145 on:** October 16, 2012, 10:19:18 PM »

I don't know, maybe the big cam bloated it and it got gas.

DustyRags · « **Reply #146 on:** October 16, 2012, 10:31:06 PM »

Hate when that happens!

750resurrection · « **Reply #147 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:53:51 PM »

Quote from: stereosilence on October 16, 2012, 01:15:05 PM

Ok. I got the block off today. It wasn't a terrible amount of trouble. I was just worried I would mess something up.

Anyway, I looked in the cylinders and didn't see any vertical lines that looked like a rub. I still can't see any sign of the rubber puck I lost down the hole. At this point, I am thinking about going ahead and splitting the case so I can get the whole thing sandblasted, painted, and back together. Trav-i is coming over on Thursday to help me, so hopefully he can help me out me a good bit in terms of looking for anything out of place.

Take a gander at the photos and let me know if there is anything I can inspect at this point.

Notice here that the left two are much wetter than the right two.

Thursday is tomorrow.

I'm going with this from one of my earlier posts, as I cannot see anything wrong in the pics:

" I came across a site looking up the lower end and same type of squealing thing was described, even sound from the crankshaft area and it turned out it was the stator not being seated all the way. "

Another fella mentioned that being reported several times.

But, I haven't forgotten that cam gear chip - which really seems as likely.

This is still very exciting good luck to both you guys in definitely finding out what it is.... no unsolved mysteries please.

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #148 on:** October 18, 2012, 07:52:27 AM »

Your #3 exhaust port was leaking so be sure to get new gaskets and properly align the pipe. The white areas on the pistons and intake valves indicate you timing is not set correctly and / or the advancer is not working.

750resurrection · « **Reply #149 on:** October 18, 2012, 09:40:12 AM »

Might fit in with other red herrings but by the picture something looks different with #2 piston rings - check those.

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Author Topic: After cam swap, won't start | Block off pics (Read 22462 times)

bollingball