Author Topic: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing  (Read 2654 times)

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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« on: October 03, 2012, 01:27:25 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/arts/design/frank-lloyd-wright-house-in-phoenix-faces-bulldozers.html

Say it ain't so, in our times it is fashionable to tear down something designed and built by an iconic visionary to put up more gaudy ticky-tacky.
I wrote the developer an email asking them to reconsider razing the house.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 08:58:32 PM »
It will take more than a letter....I hear the developer turned down a 2 million dollar cash offer.  Time to raid your piggybank Dukie. ;D

Offline Gordon

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 10:03:22 PM »
Looks like this might be the unfortunate end result of his son's desire to keep the property out of the public eye.  He did his job so well that it's so unknown that it's now in this situation. 

I am a big fan of Wright's work, and it's sad to know we're currently in that time period (for his work) that many great artists' work goes through where individual pieces are old enough to be forgotten and destroyed before they get the chance to become cultural heritage. 

Offline Hasenkopf

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 10:25:55 PM »
isn't that the house that was used in one of those james bond movies.  I forget the name, but it had bambi and thumper, and willard white.?
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 11:18:54 PM »
It will take more than a letter....I hear the developer turned down a 2 million dollar cash offer.  Time to raid your piggybank Dukie. ;D

Oh, I know it is mostly a useless gesture but what could a minute or two of my time hurt?
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 09:01:53 AM »
Unfortunately the only house that developers care about is the bank. We had a historic house torn down in my neighborhood and some of the ugliest condos got built in its place. They are so ugly people still comment on them.
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Offline simon#42

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 02:37:54 PM »
that is fantastic , over here we have the national trust which buys houses , paintings and artefacts that are considered part of our heritage and preserves them for the nation . does america have something similar ? if so this needs saving .

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »
but yours is different kind of old:)
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Offline simon#42

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 03:39:27 PM »
not always , and if you save this now one day it will be really old .

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 05:11:02 PM »
It's like letting a kid paint over a van Gogh. Bastards.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 07:22:35 PM by JeffSTL »

Offline MCRider

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 05:27:22 PM »
that is fantastic , over here we have the national trust which buys houses , paintings and artefacts that are considered part of our heritage and preserves them for the nation . does america have something similar ? if so this needs saving .
Yes it does, Federal and State and City level orgs. Historical Societies, National Registers, Government, quasi government and private foundations even. Problem is they can't move on a moments notice. There needs to be time, property identified, hearings to determine if it needs saving, can be saved, budgets to keep, all that good stuff. Sounds like this house was virtually a secret, and property owners have rights too. Like being able to tear stuff they own down if it doesn't suit them.

I'd like to see it saved, personally.  But if I owned it and wanted to tear it down, I'd be pissed if the government got in my way.

Can't save everything, whole country becomes a museum.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 05:30:47 PM by MCRider »
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 05:58:21 PM »
that is fantastic , over here we have the national trust which buys houses , paintings and artefact's that are considered part of our heritage and preserves them for the nation . does America have something similar ? if so this needs saving .

Generally only the most famous of places are able to receive National Landmark status and go into the care of the National Park Service. The hopes of generating local tax revenues usually trump doing anything that is right in this country. The only way most of these places are saved is if a nonprofit organization of local concerned citizens is able to purchase the property before a developer is able to get his greedy hands on it.

There is a Frank Loyd Wright house 5 minutes from my home in Kirkwood, Missouri.  It was saved by a nonprofit.  They painstakingly restored it and I believe it to be the only one to retain all of it's original furnishings and fabrics. It is amazing. The St. louis County parks department has recently partnered with them to maintain the 10.5 acres that it sits on.

2 minutes from my house is the home of President Ulysses S. Grant.  It too was saved by a nonprofit who restored it. Most of the land was bought by the Busch family(of Budweiser fame) where they built their huge estate. After many years petitioning the National Park Service took and now cares for and operates the property and museum.  Added benefit for me...the rail line Grant had built through the property is now a 9 mile bike path that will eventually connect to a network of 365 miles. So, instead of old rusty tracks sitting behind my house, thousands of people enjoy and commute on the trail.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 08:11:22 PM by JeffSTL »

Offline MCRider

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 06:05:09 PM »
We get into the issue of the proper function of government. It is not in my opinion, to do these sorts of things. It is the proper function of concerned citizens, in a private foundation type setting, to do these sorts of things.

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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 07:20:27 PM »
We get into the issue of the proper function of government. It is not in my opinion, to do these sorts of things. It is the proper function of concerned citizens, in a private foundation type setting, to do these sorts of things.

I think this is a rather recent and radical position. When these things National Parks, historic places, art, etc. are acquired by the government they become part of the national trust.  They are held and protected as important parts of our history for generations to come, to love and share.  They become ours. They are what we are and where we came from.  They represent why we love this place.  It is our society, our culture, our history.  I don't want to live in the land of I, Me, Mine.


Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 07:34:32 PM »
We get into the issue of the proper function of government. It is not in my opinion, to do these sorts of things. It is the proper function of concerned citizens, in a private foundation type setting, to do these sorts of things.

I think this is a rather recent and radical position. When these things National Parks, historic places, art, etc. are acquired by the government they become part of the national trust.  They are held and protected as important parts of our history for generations to come, to love and share.  They become ours. They are what we are and where we came from.  They represent why we love this place.  It is our society, our culture, our history.  I don't want to live in the land of I, Me, Mine.

Well yes, but if you went and read that article on how screwed up the government acted and just blew it all step by step by step you might understand why some people say stuff like that.
 The local gov there okayed the big land purchase, then they okayed parcel subdivision straight through  the FLW home in question, indicating tacit agreement with demolition... (perhaps as a nod to the son whom it was said has kept it out of the public eye).
 Then they issued the demo permit or whatever they called it, but after the late but suddenly active public outcry, they claimed the permit was issued by a lone bureaucrat in some sort of unnamed error...

 So according to just the one article it's 2 million up the yang for the developer thanks to the local gov yokels.
 I don't know about you, but if that kind of crap came down on anyone like that, I'd be calling big time fouls.

 So aside from all that, I checked out the FLW architecture there, and it was the very first time I thought hey this is really cool, the guy designed the place with an open mind and actually acted like he was free to do what he wanted. I actually got that impression.
 I think it was because it was for his son, so he could do whatever he wanted, instead of conforming to government and public "restrictions and expectations".

 I think also the gov is up on taking a lot more than it used to and keeps increasing it's reaches in nearly all areas so people are getting real sick of it, so I do sympathize with the other persons position you called "recently radical", which it isn't either, it's just as valid as the collective we posterity stance.

 Enough of politics sorry, I just wanted to let you know why it might elicit a reaction and why the government screwing up so badly over and over again is not cool, especially with that 1st cool work by Frank Lloyd Wright I've ever seen.


PS - Yeah Dukie I said it, the very first Frank Lloyd Wright work that was worth a damn. Freedom man.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 07:41:22 PM by 750resurrection »

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 08:05:27 PM »
750resurection, This is the Wright house near me. The Krause House. Maybe you will think it's cool, too. If you were to go there I think you would be impressed.

http://www.hectv.org/programs/series/american-arts-experience/1819/frank-lloyd-wright-house-in-ebsworth-park/

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 08:17:07 PM »
Yeah, watched the video but it didn't do anything for me. We've got some homes that look like that around the park here.

 You may be correct that walking up to it and in it might do something for me, don't know. They showed Robie House too, of Chicago, quickly... blah... there was some recent controversy on that too - it hasn't been kept up.

 I know I haven't seen all FLW works, but now at least I can say I've seen one that actually appeared to be something worth talking about or bringing up to begin with. The rest have not.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2012, 08:58:56 PM »
Yeah was never a fan of the Robie house and Frank Loyd Wright is not my favorite designer. I love Mies Van der Rohe. Never miss a chance to see the Farnsworth House in Plano, IL. Not too far from Chicago.

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 09:50:03 PM »
Oh that's great for you I guess.

So I took a look. Best pic I quickly came across as their official site has the tiny crap as usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mies_van_der_Rohe_photo_Farnsworth_House_Plano_USA_1.jpg

Don't read !

 It's a mobile home with glass window walls on short stilts with a crappy makeshift wooden short stage for garbage music.
 LOL - it's craptastic!
(I read how it was derided even by FLW (big surprise there) as part of the commie plot and international cold heartless style).


 My theory is the usual boneheads who happen to practice a profession also happen to have the connections to the powers that be, and both scratch each others backs willingly. In between it all politics is played and leveraged for the quibbling quaffs self deluded discourse of derision vs deification. Your guy there had newspaper connections Chicago Trib I think it said, in that story of fame.

 I'm sorry I'm not the type that would go see that even if given the chance, for free. I already saw it, and it's crap, like the crap that FLW lovers peddle.
 Your guy probably has one as well that I'd actually feel was something and be impressed by, a real "freedom piece" maybe, something that was made, as corny as it may sound, out of freedom and love ( that's just my spot theory from this thread w/ the FLW secret son home) , rather than some political statement or whatever the hell they claim they think they are trying to do, with those paying for it pushing their influences deep into it, and making half the calls no doubt.

 That's just me though, cultured people with the knack should very definitely enjoy what they do feel the mastery of in the works and masters they support.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 09:54:17 PM by 750resurrection »

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 10:27:35 PM »
We get into the issue of the proper function of government. It is not in my opinion, to do these sorts of things. It is the proper function of concerned citizens, in a private foundation type setting, to do these sorts of things.

I'm going to say something here quoting you because there's something else I just realized.
You ever notice how these big *** government connected people power artsy fartsy "heritage" wannabe movements really don't give a damn about anyone ?
 I mean the son and his wife did not want this house as a public museum and it's like one house the guy made for his son, you'd think these collective gov connected owners of everything would have some couth, some restraint or just one ******* drop of respect for FLW and his family/heirs and leave them one ****** piece of design they could have and die with, without the entire affair becoming a public gawking session and "fight for saving from loss".

 Okay, that's what i think. I'm not saying you think it, I just didn't want to say it directly to those here supporting saving the place the way it's being done because they might not have read the whole piece and not have any idea and stuff. The people close to the whole deal ought to have a da** drop of decency though.
 I hope it gets wiped because it's FLW's greatest work and it's just and also an honor that it goes to the grave with his son and the wife there as for the family, not for the public.  ;D

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2012, 01:01:49 AM »
That is a shame, over here we have similar laws to Britain, but the penalties for going ahead and demolishing a house listed by the National trust is pretty minor, in the grand scheme of things. When I was still in the Regular Army, I had to move my unit from a Historic mansion called "Grosvenor" on the outskirts of the city, to a new building in one of the larger metro Army bases.

Part of my job was to escort prospective buyers around the building and grounds. This was a beautiful old place over 100 years old, set on a couple of acres across the road from Albert Park, where Australia's F1 GP is held each year. The place was a bit run down, but structually sound, and back then (1998) the price tag was around 2 million bucks.

I'd been told that the "buyer of choice" was Michael O'Brien, of O'Brien Catering. Michael had just sold his catering concession at the MCG for many milions of dollars, so he wanted to buy the house and restore it back to it's former glory. He brought his wife with him, and they were great people and told me that if they were the successful buyers, they'd invite my headquarter staff back for a party once the renovations were complete. I really hoped they'd get it.

The next guy to visit was Lindsay Fox, of Linfox Transport fame. Lindsay and I had some history back then, as I'd done some part time security work for him a few years before. Lindsay is a decent enough bloke for a billionaire, but when it comes to business, he's got no morals. I asked him what he was going to do with the place, and he explained that he'd convert the main building to office space, and he'd pull down the heritage listed ball room and stables, rip up the gardens, and build a 7 story office block in their place.

I was horrified, and I foolishly said, "You can't do that Lindsay, it's protected", to which he just about wet himself laughing, and told me, "Terry my lad, do you know what the fine is? It's 25 thousand bucks, so I'll just add that to the selling price when it's all finished." And that's exactly what he did. For "political" reasons, (Lindsay's company had just missed out on a lucrative defence contract and was threatening to sue the federal government) Lindsay became the "preferred buyer" over the O'Brien family, and the rumour was that he bought the house for 1 whole dollar. I drove past it recently, and almost cried. Cheers, Terry. ;D     
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Offline kirkn

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2012, 03:38:35 AM »
isn't that the house that was used in one of those james bond movies.  I forget the name, but it had bambi and thumper, and willard white.?

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From that front entryway shot, it DOES look a little like it.  But in the slideshow, it maybe doesn't, not so much.  Good spot, though.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 03:56:48 AM by kirkn »

Offline TwoBigCats

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Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2012, 05:22:19 AM »
but yours is different kind of old:)
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2012, 06:04:38 AM »
isn't that the house that was used in one of those james bond movies.  I forget the name, but it had bambi and thumper, and willard white.?

Diamonds Are Forever!

From that front entryway shot, it DOES look a little like it.  But in the slideshow, it maybe doesn't, not so much.  Good spot, though.

The Wyte house in Diamonds are Forever is known as the Elrod House by architecg John Lautner. It is in Palm Springs a hot bed for mid-century modern homes.I think he designed Bob Hope's home there, too.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Wright House in Phoenix faces possible razing
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2012, 06:10:39 AM »
Not saying they can or can't or should or shouldn't tear it down. Just that what ever is built in it's place will be a pile of #$%* in comparison and whoever tears it down is a dick. :)