Author Topic: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?  (Read 13512 times)

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Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2012, 10:25:33 AM »
lol - okay thank you for that.

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2012, 10:50:57 AM »
Not all of my cars/bikes have been bad to me.  Ive owned 53 cars and bikes over the past 30 years.   My 71 and 70 Torino's never once faltered. 
I'm thinking that taking a torque wrench to the advance bolt on my crank is not a typical item to be checked.  In hindsight it is but in the real world it is not.  How many people on here have done it as part of a routine check?  Also I had it in the shop for a look over a few weeks ago and while at the show we both timed the bike.  The mechanic never thought to check the torque on this either.  it is such a rare thing to happen I don't think many people would ever give it a second thought.

I am not asking anyone to feel sorry for me.  Equally I am not sure why 750resurrection feels the need to be hostile.

Yeah, well, I guess your first post elicited all the "hostility" in the thread.
I did in fact check and torque up my advance and the outer reverso nut on my pile (that means the 750) as part of course of the natural timing check set up.
, the motor bolts, chain tension bolts, axle bolts etc. etc.

I guess my idea is if you found reamed out idles, a little extra caution - whatever.

Well then claiming it is a rare problem ( maybe it is ), not sure how timing without pulling the plate and checking the advance works...

Ok whatever.

 I blew up my '71 Gran Torino. Fords engines were crap. I blew it up twice. The replacement I put in smoked and chirped the tires in first and second getting on the gas and off the gas (oh was that cool), and it had glass packs ( were on there when I got it ). It was far too much fun while it lasted. Former owner told me CJ6 transmission as I recall.
 It could have been trouble, should have been, but never was. ( the out of town officer, late at night pull over with GF along, told me it had glass packs on it and those were " illegal in town " ).

 Yeah I agree you never asked for sympathy, but a lot of members were commiserating with you.
 I don't feel it. Not one bit, no freaking way. Not.
 Let's get real, all those freaking vehicles under your belt... I'd say commiserating with you was an (unknowing) act that now appears laughable.

 You'll do (or better yet have done) whatever you want for repairs with the Honda. That is clear.
 Your fault though, and that mechanic sucks.

PS - if you do the in the place repair for the advance I'd love to hear how that turns out.
 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 11:03:44 AM by 750resurrection »

Offline Viktor.J

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2012, 11:07:18 AM »
Of course its sad when things break or fail.

But in US everything is so cheap that, for 3000 $ I get what most of you guys get for 800-1200$.

Be glad at what you have, in another country/market perhaps you wouldn't even have the money to fail  8)
Please ! Take a look and give me feedback in my project thread, its much needed :)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112745.0

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Offline Mainerider

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2012, 11:31:55 AM »
I repair and restore primarily vintage bikes as a sideline; At home I have a full-size mc lift, 2 car garage and virtually every mc-specific tool imaginable.  So, with that background, I will offer you my opinion: Some bikes are not worth spending your child's inheritance on. Given the laundry list of the items you need (and we all know that what you initially see is always just the tip of the iceberg), and given the amount you have spent already, I would move on to a bike in better condition.  These are fun bikes to learn on but as with all vintage bikes, they can nickel and dime you from here to eternity; Starting out with a good basic platform is essential if you don't want to end up having $3k in a $1,500 bike.

If your primary goal of owning a vintage bike is to ride a vintage bike and not as a means of cutting your teeth, mechanically speaking, you should find a bike that is either in great shape from the start or find a bike that someone else has already blown their financial brains out getting right. 

Personally, even with all the tools and knowledge, I've had my fill of owning the vintage stuff; I am happy to work on them for others but to have one as a daily rider...the thrill is gone. However, I do understand why many people love them. For me, though, I've just replaced too many stators, rotors, RRs, head gaskets, valve stem seals, fork seals, etc. to still have the desire to wrench on a vintage bike of my own.  Either way, good luck with your decision.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 12:33:16 PM by Mainerider »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2012, 11:40:10 AM »
A machine is only as good as it's designer and its mechanic.
The design of the SOHC4 is well proven and reliable.  Which leaves the mechanic/maintenance of the machine as the dominant variable.

I gotta say, if you expected to buy a 30-40 year old machine and not do any corrective maintenance on it, the fault is yours.
If you assumed all the maintenance that was done to a bike (that looked to be in poor condition) had survived unscathed since new, I'd say you had the wrong expectations from the start.
If a bike looks bad, the outward signal beacon is that the bike was NOT well cared for.  The fact that someone got rid of it rather than doing or paying what it takes to make it good, should also have been a clue.

You clearly (in retrospect) paid far too much for the bike.  (I've gotten bikes for "free" that I paid too much for, btw.)  And, it is your examination before purchase that is at fault.  I mean, if it superficially looks bad, and you do only a superficial pre-purchase inspection, can you really expect to find a 30-40 year old diamond hidden under the ragged skin?

No machine "loves" it owner.  It is not treating you badly.  It is doing everything it is capable of under the laws of physics.  It needs what it needs to operate reliably and you either meet those requirements, or abandon it.  ANY feelings associated with the machine are yours, which you either control or experience as they arrive.

If you are unable to work on it yourself, then you should expect to pay a "living" wage to whoever does the work for you and without complaint as to "costs".  This fact alone is why these bikes are available.  Someone didn't want to pay for it's upkeep and care anymore, and you assumed those chores when you acquired this machine example.


"Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?"
Fundamentally, no.
Was it a dumb idea for YOU to buy a SOHC4 bike with the assumption that it was in equal condition, under the skin, to one off the showroom floor?   Yes!
Was it a dumb idea for you to assume that obvious external neglect didn't extend inside the machine under it's facade?  Oh Yes!

Part of what you buy in a vintage SOHC4 is the discovery process of all the good and bad things that have been done to it since it was new, and most of them don't have a maintenance record book that notes it all before purchase.
When I acquire one, I do my best to make sure all the new things done to it are a step toward restoring toward the famous reliability it had when new.
I can love them.  I don't expect them to love me back.  If it breaks or wears out, it's simply my job to force the machine back into submission toward it's design.

I've had machines (and still have one) where the whack-a-mole game is in full play.  Fix one problem and another one comes up.  I call it the "drama queen" because it is never 100%. And, you just never know when something else is going to go bad that you simply didn't expect (not anything close to routine maintenance).   The good news is that the assemblage of parts does seem to make it to wherever it is pointed.  Just not with any peace of mind for the driver.   Much of it stems from the designer's lack of insight regarding reliability and the pervasive lack of concern for it's operation past the warranty time limit.
Still, it's my fault for picking my projection of what I thought it should be over what the machine actually is.  One day I'll get tired of yet another correction to it beyond routine, and sell the thing to the next person that will let it all deteriorate to dust, or keep up with it's foibles.  Today, I can only say, that when it works, it danged fun.  But, enjoy the moment, as it will certainly pass, if past behavior is any means for prediction.


Finally, I have to question if you bought the bike to be seen with it, or to fully experience ownership of the vehicle's operation traits.  If the former, make it look pretty and take lot's of pictures for the photo album for later nostalgia, and then sell it off.  If the latter, find a different hopeful example, or bend this one to your will of making it "like new" by repairing what's been done to it over the years, the things that you didn't know about before purchase.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tews19

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2012, 05:46:25 PM »
Well said TT..
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1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

bollingball

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2012, 06:01:02 PM »
I don't keep up with the money if I don't plan on selling. It is just for the fun. I knew after the first year I was past the point of no return.  My bike has never let me down. Maybe because the first thing I did was take it apart and clean ever thing up. Wires,brakes,fuel system,bearings,chain&sprockets and so on. To me it is a mistake to fix one thing you see then try to ride and wait for the next thing to break fix it and keep going on like that. A drill Sargent told me one time many years a go. (you got to get your mind right boy) My thought is if you can not afford it sell it and find another hobby.

Ken

Offline knowsnothing

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2012, 06:08:05 PM »
Magilla I live just outside Manchester NH and have been a machinist for 20 years and a mechanic 40 years. I doubt you need to replace the crank. PM me with your info.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Anders

Old man Anders knows his #$%*. ;D  I would def take him up on his offer.

-treeve

1978 CB750k Green - 811 engine
1978 CB750k Blue - for sale
1974 CB375F Faded Black - had to have that 6th gear
1976 CB400F Red - in many pieces
1973 CB350F TBD - in many pieces

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2012, 06:10:22 PM »
I've had lots of bikes, and cars. Some were real nightmares with unexpected 'stuff' that needed fixing, etc.
But, IMO: I would rather have a rusted, corroded, sat-in-the-rain-30-years SOHC4 bike than any other I know of, still. Once finished up, they are hard to beat for low maintenance and sheer enjoyment.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2012, 06:47:07 PM »
I don't keep up with the money if I don't plan on selling. It is just for the fun. I knew after the first year I was past the point of no return.  My bike has never let me down. Maybe because the first thing I did was take it apart and clean ever thing up. Wires,brakes,fuel system,bearings,chain&sprockets and so on. To me it is a mistake to fix one thing you see then try to ride and wait for the next thing to break fix it and keep going on like that. A drill Sargent told me one time many years a go. (you got to get your mind right boy) My thought is if you can not afford it sell it and find another hobby.

Ken

I understand that lately the prices have really gone up on these bikes in some cases - I saw like 6 mo or a year or so in the threads discussions about that.

 However I would like to note that there isn't really a vehicle anywhere that people don't almost immediately start sinking more money into than they ever expect to get out of it or to have as a market value if they keep it. (some collectors stuff doesn't fit that pattern sometimes)
 Right off the showroom floor it's downhill from there.

 One has to be really lucky to break even on used anything lest they specialize like say cars with blown head gaskets going for cheap or something like that.

 It's always a losing game on vehicles and that really has nothing to do with the SOHC Hondas specifically as like everyone probably knows here.

 Yeah some exceptions like getting handed a non starter and knowing enough to get it going then dumping it quick for a profit is an exception to that general rule.
 Overall though and most often by far it's more money in than it's marketable value.
 That condition starts the second one buys it.
 That includes doing all the work yourself and scouting for cheap parts, and it costs a lot more farming out the work to garage pros, so it's like it's just bound to happen.

Offline apehanger 550

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2012, 04:19:19 AM »
"Had it not been for this forum,I may have set my bike on fire"        Now that looks like a tag line to me... 8)
To me, working on old bikes should be something fun to do. When I'm not having fun, I walk away.

Stick the bike in a corner, cover it up, and forget it even exists for a month (or however long you choose).

After your cooling off period, pull it out and reevaluate things.

Had it not been for finding this forum, I may have set my bike on fire.

Trust me, once you get the bike to the point where you can drive it somewhere and drive it back home, all the aggravation will be worth it (even though I know there still is a ton of stuff to fix).

Good luck .

Offline Magilla

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2012, 08:05:08 AM »
Now that I have had some time to calm down, I'm ready to look at this again.  I dint want to see this bike crushed or cut.  It still has the original air box and exhaust and is 95% stock.  It would be a shame to see it get destroyed.  Yes it needs a lot to be perfect but i guess that's OK.  The motor is a major setback but hopefully it will be just that, a setback.  Everyone had asked me what it was I thought I was going to do with the bike when I bought it.  What did I want out of it.  My original intent was to do what I call a Refreshtoration.  Part refresh and part Restoration.  A mild combination of both.  A motor rebuild was not part of the original vision.

Now its a question of what do to?

Option 1
through common sense to the wind and rebuild the motor.  redo every nut and bolt.  this is the most expensive option but will have the biggest impact on the bike.  It should bring it back to being bullet proof as well as becoming a gleaming focal point of the bike.

Option 2
slap in a Donner motor and keep with the Refreshtoration project.  What will this do?  Does it ruin the bike by having a non original motor in it?  If its just about riding and enjoying the bike this is certainly a cheaper way to go about it. 

Option 3
Allow one of the fine people in this forum to save me from myself and help me fix what I have.  This option seems the least risky.  not much to lose but a little time and a little money.  One I have and the other I will have to ask my wife for ;) 

Option 4
put this bike away and buy another bike.  Save it for a project on a different day.  This option seems like the least fun but it would save it form being hacked up.
1972   Honda CB350
1972   Yamaha 500
1982   Yamaha 650
1988   Harley Sportster 883
1983   HD FXR Shovelhead
2003   HD Heritage Softail
2006   Victory Vegas Jackpot
1980   Honda CB650
1976   Honda CB750K
1982   Honda CB750
1964   Honda CA95
1982   Kawasaki 550
1974   Honda CL360
1975   Suzuki GT550
1981   Honda CB750
1981   Honda CB750
1970   Norton Commando
1972   Yamaha U7E
1970   BMW R50/5
1976   Honda CB750F

Offline 750resurrection

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2012, 08:40:01 AM »
Hey Magilla.  :D

 Friction free buddy.

 Um, of course your call but I'm voting for at least a partial #3 right away. I'm thinking the crank tapping fix is a must try and would possibly get you on the road for some fun for a bit, make the bike sell or store without that sour taste thing going on.

 Right ? I mean more work and time and effort otherwise... will be some anyway with your overall plan.

 If the fix fails, you're not out much and can bite the bullet in some alternate/continuing decision.

 I can't see not attempting the fix. So grain of salt of course... but if it works doesn't that relieve a lot of pressure ?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2012, 08:50:17 AM »
In my case I just did what I could to get the bike roadworthy. I'd like it to be stockish but I don't mind aftermarket if it gets me on the road, or even bits from other bikes. I'll make my improvements as the opportunities arise. I love running a SOHC4.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline DustyRags

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2012, 08:50:53 AM »
That's the spirit! Remember, those are not all mutually exclusive. I'd start with #3 and see how it goes. Then maybe rebuild it this winter or next winter or something. It's much easier to pull something apart that's basically functional than something that you've never seen work right. You could even get a donor motor, slap that in, and keep the old one, completely restore it from the nuts and bolts up, but continue riding in the meantime!

Talk to Greggo, his Motherlode thread went up on the Sales forum a while back- he scored a whole bunch of old motors and stuff, and has been parting them out at quite reasonable prices. Might be worth talking to him about. If you can get hole of a motor cheap, drop it in and ride it for a bit, you can take your time on the restoration, and then put that back in and resell the motor. A bit of money up front, but in the end you'll be out the value loss on the motor, and not the whole price of it.
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline anders288

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2012, 08:58:10 AM »
How can you make an informed decision without having it evaluated by an expert.

Offline Mooshie

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2012, 09:11:57 AM »
I would go with #3 also.  I purchased mine in the end of 2009 and am lucky enough to have a mechanic in town that lets me work in his shop and he double checks the things I do to the bike (or helps me break free a bolt, screw, etc when I don't have the strength :o don't start making fun of me now fellows I am a girl).  But basically I do all the work. I have learned so much about this bike and I love it.  I think that having the security that I am not really going to screw something up also makes me feel more confident.  So move forward with #3 and get it properly evaluated (like anders said)
1976 CB550F
Standard disclaimer: Remember I am just a girl--so be nice fellows!

Offline Magilla

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2012, 11:02:02 AM »
How can you make an informed decision without having it evaluated by an expert.

Anders,  I'm glad you ask that question.  It looks like you may be the expert that I have evaluate it.  :)
1972   Honda CB350
1972   Yamaha 500
1982   Yamaha 650
1988   Harley Sportster 883
1983   HD FXR Shovelhead
2003   HD Heritage Softail
2006   Victory Vegas Jackpot
1980   Honda CB650
1976   Honda CB750K
1982   Honda CB750
1964   Honda CA95
1982   Kawasaki 550
1974   Honda CL360
1975   Suzuki GT550
1981   Honda CB750
1981   Honda CB750
1970   Norton Commando
1972   Yamaha U7E
1970   BMW R50/5
1976   Honda CB750F

Offline anders288

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2012, 11:50:03 AM »
PM me with your contact onfo.

Offline Bailgang

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2012, 02:54:39 PM »

I understand that lately the prices have really gone up on these bikes in some cases - I saw like 6 mo or a year or so in the threads discussions about that.

 However I would like to note that there isn't really a vehicle anywhere that people don't almost immediately start sinking more money into than they ever expect to get out of it or to have as a market value if they keep it. (some collectors stuff doesn't fit that pattern sometimes)
 Right off the showroom floor it's downhill from there.

 One has to be really lucky to break even on used anything lest they specialize like say cars with blown head gaskets going for cheap or something like that.

 It's always a losing game on vehicles and that really has nothing to do with the SOHC Hondas specifically as like everyone probably knows here.

 Yeah some exceptions like getting handed a non starter and knowing enough to get it going then dumping it quick for a profit is an exception to that general rule.
 Overall though and most often by far it's more money in than it's marketable value.
 That condition starts the second one buys it.
 That includes doing all the work yourself and scouting for cheap parts, and it costs a lot more farming out the work to garage pros, so it's like it's just bound to happen.

I'd have to agree with that. I know of only 1 person who's actually made a decent profit from restoring a car and that was my uncle. In the early 70's he bought a 70 Shelby GT500 convertible that had en electrical fire and needed a lot of TLC and by sheer luck he got it before Mustang and Shelby prices started to go nuts. He had it for a number of years then sold it in the late 70's making a tidy profit due to it's collector value that it had built up since he bought it then turned around and bought a 69 Boss 429 for $10k. He had the Boss till around 2001 until some millionaire in Colorado had to have it, it wasn't actually for sale so the guy had to give my uncle a sweet offer. My uncle never told me how much he sold it for, all he did was smile and say he got more than what it was worth. Not even my cousins know how much it sold for.

Rags Boss 429 Mustang Cruise Night 1990.
Scott


71 cb350 twin
77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline Magilla

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2012, 03:32:15 PM »
The selling price for the Boss 429 was a lot.  They are ultra rare and hand made.  Ive see 3 in my life time.  The funny thing is that they were a flop.  The valves were so big they had nothing off the line.  You had to get them reving before they had any performance.  On the oval they were to nose heavy and they plowed through the corners.  It was a blessing for Ford that NASCAR made the changes they did and the car never ended up being discovered as a flop.  With that said I would love to have one in my garage.  Instead I have a Maverick and a Honda.
1972   Honda CB350
1972   Yamaha 500
1982   Yamaha 650
1988   Harley Sportster 883
1983   HD FXR Shovelhead
2003   HD Heritage Softail
2006   Victory Vegas Jackpot
1980   Honda CB650
1976   Honda CB750K
1982   Honda CB750
1964   Honda CA95
1982   Kawasaki 550
1974   Honda CL360
1975   Suzuki GT550
1981   Honda CB750
1981   Honda CB750
1970   Norton Commando
1972   Yamaha U7E
1970   BMW R50/5
1976   Honda CB750F

Offline Bailgang

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2012, 05:13:58 PM »
Being this is a motorcycle site I won't go into detail about the Boss 429 and you're right, it was a dud low end torque wise due to it's massive intake ports though the one in the vid was godawful fast on top end. What I will say but I doubt you'll believe me and I have no way to prove it is that at the time that vid was taken that Boss had well over 100k on the odometer and pushing 200k by the time he sold it. It was literally his daily driver in the summer and the only time it was parked was in the winter or when the engine was out for a rebuild. He was real particular about oil pressure so any time he started seeing a drop in oil pressure, the engine came out. That's why the buyer in Colorado wanted it because at the time he sold it it was the only known Boss 429 that not only was in turn key driveable condition but was still actually being driven regularly.
Scott


71 cb350 twin
77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline Magilla

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Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2012, 12:42:17 PM »
For those of you who think you re know it alls and think its possible to rechase the threads with the crank in place . . . . You are correct on both points.  It can be done.  It has been done and get this, the lipped seal was NOT junk.  Replacing the timing advance bolt fixed the leak.   

Thanks to all for the advice, words of encouragement and the reality slaps in the face. 
1972   Honda CB350
1972   Yamaha 500
1982   Yamaha 650
1988   Harley Sportster 883
1983   HD FXR Shovelhead
2003   HD Heritage Softail
2006   Victory Vegas Jackpot
1980   Honda CB650
1976   Honda CB750K
1982   Honda CB750
1964   Honda CA95
1982   Kawasaki 550
1974   Honda CL360
1975   Suzuki GT550
1981   Honda CB750
1981   Honda CB750
1970   Norton Commando
1972   Yamaha U7E
1970   BMW R50/5
1976   Honda CB750F

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
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  • Posts: 34,480
  • Central Texas
Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2012, 12:48:19 PM »
Good news.  Now what?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline madmtnmotors

  • When did I get to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,117
  • Sunny Central Florida
Re: Was it a dumb idea to buy a SOHC4 bike?
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2012, 02:02:31 PM »
For those of you who think you re know it alls and think its possible to rechase the threads with the crank in place . . . . You are correct on both points.  It can be done.  It has been done and get this, the lipped seal was NOT junk.  Replacing the timing advance bolt fixed the leak.   

Thanks to all for the advice, words of encouragement and the reality slaps in the face. 

Even the small victories are rewarding. Welcome to the club, there's no hope for you now!

TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!