Topic: Timing issues, what does this mean

[Fearthepack]

New to me 1973 CB500f. Going through the 3000 mile checkup,
1. adjusted valves
2. cam chain
3. Static gap adjustment set to .013 (did not replace points with new)
4. Setting timing with a timing light while engine running, timing clamp around #4 plug wire, RPM at 1200.

Results = the light is on and the reading through peep hole shows 1-4F  but the index mark is lining  up to the advance Marks not the 1-4F mark. Cant rotate plate anyfurther to the right and any movement to left shuts bike off.

Any difference between #1 and #4 wire selection?
Not sure where to go from here.

The bike actualy runs very good in this setup. Why?

[lucky]

New to me 1973 CB500f. Going through the 3000 mile checkup,
1. adjusted valves
2. cam chain
3. Static gap adjustment set to .013 (did not replace points with new)
4. Setting timing with a timing light while engine running, timing clamp around #4 plug wire, RPM at 1200.

Results = the light is on and the reading through peep hole shows 1-4F  but the index mark is lining  up to the advance Marks not the 1-4F mark. Cant rotate plate anyfurther to the right and any movement to left shuts bike off.

Any difference between #1 and #4 wire selection?
Not sure where to go from here.

The bike actualy runs very good in this setup. Why?

You need to read the manual.
The timing light should show the advance mark when it is running at 2500 rpms or over.
At idle the F mark should be lining up.
If it is always on the advance mark it can mean the advance mechanism is rusty and stuck or has a broken spring.

QUOTE:
Any difference between #1 and #4 wire selection?

Yes. When you have the  12 light or volt/ohm meter you need to be clipped on to #1 or #4 depending on which set of points you are checking.

Using the volt/ohm meter on the ohms x 1000 scale (key off) gets a better result and then the new points do not just sit on the mark and sizzle.

Check the dwell with a dwell meter. If you do not you can have weak spark from worn out points, even though they fire at the right time.

[Killer Canary]

Too Tired wrote an essay on this. It's because the slots in the plate are slightly large allowing slop when adjusting. It needs to be shimmed.

[Fearthepack]

Lucky I am reading the manual. #1 and #4 wires are for one set of points and #2 and #3 wires control other set of points. Looks like it doesn't matter 1 or 4 for timing light. F is not lining up at 1200 rpms so will look at advance springs to see if hanging up.

Killer "C" would new points fix what too tired is referring to?

[lucky]

Lucky I am reading the manual. #1 and #4 wires are for one set of points and #2 and #3 wires control other set of points. Looks like it doesn't matter 1 or 4 for timing light. F is not lining up at 1200 rpms so will look at advance springs to see if hanging up.

Killer "C" would new points fix what too tired is referring to?

Yes, One set of points fires two cylinders at the same time on this bike.
I would check that advance mechanism and see if it is frozen.
You are on the right track.

Look at the contact points to see if they are pitted.
One side may have holes (pitts) and the other side may have mounds of metal
built up on it. If so, then you will not be able to set them with a thickness gauge.

If you had a dwell meter it would help.
Replace the condensers when you replace the points. Otherwise your new points may not last long.

[Fearthepack]

Thanks will check advance tonight. Also reading the Daiichi points cause this exact condition.

[Bodi]

Reading the manual is always a good start!
This sounds like the advancer is stuck. Not being able to adjust 1-4 close to F is unusual even with the dreaded Daichi points. The motor will be pretty hard to start with full advance, and idle poorly.
Check your points gap, if this is way out you will have the problem described.
If you have trouble getting 2-3 to time up after 1-4 is correct, or you have trouble with the timing jumping all over when you try to rotate the plate for 1--4 then check that the plate is not sloppy. It should be loose enough in the mounting ears to turn but not move around much at all.

[Fearthepack]

You know as I sit here I think the problem is the 1200 rpm idle. Maybe should be like 900. Don't remember reading that anywhere. But maybe at 1200 it is advancing already way past the 1-4F index. The bike starts right up and runs very smooth with crisp throttle responce, so will check lower idle 1st and check advance movement next then sloppiness.

[Fearthepack]

OK no difference on idle from 900 rpm up to 1200 rpms. The manual states 1000 - 1200 to set timing. Still can't get the 1-4F index to lineup. Would anyone suspect one tooth off on timing chain?

[Bodi]

The timing chain only affects valve timing, the points assembly is on the crankshaft.

[Fearthepack]

Forgot to mention advancer moving just fine and no noticeable sloppiness in plate. Where do I go from here?

[Fearthepack]

After reading more posts on gap setting I think I maybe off. The manual shows a pic where the 1-4F index marks lineup to set gap. But apparently you go beyond that mark to the widest gap and set from that position regardless what is showing in the peephole. Correct?

[bollingball]

I am not sure about the 500F if the book says .013 then make sure that is what you have. Are you using a flat blade or wire gauge? Like Lucky said a dwell meter is handy to check once you have it set right. You can get one at Sears about $30.00. Once you get 1-4 set then use the dwell meter to set 2-3 to match 1-4. I only use the TEC points from Honda. They will last for years if the bike is well maintained. It does not matter if you have the light clamped on 1 or 4 if that is the set of points you are checking. Just for the heck of it change the points gap and then look at the timing to see how it changes. Then you will see how the setting of the points changes the timing.
Ken

[lucky]

Actually the book says .012-.016..... but just start it at .012 thousandths.

You want the gap as small as possible because over time the gap will get larger as the plastic rubbing on the points cam causes it to degrade to a larger gap.

Also make sure to wipe the points cam with acetone and get it clean .IT can have a coating of burned on grease. If you use a dwell meter you can see the dwell fluctuate when the points cam is dirty.

Put disc brake grease on the points cam (just a little) because the disc brake grease is good up to 1000ºF.

When the dwell meter needle is rock steady you know the points cam is clean.
You got to have that dwell meter.

[bollingball]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00902165000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=31-39810748-2

Sears Dwell Tach Meter

Ken