Topic: Heated vest current draw - Cb750

[Prospect]

Do you guys think that a 2.1 Amp current draw from a heated vest will kill my battery? 100 % city riding with the headlight off. I'm making my own heated vest and so far that is the draw I'm getting. I can always put in a rheostat to limit the current but I havent gotten that far.  From my calculations tests about 25 watts which is less than the headlight output so I should be ok.

[DJ_AX]

huh .. no replies here yet. I'll chime in although it's not the answer to your question....
A couple of years ago I was considering electric heating. (still am, sort of)
Enough power? IDK... As long as your elect. system is clean and working properly... maybe.
I'd want to control the level for sure though. If not to save juice then at least to keep from catching on fire.

Then I discovered that a windshield makes 20F+ degrees difference. With that and a few layers of good ol' warm clothes, I can ride comfortably for 45 minutes down to about 35F degrees.

[MCRider]

My wife bot me a Widder heated vest in 1985. Before i was smart enough to care if it could handle the draw. When I rode my CB750K2 from 1985 to 1995, I used it whenever i felt the need. Never any problem with the battery. headlight on all the time. I think it is 35watts.

I also used it on my HawkGT, and even my 305 SuperHawk. No problem, lights on.  My FJR too, but one wouldn't expect any problem with that.

One thing to remember is that the vest will be rated at a max draw. If you actually ran it at that level for an extended period, and low RPMs, you might have a problem.  You will also be one overcooked piece of meat, they can be really hot. So turn the vest down. I seldom turned mine up over half way. If you're in slow traffic or such, you'll need to turn it down anyway as they are hotter when there is no wind chill to drag the temp down.

Advice: DO IT. It is such an unbelieveable luxury, I am truly amazed that more people don't have one. On the touring and sport touring sites they are standard ridiing equipment, in season.

Windshields and hand guards help too, but they are passive. If you get a chill with a vest, just crank it up for a few minutes and you'll be in comfort again.  Imagine riding with a well fitting electric blanket. You'll never go without it again.

[jason41987]

heated gloves wouldnt be a bad idea either, much of the heat transfer in the human body is through the hands, they work like a heat sink which is why you see people naturally hold them in front of a fire to keep warm

[MCRider]

I've had the heated gloves. If you have a long sleeve vest, they plug into the vest. Without that, there is a harness that you thread through your jacket sleeves. WAY too much trouble.

I've used these:
http://motorcycle-accessories.cruisercustomizing.com/accessories/National%20Cycle%20Hand%20Deflectors?utm_campaign=sitechampion&utm_medium=sli&utm_source=google
to great effect. Mini windshields for your hands. Bolts to the mirror mount, easy on and off. Can be moved to other bikes.

Also had the SYMTEC heated grips. Snowmobile tech, very effective. On my wife's ZL600. She wore a vest also. No charging problems. Use grips of your choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Symtec-Motorcycle-Handle-Warmer-210019RR/dp/B001AWRCJO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1351873447&sr=8-6&keywords=motorcycle+heated+grips

[Prospect]

So I took the home made vest for a 20 min test run around the area and found it to work quite well.  The only thing is that you have to remember to disconnect when getting off the bike.  It was all city riding wihtout the headlight and I noticed just a slight decrease in the battery voltage after the ride.  I'll do a bit longer ride next week to see if it'll hold after a longer ride.  It was 40F here.  For added comfort and to protect the hands I think I'll pull out an old Calafia fearing I have somewhere. 

MCRider.  I didn't realize they had heated vests back in 1985?

[MCRider]

So I took the home made vest for a 20 min test run around the area and found it to work quite well.  The only thing is that you have to remember to disconnect when getting off the bike.  It was all city riding wihtout the headlight and I noticed just a slight decrease in the battery voltage after the ride.  I'll do a bit longer ride next week to see if it'll hold after a longer ride.  It was 40F here.  For added comfort and to protect the hands I think I'll pull out an old Calafia fearing I have somewhere. 

MCRider.  I didn't realize they had heated vests back in 1985?

Mine was/is a Widder. Still use the same one. Mr Widder has since retired. Pretty much a one man show, he elevated it to an art. His major competitor was and survives still Gerbing: "In 1976 Gordon founded Gerbing's Heated Clothing, Inc. For the first 10 years of the business Gordon spent more time running his machine shop, but slowly the demand and interest in his heated clothing began to grow. Finally, in the late 1980's Gordon's "hobby" became his full-time passion."

http://gerbing.com/aboutUs.php

I imagine as long as an alternator put out excess current somebody was playing around with heated clothing.

Ah here it is. Widder started in 1971. The site now just sells off whatever inventory is left. Cords and connectors and stuff. He was an odd duck and never grew the business past what he could handle on his own, and had no one to sell it to. Or maybe he didn't want to sell it. It was top of the line. I talked to him a couple of times over the years squeezzing door prizes out of him for various club rides I sponsored.

http://www.widder.com/

Mines a System II with the high neck. Its wired, toasty.
http://www.ibaestore.com/products.asp?MainCatID=2&CategoryID=53&

[Prospect]

Mines a System II with the high neck. Its wired, toasty.
http://www.ibaestore.com/products.asp?MainCatID=2&CategoryID=53&

I guess by the early to mid 70 the stators started to become more powerful and reliable.  The K0 and sandcast had a bigger output than the later k's so he saw a market.  Those Widder prices from ironbut are VERY good but it looks like they are for members only. Judging by your experience they last a very long time. 

[MCRider]

Mines a System II with the high neck. Its wired, toasty.
http://www.ibaestore.com/products.asp?MainCatID=2&CategoryID=53&

I guess by the early to mid 70 the stators started to become more powerful and reliable.  The K0 and sandcast had a bigger output than the later k's so he saw a market.  Those Widder prices from ironbut are VERY good but it looks like they are for members only. Judging by your experience they last a very long time.

Like I said, I used it on my 305 SuperHawk which is 1968, and it worked fine. I'd love to see someone work up the math on this. But the bottom line is experience. You won't be running the vest full blast all the time. In fact, you'd be surprised how much it puts out at low setting especially if you have good wind protection on over it. The slower you go the lower you'll set it. IF you're going 30 for a while just use a lower gear and keep the revs up. My wife used hers on her GS300L also, no problem. We used to really put on the miles. Sigh

I think you'd find that if you tried to order some Widder stuff a lot of it, sizes, items etc are NLA.

[scottly]

I'm making my own heated vest and so far that is the draw I'm getting.

Please tell us how you are doing this. Are you using the elements from an electric blanket?
Btw, the headlight draws about twice that.

[Prospect]

I'm making my own heated vest and so far that is the draw I'm getting.

Please tell us how you are doing this. Are you using the elements from an electric blanket?
Btw, the headlight draws about twice that.

I've ripped apart an old car seat warmer that I'm no longer using.  Plugged into a 12v cigarette lighter that I have on the bike.  For now it's either on or off but shuts off automatically at I think 50 Celcius using the internal thermometer.  I'm going to put in a rheostat in this week.  The one I tested it on was from an old desktop computer and fried in about 20 seconds because of the high amperage.  I didn't want to spend $200 on a new one only to find out that my electrics can't handle it so this is a cheap trial. Works fine but the elements are small and only the top part of my chest and back are heated.  You're right, the headlight uses 35Watts at low beam so it doesn't seem to be an issue so far. 

[Rgconner]

I am running a Sedici (cyclegear brand) jacket that draws 55w. The digital controller has 4 settings, and appears to do an on/Off cycle of 25% each step.

So full draw for 15 seconds, then 45 off at low.

Does not appear to drain the cb550 system, despite a 45w low and the high setting, or on 3/4 of the time. That includes freeway speeds with the headlight on.
I do have the Hondaman ignition with 3ohm coils, but resistors on the coils.

I have done a lot of work getting the charging system as good as I could Get it, and it has paid off. I think I could run gloves too, but likely not at full blast.

No matter, at high it handled near freezing temps with otherwise warm gear on as well.

Crazy question: since you are farely electric savvy, could you rig it to not draw if the line voltage is less than 12v?

[Prospect]

I am running a Sedici (cyclegear brand) jacket that draws 55w. The digital controller has 4 settings, and appears to do an on/Off cycle of 25% each step.

So full draw for 15 seconds, then 45 off at low.

Does not appear to drain the cb550 system, despite a 45w low and the high setting, or on 3/4 of the time. That includes freeway speeds with the headlight on.
I do have the Hondaman ignition with 3ohm coils, but resistors on the coils.

I have done a lot of work getting the charging system as good as I could Get it, and it has paid off. I think I could run gloves too, but likely not at full blast.

No matter, at high it handled near freezing temps with otherwise warm gear on as well.

Crazy question: since you are farely electric savvy, could you rig it to not draw if the line voltage is less than 12v?

I'm surprised that a 550 can handle that. What did you do to your charging system to get it top notch?

I have a volt meter that continuously measures the voltage  supplied to the battery. I'm going to switch it so it measures the current voltage of the battery as I'm riding. If it drops below 12.3v or so I'll turn off the heated vest. It's the same thing as you suggested but a little simpler.

[phil71]

I'm surprised too. Sounds like an awful lot to ask of these old charging systems, no matter how healthy they might be. Even BMW GS touring bikes with CAR ALTERNATORS are taxed pretty hard by these. Didn't honda make some insane exhaust heat exchanger setup for some of their tiddlers?

[Rgconner]

What I did was trace every wire and did a resistance reading and replaced any that showed to be an issue. I cleaned contacts and ground wires and coated with contact grease.

I also bypassed the ignition switch and headlight controls with relays, which was probably the biggest improvement. I also replaced turn/brake signal bulbs with LED, which saves a surprising amount of wattage. Hard to say, but I calculated about 20w, or 4w per bulb. The LEDs are rated at 4w and the 1157sI pulled are 9 normal and 27 when blinking.
 

A voltmeter shows me at 12.65v at the end of rides, so I am generating enough power to hold the battery fully charged.
 
The load from the jacket is only 55w, and I don't have the gloves, although those are only 15w. I could probably run them.

I think one of the reasons is that the draw is not continuous, but in bursts. That might allow the charging system to catch up.

[Prospect]

What I did was trace every wire and did a resistance reading and replaced any that showed to be an issue. I cleaned contacts and ground wires and coated with contact grease.

I also bypassed the ignition switch and headlight controls with relays, which was probably the biggest improvement. I also replaced turn/brake signal bulbs with LED, which saves a surprising amount of wattage. Hard to say, but I calculated about 20w, or 4w per bulb. The LEDs are rated at 4w and the 1157sI pulled are 9 normal and 27 when blinking.
 

A voltmeter shows me at 12.65v at the end of rides, so I am generating enough power to hold the battery fully charged.
 
The load from the jacket is only 55w, and I don't have the gloves, although those are only 15w. I could probably run them.

I think one of the reasons is that the draw is not continuous, but in bursts. That might allow the charging system to catch up.

That's more than most people are winking to do. Great idea with the resistance testing. How long does that contact grease last? 

You're probably right about the cycling.

I did a couple of rides with my vest and the battery is 12.5v after a ride which is slightly less than full. That is running without the headlight. Overall I'm happy with it. Tomorrow I'm going to do a one hour but highway this time.

[ncstatecamp]

Not to steal the thread but does anybody have hard figures on the electric rating that a 750k produces and could handle? I only plan on running on/off headlight, led brake/running light and license light. I feel with it stripped down so much I'll have a bit of leeway for aux, I just want to know how much....

[mono]

I also bypassed the ignition switch and headlight controls with relays, which was probably the biggest improvement.

I'll state that I'm pretty ignorant about electronics, but having a 550 with mild charging issues, this piqued my interest.  can you go into further detail on this?

[Rgconner]

Sure!

In my case I was losing 2 to 3 volts across the keyswitch, even after cleaning it. That is a huge drain, and bypassing it took a lot of load off the charging system.

Check this out by our very own Hondaman:

Ignition:
http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=49

headlights:

http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=12&products_id=46&osCsid=60217c1489ccb15b839a17a161054171

He is using widely available parts to do this. One could make their own...  However, the kit is worth getting the connectors and the schematic, not to mention being able to call and ask questions.

The man probably has forgotten more about Honda's then I will ever hope to know.

[MCRider]

I'm a believer in relays. I put one in the headlight of my HawkGT with the original bulb and the improvement was at least the 30% promised.

So you get better performance of the component: hlight, horn, or igniton switch. Plus you'll get better (read Longer life) performance of the switches that run each.

I've got a HM relay for the lights of my current project. And an EasternBeaver relay for the horns. I'll relate the EB site here, as it has lots of explanative and FAQ type stuff.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/wiring_kits.html
Seems EB moved to japan and isn't offering the horn relays anymore. And the FAQ is gone or disabled.

But buy the relays from Mark.     Mark's (HM) Hlight relay kit seems to reside totally in the Hlite shell, and is not a harness that drapes everywhere back to the battery.

[Rgconner]

Oh, one other thing: he does provide Vampire Taps to avoid having to splice the wires.


I have had no luck with those damned things, I just splice it. They always seem to fail at the worst possible time...

[bollingball]

Oh, one other thing: he does provide Vampire Taps to avoid having to splice the wires.


I have had no luck with those damned things, I just splice it. They always seem to fail at the worst possible time...

http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=2d5e5b042f2d93fd9957a3f83558a6b0