Author Topic: Time to freshen up the F Model bracket bike (Read 120272 times)

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #125 on:** October 21, 2013, 12:22:00 PM »

Brakes.......I know nuttin about brakes!

Bill

bwaller · « **Reply #126 on:** October 21, 2013, 02:30:05 PM »

Are the spacers welded to the caliper bracket? I ask because I made that mistake the first time I set mine up. It distorted the bracket enough to alter alignment.

dragracer · « **Reply #127 on:** October 21, 2013, 05:38:40 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on October 21, 2013, 02:30:05 PM

Are the spacers welded to the caliper bracket? I ask because I made that mistake the first time I set mine up. It distorted the bracket enough to alter alignment.

Spacers were specially machined to fit the caliper to my forks to align with the rotor and are not welded on. The machinist did not complete the brakes as far as installing lines and adding fluid for a fully functional system with pads extended so he couldn't have known of the alignment issue in that respect. I only had to him to make spacers for the wheel and rotor and fabricate the hanger bracket. My guess is the caliper may not be in full alignment radially with the face of the rotor as i've moved the caliper in and out to lessen the friction between them but still have some drag. I'm going to take another look in a few minutes to see if i can get it right by offset shimming the hanger itself.

scottly · « **Reply #128 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:05:46 PM »

Frank, it looks like the bracket is very close to the fork leg in the lower left corner. The only contact points should be at the mounting lugs. Is the caliper also mounted flat to the bracket, with the only contact point at it's mounting lugs? Is this an opposed twin piston caliper?

bwaller · « **Reply #129 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:34:23 PM »

Looks like a vacuum bleeder in the picture so if it's bled up, and IF there is an alignment issue, when you pull the lever you should be able to see some flex in the caliper bracket as it squeezes the rotor.

dragracer · « **Reply #130 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:35:29 PM »

Quote from: scottly on October 21, 2013, 07:05:46 PM

Frank, it looks like the bracket is very close to the fork leg in the lower left corner. The only contact points should be at the mounting lugs. Is the caliper also mounted flat to the bracket, with the only contact point at it's mounting lugs? Is this an opposed twin piston caliper?

I looked at that last night thinking maybe the close proximity of the lower part of the bracket was causing it to cock somewhat and contributing to the alignment issue. A close look revealed the bracket was flat on the mounting lugs. Great observation though Scottly- when i saw it to begin with i though i had found the smoking gun but it was a dude-lol.

Single piston PMFR caliper.

dragracer · « **Reply #131 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:38:09 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on October 21, 2013, 07:34:23 PM

Looks like a vacuum bleeder in the picture so if it's bled up, and IF there is an alignment issue, when you pull the lever you should be able to see some flex in the caliper bracket as it squeezes the rotor.

Yes, its been bled. Will also check to see if i have a warped rotor when i go in the shop. The lever holds constant pressure with consistent travel so i doubt thats the issue but it only takes a little to cause problems.

scottly · « **Reply #132 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:40:49 PM »

Quote from: dragracer on October 21, 2013, 07:35:29 PM

Single piston PMFR caliper.

A single piston caliper HAS TO FLOAT; it appears your caliper is rigidly mounted? Hard to tell from the pic if it has sliding mounting pins...

dragracer · « **Reply #133 on:** October 21, 2013, 08:06:49 PM »

Quote from: scottly on October 21, 2013, 07:40:49 PM

Quote from: dragracer on October 21, 2013, 07:35:29 PM

Single piston PMFR caliper.
A single piston caliper HAS TO FLOAT; it appears your caliper is rigidly mounted? Hard to tell from the pic if it has sliding mounting pins...

No, it does not have sliding mounting pins but all of the aftermarket race calipers are mounted rigidly.

dragracer · « **Reply #134 on:** October 21, 2013, 08:14:16 PM »

Scottly, i stand corrected. I took a second look at the caliper and its a 2 piston Grimeca. Not sure what the heck i ws thinking earlier.

scottly · « **Reply #135 on:** October 21, 2013, 08:18:31 PM »

Only opposing twin piston calipers may be rigidly mounted; all single sided calipers must have the ability to float the "dead" pad, whether with a K type swing arm or sliding pins!!

scottly · « **Reply #136 on:** October 21, 2013, 08:24:09 PM »

I hit send before reading your last post.. The twin piston Grimeca on the back of my Seeley has virtually zero drag; I swear I could static balance the rear wheel with it installed! Are you sure it is functioning properly?

dragracer · « **Reply #137 on:** October 21, 2013, 10:12:02 PM »

Okay, this is NOT what i wanted to find out but it explains most of my dragging issues. I took a video of the wheel spinning with focus on the rotor and fork but i guess the file was too big to upload here. Plain and simple the rotor is either warped or the adapter the machinist made is out of tolerance. Either way, something has to be done to eliminate the runout or it'll forever have some drag.

scottly · « **Reply #138 on:** October 21, 2013, 10:28:45 PM »

Quote from: dragracer on October 21, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

Plain and simple the rotor is either warped or the adapter the machinist made is out of tolerance.

Are you now talking about a rotor to hub adapter? Any run-out in the hub will be greatly magnified the further out from the axle center-line.

dragracer · « **Reply #139 on:** October 21, 2013, 11:32:11 PM »

Quote from: scottly on October 21, 2013, 10:28:45 PM

Quote from: dragracer on October 21, 2013, 10:12:02 PM
Plain and simple the rotor is either warped or the adapter the machinist made is out of tolerance.
Are you now talking about a rotor to hub adapter? Any run-out in the hub will be greatly magnified the further out from the axle center-line.

Yes, there is a hub to rotor adapter. It was machine down to reduce the width so wheel would fit inside the front forks and so the rotor could fit in the proper place in relation to the caliper. If the hub was not symetrically cut, the rotor itself would appear to be warped when it really is not. I'll take the wheel off tomorrow and remove the rotor then spin the wheel to check the hub/adapter face for runout.

If it ain't one thing, its a freakin 'nother. Still moving ahead regardless. No matter what, i'll be pickin at the engine come wednesday night.

dragracer · « **Reply #140 on:** October 22, 2013, 10:32:00 PM »

Okay, I took the rotor off with the carrier and then set up a crude fixed pointer system to check the runout of the hub adapter. As i expected, the pointer revealed an issue with the face of the adapter. I did not get any contact along approximately 4" of the circumferance of the diameter. While i didn't use a dial indicator to get exact numbers, this is definitely the problem. Common sense says the further you move outward from the diameter of the adapter towards the extremities of the 10" rotor the worse the runout will become.

Time for a trip back to the machinist to get this corrected. This time the brake system is all installed and bled properly. He can test it himself to be sure we no longer have drag. Damn, i wish i had the proper equipment and know how so i could do it myself.

Another delay towards my goal but i'm moving forward to the engine tomorrow.

dragracer · « **Reply #141 on:** October 27, 2013, 07:56:28 PM »

Got the chassis back from the machinist yesterday. No real big problem but still have a slight issue with the brakes but i'm going to leave it alone for now. Hoping a few passes and down the 1320 might seat it all in.

Starting working on the engine this evening. I may have an issue with my #3 main bearing and crank journal. I started cleaning up the cases and other parts. Need to change the fluid in the parts washer at some point. Will check clearances tomorrow to see where i need to go from here.

I'm still pushing along.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #142 on:** October 27, 2013, 10:59:16 PM »

Damn Frank, you need to change the filter in that washer!

MUCH cheaper than replacing 10 gallons of cleaner. LOL. I keep kerosene in mine at a lower level than you do. The pressure was diminishing so I turned the filter upside down and viola, I was spraying kerosene all over the place

The top half of the original filter was basically new. Mine looks identical to yours'. Harbor Freight.

Keep plugging away. I'm sure Bill will still be piddlin with his in FL

and we can work on yours too! Shouldn't take more than 1 case of beer. What's the problem with #3 look like? I can bring one spare brown with me should you need. I had greens all the way across until 'the damage' occurred and smoked the middle journal. I then upped it to brown and ended up with black there after the crank work.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #143 on:** October 28, 2013, 05:16:11 AM »

Bill has lots to do! Still gotta pull engine in Purple Rain and install CycleX undercut gears. Piddling huh?

lol. I will be ready! Yeh rt! About to leave Jackson bound for Alpharetta! Bill

dragracer · « **Reply #144 on:** October 28, 2013, 10:22:29 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er on October 27, 2013, 10:59:16 PM

Damn Frank, you need to change the filter in that washer! MUCH cheaper than replacing 10 gallons of cleaner. LOL. I keep kerosene in mine at a lower level than you do. The pressure was diminishing so I turned the filter upside down and viola, I was spraying kerosene all over the place The top half of the original filter was basically new. Mine looks identical to yours'. Harbor Freight.

Keep plugging away. I'm sure Bill will still be piddlin with his in FL and we can work on yours too! Shouldn't take more than 1 case of beer. What's the problem with #3 look like? I can bring one spare brown with me should you need. I had greens all the way across until 'the damage' occurred and smoked the middle journal. I then upped it to brown and ended up with black there after the crank work.

Jerry,

I do need another filter but the truth is i've cleaned up quite a few motors on that batch of fluid. I use mineral spirts in my parts washer mainly due to availability.

Thanks for the offer on the bearing. It looks like i have yellow on all but the #5 journal which is brown. I'll plastigage all of them tonight to verify what i need for #3 and get it overnighted. I really need to start putting this thing back up no latter than friday night so i can get it in the frame and fire it up on sunday. If the weather holds out, i'll test it on wednesday of next week.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #145 on:** October 28, 2013, 11:53:10 AM »

What clearance are you trying to run? I'm at .035 - .050mm with greens on 4 and black in the middle using Plastigauge.

My parts washer is in my attached garage. How is the mineral spirits for fumes? Probably a better solvent than kerosene. My kerosene is not bad at all fume-wise. I think it kinda helps prevent any flash rusting after taking stuff out too. And if we leave the 'old' stuff in them we don't have to try to figure out how to dispose it

Sam, make Bill stay away from YOUR bike! Let him play with his

See you ATL guys next week. We gotta do garage day and get out at least one night before we leave. Gotta see the new haul and the Bat Cave v2.0. Maybe we can even get Jim and Vern/BluezBoy in the mix.

dragracer · « **Reply #146 on:** October 28, 2013, 03:58:42 PM »

Man o man, a mind is a terrible thing to waste. After posting this morning, i remembered i had ordered some bearing last year when i was trying to get the bike ready for the Man Cup race. I thought they were rod bearings. I looked up the part number and i'll be danged if it wasn't main bearings. I guess i really did intend to make that race cause it seems i had all the engine parts piled in one box labeled from CycleEx. There's a full gasket set, rings, Mikuni carb parts and some other odds and ends inside. This is great news. I'll be going at the motor when i get home in a few minutes. Now if i can just stay focused......

Still pressing ahead.

dragracer · « **Reply #147 on:** October 31, 2013, 11:31:38 PM »

Okay, i got the new parts laid out and i'm going in knee deep in a second or two. Thanks to APE for the tensioner, CycleEx for the gasket set and seals. Hastings/MTC for the new 72mm rings and Honda for new main bearings and the clutch steels and fibers.

dragracer · « **Reply #148 on:** October 31, 2013, 11:34:13 PM »

New main bearings in the cases ready for the crank to be dropped in after i spread on some engine lube.

dragracer · « **Reply #149 on:** October 31, 2013, 11:41:49 PM »

Crank in with new cam chain, counter shaft in place, and freshly undercut tranny temporarily in the case- no i didn't forget to put the RK primaries on. I'm missing a half moon so i'm going to have to pull it back out. Not sure where that dang thing is but i sure hate to tear down a whole motor just to replace it but i will if it comes down that way. Also found a bad shift fork. Hopefully i have another.

I'm moving forward. This weekend will tell the tail if the bike will be ready by departure time on next thursday evening.

News:

Author Topic: Time to freshen up the F Model bracket bike (Read 120272 times)