Author Topic: '76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd  (Read 1100 times)

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Offline percolate

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'76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« on: October 23, 2012, 10:14:01 PM »
Hello all,

So here's my problem. When my bike is well warmed up and I come to a stop I cannot shift up from first into neutral or 2nd gear and I have no good idea as to what's going on. At first I didn't really care but as I actually ride more I've decided that this blows.  :D

My bike: recent top end rebuild, fresh oil (Rotella T 15w-30), and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't matter here. I had the clutch apart about 600 miles ago and it looked OK. All the clutch plates were pretty much the same thickness. Lacking a caliper at the time, I stacked up the friction plates and measured with a nice precise Starret combination square. Doing some simple addition based math, it appeared that I had about half of my clutch life left. Since the bike had been sitting for about 15 years before this summer there was some glazing on the plates so i scuffed them up and put things back together. (I measured after cleaning and scuffing up the friction plates.)

Overall the bike is running great. It starts easily, runs well, pulls strong, and is super fun. When I start it I let it warm up for a goodly few minutes, hop on and hit the road. It shifts very smoothly up and down the gears and I can easily hit neutral coasting to a stop or once at a stop can effortlessly pop it up into neutral from 1st.

The problem starts 10-15 minutes into a ride, sooner if I get up into the revs early in the ride. Down shifting becomes progressively harder the lower the gear. Sometimes I have to kinda stomp on the shifter to get it into 1st. Neutral is all but gone on the downshift (the only real evidence that I even have a neutral is the quick flash of the neutral light when going from 2nd to 1st). When I come to a stop I cannot pop out of first into neutral. Occasionally I can get it to go into second but with MUCH more effort than seems necessary. When this happens I can only jump between first and second and never really land it in neutral. [Angry smily face here.] One day last week it seemed that I could feather the clutch near the fully engaged position and I could feel my way into neutral. I think that was a fluke and I was riding the bike rather tamely.

This is only a problem when the bike is running. Shut it off and it clicks into neutral no problem (that's good cause up until this evening I was kickstart only and I'm still a pretty new rider and stall it occasionally trying to pull away from a stoplight). Also this is only a problem while at a stop. When I start going again it shifts up just fine but not as smoothly as early in the ride and I still can't find neutral.

I saw a Hondaman post saying that the 750 clutch can be made to function more smoothly by drilling some more oil passage holes into the clutch basket. Can this help the 550 too? Does this sound like an oil pressure thing? I replaced the o-rings on my oil pump and have inspected and cleaned the pick-up screen under the oil pan. Also new oil filter about 300 miles ago.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Etc and thank you.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:25:19 PM by percolate »
The solution is painfully obvious once you know exactly what the problem is.

1976 CB550F - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118564.0

Offline nancy

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Re: Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 10:28:01 PM »
Trouble shifting into neutral etc at idle seems to common. Likely caused by bad steel plates - warped and/or covered in varnish-like crud.
My 750 had these symptoms and they actually worsened after I rebuilt the engine this year. My clutch was rebuilt 2 years back with new springs and friction disks (I didn't repalce the steel disks). I pulled my clutch out again and carefully measured each steel on a flat mirror/sheet of glass - sliding a feeler gauge under - 0.3mm from memory but check that...it's in the manual.
If it goes under in a part and not another = warped disk. Also I took to the good steels with a sandblaster and got rid of surface varnish. I replaced 2 warped steels with used but good parts, reassembled and now problem while still there is only 25% as bad as it was. I likely need new steels and I know I had one other slightly warped one - but left it in there. Last - i soaked the pack of friction disks in engine oil for 24+ hours before reassembly.
Regards
Mark

Offline dave500

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Re: '76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 11:40:00 PM »
is the clutch disengaging fully,it might just need an adjustment?does it clunk into first heavily from neutral?

Offline matt mattison

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Re: '76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 04:01:33 AM »
Sometimes the oil makes shifting problems occur. I had similar issues a while ago using the honda recommended weight oil. I switched to 20-50 and that seemed to help a lot.
1975 CB550F
2011 MV Agusta Brutale 1090RR

Offline Duanob

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Re: '76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 12:36:06 PM »
Maybe 15W-30 is a bit thin? I think recommended is 10W-40. I've used 20W-50 in the summer and works fine. Maybe other issues?
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

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Offline percolate

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Re: '76 cb550f - Can't shift into neutral or 2nd
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 10:50:42 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions folkses!

Regarding oil weight, I mistyped. I am indeed running 15w-40 but perhaps a step up to 20-50 would be wise. And yes the clutch is in proper adjustment and is fully disengaging.

Regarding clutch innards, I also cleaned and lightly scuffed the steel plates when I had the clutch apart several months back. But I didn't check for flatness. Sounds like I should drain the oil and pull the clutch. I have a parts bike and hopefully between the two I can scrounge up enough flat steel plates to make it happy again. And then I can put in some fresh 20-50 too. :)

This will be good impetus to finally get my own set of feeler gauges. Though I don't want to tear the clutch apart right now I do like a good excuse to get a new tool. Especially if it involves precision. If it doesn't ice or snow soon I'll keep you posted on the results.

Cheers.

The solution is painfully obvious once you know exactly what the problem is.

1976 CB550F - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118564.0