Author Topic: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....  (Read 5665 times)

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Offline Skiparachi

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2012, 06:01:32 PM »
http://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/bsa-rocket-3.html

AHEAD OF THE CURVE?
The story of the BSA's Rocket 3 & her sister-bike, the Triumph Trident, is one of the most interesting, and at the same time most exasperating, story in all the annals of Classic British Motorcycles. Interesting because the Rocket 3 & Trident might actually have been one of the few instances in which BSA might have actually been ahead of the curve with its planning. Exasperating because it took so many years to get from concept to prototype, then prototype to production, that the window of opportunity had closed. Now instead of an incomparably fast, radically new machine, by the time it launched in late 1968 (as a 1969 model), it had already been eclipsed by the world-beating Honda 750 Four.

HERE'S WHERE IT GOES SOUTH
Imagine, if you will, a BSA Rocket 3 750 Triple in 1966. What sort of impact would it have made in a marketplace filled with British 650 twins & a few 350s & a 450 twin out of Japan? Talk about being ahead of the curve! BSA would have had a bonafide hit on their hands & could have firmly established themselves as the preimminent performance brand. As it was, the Trident was the fastest production motorcycle in the world when it came out in 1968, even faster than the first Honda 750/4's. Imagine that kind of performance 3 years ahead of the big Honda.

INTERNAL SQUABBLING
Well...it didn't happen. Endless dithering on parent-company BSA's part caused the project to run on indefinitely until the news of the impending release of the Honda 750/4 forced them into hasty action. You would think that after several years of tinkering with the bike prior to this, that they would have had something ready for market. But alas, not even close. First off, BSA was feeling slighted by Triumph's popularity & success, and they wanted to do something for their dealers as well. So, the insisted that the new Triumph Trident triple also be made as a BSA, to be named the Rocket 3 (presumably to honor all those great pre-unit Rocket twins). But this wasn't going to be some badge-engineered clone of the Trident. No, that would have made too much sense. Instead, they took all the basic internals, put them into an entirely new set of engine cases whose only purpose was to provide a 12-degree slant to the cylinders, to make it look different than the Triumph, which had vertical cylinders. But that wasn't all. They dropped it into an entirely new frame, completely different than than the Trident unit. This ridiculous maneuvering slowed introduction even more & drove up costs.

After reading all of this I still see nothing about a superbike being made by them.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 06:04:55 PM by Skiparachi »

Offline dhall57

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2012, 06:07:10 PM »
I've always liked the look and the design lines of the CB750(69-76) and I still do over 40 years after I saw the first one on a dealerships showroom floor in Greensboro, NC. I just don't get tired of looking at them. It looks good from every angle.I guess that's why I post so many pics of my KO and K6 on this forum. They weren't perfect, (nothing is) but the bike did everything well. IMO the CB 750 did more for motorcycling than any other motorcycle ever.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 06:14:49 PM by dhall57 »
1970 CB750KO
1971 CB500KO-project bike
1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
1976 CB750K6
1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Offline Skiparachi

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2012, 06:14:38 PM »
The CB750 is the champion of all motorcycles!

Offline cb650PK

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2012, 06:37:57 PM »
First Superbike?
     The Triumph/BSA Triples were released in 1968

Fastest 1/4 mile bikes of 1970 (all in the 12s):
     Norton Commando
     Triumph Trident
     Kawasaki MachIII

AMA #1 Plate holders:
     1969 HD Mert Lawill
     1970 Triumph Gene Romero
     1971  BSA Dick Mann
     1972 HD MArk Brelsford
     1973-1975 Yamaha Kenny Roberts

Production Runs of Landmark Motorcycles:
     Triumph Bonneville 1959 - 1983
     HD Sportster 1957 - present
     CB750K 1969 - 1978

The CB750 wasn't light years ahead of its contemporaries.  It wasn't the fastest or quickest.  It did not handle like the British twins and triples or the Ducati twins.  It never won any major race championships.  As late as the mid 90s, the CB750K was not viewed as a classic or vintage other than the sandcasts (only becuase of their rarity).  Cycle World (or more correctly David Edwards and Mitch Boem) helped to bring about the CB750 revival when they ran the articles West by CB750 (1993) and A Bike to Remember (1994).  They also helped to retell the story of the 1970 Daytona win by Dick Mann.  Vintage things became cool and the sheer number of CB750s still in one piece made it a neo classic.  Should it be on the list of top ten bikes of all time?  Sure.  Number 1?  Nope.  It belongs behind the Cub, Sportster, Bonneville and tied with the Z1.  Just my opinion.

Scott
I like my cb750 and if I could only have one motorcycle I would probably pick it, but, what Rookster said is pretty much right on.
S CB750 na vecne casy a nikdy jinak.

Offline Rookster

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2012, 06:55:27 PM »
Thanks, I like my CB750 too.

Skiparachi:

Cycle magazine called the Trident, Rocket 3, and a handful of other bikes "Superbikes" in their 1970 comparison test:



They pretty much created the term and it applied to all those bikes listed on the cover.

As far as the source of the modern inline 4 Superbikes; that honor goes to the Z1.  Todays inline 4 is a dohc not a sohc.  In fact ever since the Z1, all the performance inline 4s from Japan have been dohc.  This doesn't mean the CB750 isn't great.  Just understand that it wasn't like everything else was a leaking slob compared to the CB750.  In fact the CB750 didn't do one thing better than any other bike but it did enough things really well to be a great package.  Plus it was cheap (in the U.S. at least)!

Scott


Offline 754

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2012, 07:30:01 PM »
 Skip, you might want to read a bit of MC history.
 Look for a pic of cyclone twin, say 1914 ish..look at the top end.
 Now search FN 4 cylinder,. And they weren't the first..

 I know a bit about early motorcycles..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Skiparachi

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2012, 07:21:41 AM »
Skip, you might want to read a bit of MC history.
 Look for a pic of cyclone twin, say 1914 ish..look at the top end.
 Now search FN 4 cylinder,. And they weren't the first..

 I know a bit about early motorcycles..

I see 754 and I took a look at what you've presented. Thanks for the history lesson.... Who know maybe I can have as much knowledge about the automotive world as Jay Leno LOL

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2012, 03:13:22 PM »
First Superbike?
     The Triumph/BSA Triples were released in 1968

Fastest 1/4 mile bikes of 1970 (all in the 12s):
     Norton Commando
     Triumph Trident
     Kawasaki MachIII

AMA #1 Plate holders:
     1969 HD Mert Lawill
     1970 Triumph Gene Romero
     1971  BSA Dick Mann
     1972 HD MArk Brelsford
     1973-1975 Yamaha Kenny Roberts

Production Runs of Landmark Motorcycles:
     Triumph Bonneville 1959 - 1983
     HD Sportster 1957 - present
     CB750K 1969 - 1978

The CB750 wasn't light years ahead of its contemporaries.  It wasn't the fastest or quickest.  It did not handle like the British twins and triples or the Ducati twins.  It never won any major race championships.  As late as the mid 90s, the CB750K was not viewed as a classic or vintage other than the sandcasts (only becuase of their rarity).  Cycle World (or more correctly David Edwards and Mitch Boem) helped to bring about the CB750 revival when they ran the articles West by CB750 (1993) and A Bike to Remember (1994).  They also helped to retell the story of the 1970 Daytona win by Dick Mann.  Vintage things became cool and the sheer number of CB750s still in one piece made it a neo classic.  Should it be on the list of top ten bikes of all time?  Sure.  Number 1?  Nope.  It belongs behind the Cub, Sportster, Bonneville and tied with the Z1.  Just my opinion.

Scott

Scott, you just compared the most reliable large bike of its time to a bunch of hand grenades. The Honda was, and still is , a far better overall bike than the ones mentioned, it also handled better than the Z1, so i'm not so sure its that clear cut... ;)   Anyone of you guys ever ridden a Z1 hard...Scary stuff, plus the Z1 came after the 750, so the 750 was still the first and set a precedent no other motorcycle ever will, it killed the British M/cycle industry single handedly....
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2012, 03:20:01 PM »
Opinion:

Gutless, heavy, reliable, poor handling and old school; but very cool to own and ride. I'd take an H2 first though.

rt

 ;D ;D   You just called the Honda "poor handling" then you chose one of the worst handling motorcycles ever built over it, the H2.
I'm not to sure what condition the 750's you guys ride are in but the 750 is NOT a bad handling motorcycle at all and with a couple of small tweaks it can be made to handle very well, and if compared to most other 4's of that capacity or bigger, they are not that heavy.  Z1's were horrible handling bikes {and heavier as well as bigger overall}, H2's were plain dangerous, and yes, i have ridden all 3 quite a bit.... I like the "H"bikes as well, sheer madness... 8)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2012, 06:47:34 PM »
My opinion plain and simple: One of the best bikes ever built.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline lucky

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2012, 07:22:29 PM »
This is my favorite video and is a well made video and clear speaker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugwRgYRWfdg

When this bike was introduced everyone was very excited because Honda already had a reputation for reliability and no leaks and people were thinking and dreaming this bike would get to the USA. I remember that very well.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 07:31:10 PM by lucky »

Offline CoachDoc

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2012, 07:28:45 PM »
Exellent video. Thanks.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2012, 08:49:07 PM »
From Wikipedia

Under development for a year,[11] the CB750 offered two unprecedented features, a front disc brake and a transverse straight-4 engine with an overhead camshaft, neither of which was previously available on a mainstream, affordable production bike. These two features, along with the introductory price of US$1,495[12] (US$9,475 in current money), gave the CB750 a considerable advantage over its competition, particularly its British rivals.
Cycle magazine called the CB750 "the most sophisticated production bike ever" upon its introduction.[12] Cycle World called it a masterpiece, highlighting Honda's painstaking durability testing, the bike's 120 mph (190 km/h) top speed, the fade-free performance of the braking, the comfortable ride and excellent instrumentation.[11]
The CB750 was the first modern four-cylinder machine from a mainstream manufacturer,[13] and the term superbike was coined to describe it.[7][3]


All of the other four cylinder motorcycles mentioned in this thread are inline fours not transverse.

Offline dhall57

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2012, 02:24:20 AM »
“CB750s? I sold the hell out of them. At time the CB750 came out, the 750 Triumph Trident also was just out, and there was no comparison between the two. The Honda was much more refined. Without a doubt it was a better product. I sold probably 20 CB750s to every Triumph Triple I sold. The very few diehard riders who bought the Triumph 750s, every single one of them traded it back in on a Honda. I was a diehard Triumph fan myself and I hated to see that happen, but the British motorcycle industry had its head in the sand way too long.” –Larry Lilly, owner Larry Lilly Honda, Lancaster, California

From a article in cycle mag 1970.
1970 CB750KO
1971 CB500KO-project bike
1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
1976 CB750K6
1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Offline dave500

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2012, 04:33:20 AM »
thats a good old clip lucky ive seen that on tv before thanks for sharing though!those really were the days!i doubt anything like that will ever happen again?everyone has to admit the cb750 was the pinnicle at the time??im still with the smaller 500/550 brigade though,i ride with a varied bunch of guys with all sorts of old bikes,and i still out accellerate norton 850s that have been fully rebuilt till third gear,theres three of them in our group and id say they ride them less reckless than me though?ive only sat on 750s and it feels good,,i can only imagine how back in the day rolling one out and owing it would have been?similar to a camaro or poncho gto?

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2012, 06:42:42 AM »
All of the other four cylinder motorcycles mentioned in this thread are inline fours not transverse.

I'm curious about this statement.  A transverse engine is one whose crank is perpandicular to the long axis of the vehicle.  With the exception of the FN Four that 754 mentioned the four cylinders mentioned in this were inline, transverse four cylinders.

Did I miss something?
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline toytuff

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2012, 07:11:06 AM »
My opinion plain and simple: One of the best bikes ever built.

Needs two more cylinders!

tt

Offline toytuff

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 07:18:16 AM »

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2012, 11:29:04 AM »
All of the other four cylinder motorcycles mentioned in this thread are inline fours not transverse.

I'm curious about this statement.  A transverse engine is one whose crank is perpandicular to the long axis of the vehicle.  With the exception of the FN Four that 754 mentioned the four cylinders mentioned in this were inline, transverse four cylinders.

Did I miss something?

all  of the fours that 754 listed pre-dating  the cb750...the fn, indian,etc..were logitudinal not transverse.

Offline Dream750

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 11:52:16 AM »
What’s not to like about the Honda CB750?

(click image for a larger view)




Offline Skiparachi

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2012, 12:14:00 PM »
What’s not to like about the Honda CB750?

(click image for a larger view)



+1 ;D

Offline Garystratos201

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2012, 01:33:09 PM »
Never had a 750 trident out run my K1. Just saying...........Gary
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2012, 01:59:29 PM »
Never had a 750 trident out run my K1. Just saying...........Gary

Tridents had a problem with the middle cylinder over heating on earlier models....
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline 754

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2012, 02:12:28 PM »
 Most early fours were online, but transverse racers were built in the sixties, and earlier by Italian and Japanese makers..and likely others... Munch was a pricey 4 that came out around 68..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: What's Your Opinion On The Honda 750.....
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2012, 02:33:41 PM »
Most early fours were online, but transverse racers were built in the sixties, and earlier by Italian and Japanese makers..and likely others... Munch was a pricey 4 that came out around 68..

I think MV Agusta had a DOHC transverse four in 1965. Don't think it was a common thing until after Honda's success.  Just pointing out the difference. Doesn't really matter to me.  I was born in 1974 two years before my 750k and just got it this spring.  Long past when it or myself could be considered technological wonders. :)