Topic: 30 min/ 80mph then Red light appears 76 550 ??????????

[L.A. Nomad........]

 should I be concerned?

My car get's stolen, now I'm stuck riding my bike 44+miles round trip to and from work. So for the first few miles I'm in heavy street traffic(weaving through cars and trucks, stop and go) till I get to a freeway. At this point I jump onto the car pool lane and crusie 70-80mph for about 30mins. I love this thing called the alternate freeway in L.A. So now it drop's me off at Union Station in L.A. and I weaving through afternoon street traffic till I get home.  At this point my red oil light comes on and off at stop lights. Sometimes it stays on only being 3-5 minutes to my house. I've checked my oil level and everything looks good, so does this mean it's high oil pressure? Is this normal? Should I be concerned? does this mean my motor will be toast?  Should I get a oil cooler, summer is coming..

Nomad

[bryanj]

What bike? Sounds like duff oil pressure switch to me

[L.A. Nomad........]

It's 1976 CB 550K

[dusterdude]

if the engine isnt making strange noises from the bottem end,put a mechanical gauge on it somehow and see what the pressure is.if its low then you know its the motor,if not its the oil pressure switch on the bike.

[MetalHead550]

The oil light coming on means LOW oil pressure.  You say it doesnt come on initially but then comes on when you are back in stop and go traffic off of interstate?  I havnt messed with an oil pump on these bikes yet (hopefully it stays that way) but my guess would be that the pump is either flat out going bad or perhaps there is a seal thats bad in it and its unable to build the proper pressure.  Before you hit interstate the motor is still relatively cool I, would guess, meaning your oil is still thick and the pump can build pressure.  While your on interstate the oil thins as the high rpms in the cylinders heats it up.  At the same time the the high rpms allow the pump to bulid pressure.  As you get off interstate and are again in stop and go traffic,  the oil is thinned out due to heat and the engine is running at lower rpm so the pump can now no longer build quite enough pressure.  Anyway this is my guess as to what is happening.  What weight oil are you using?  If you are using oil that is too thin to begin with, the problem could be as simple as that.  Mabey try Castrol 20W 50?  Its a thicker oil and alot of people use it in the summer so the oil doesnt thin out too much durring hot weather.  At any rate, I would be very carefull about riding it in that condition.  If the pump goes or gets worse then your engine may lock up.  I know you dont have much of a choice though.  A more experienced grease monkey will probably chime in here in a bit to let you know more.  Later.

[MetalHead550]

Oh yeah, and while not having enough oil in the motor will obviously cause low oil pressure,  the fact that your oil level is good dosnt mean the pump is sending it up to the heads, ect.  Im thinkin a good way to test this would be to run the bike till it good and hot and the oil light starts coming on, then pull off a tappet cover or two(the round plates with the 18MM? bolt heads on em, eight in total on your valve cover) and see if oil is making its way up there.  If it does then you should be good and the switch may be bogus.  Later, Clint.

[kghost]

For goodness sake, put a pressure gauge on it.

While the oil light will flicker on some bikes, you have to figure out why.

As the above post mentioned thicker oil (25w-50) will help, if your running lighter oil (30W, 40W). If you already have the thicker oil you have got to find out why the light flickers.

The pressure switches do go bad. They will come on at higher and higher pressures. Course some times they come on at lower and lower pressures and not at all. Hence the Gauge.

Did it do this before or are you new to the bike / riding enviornment (hot day, Stop and Go traffic, Etc)? I the Carburation set up correct? A lean setup will make the engine run hot.

If the pressures are within normal ranges, and it only happens on hot days in Stop and Go traffic consider an oil cooler.

I run a cooler and a gauge on my big bore 750. But the cooler is needed only on hot days and when I'm really flogging it. My icon shows the location on a 750 for the gauge. Terry in Australia makes them, though not mine.

[TwoTired]

As designed, the oil light should come on with the ignition on and the engine not running before starting.
It should also come on when the oil pump pressure is low (5 PSI or below, I think).
Pressure this low probably means that your piston cylinder walls aren't getting lubrication oil.  This is bad, accelerated piston ring, cylinder wear, piston siezure are possible featues in the future.
It's probably best to find out if the oil warning system is being truthfull.  The easiest is to replace the warning sender with a known good device, or test it for correct operation off the bike.
I've seen these senders get plugged up with sludge and behave badly.  Sometimes carefull cleaning of the sender's pressure hole will fix it. But, you have to be carefull not to puncture the diaphram inside it.

If you discover the warning system is doing its job correctly, then the oil pump nearby can be rebuilt/replaced to get the pressure back up.  If you can't get pressure with a known good pump then an engine tear down will be needed.

All this assumes you have the correct weight and volume of oil in the bike, of course.

[L.A. Nomad........]

Ok, thanks for all the replies!

I'm running a 10-40W oil. In the morning comming to work I don't have this problem. It's only later during the day comming back home off the freeway I begin to see the light. The motor seems much hotter (I can feel it between my legs),  it's hotter cuz the last 15% of the freeway is all up hill! Then I hit stop ang go traffic..... So where do I get this pressure gauge from??  The temp has slowly been rising here 70s to 80. After I let sit for an hour and race around town, I never see the red light again. It only happens coming home... LoL... I was thinking about a oil cooler.....

I've had this bike for only 5-6 months. It's the first time it's happend to me. First time doing long distance riding on it too!

Nomad.........

[Bob Wessner]

Take a look at this segment of text out of a Honda 750 Shop Manual. Compare what it is describing to what you are seeing. Given where you are, maybe slightly heavier weight oil might be a good idea, but I wouldn't panic. Does your 550 have the same oil gallery plug and size as the 750? If it does, there is an SOHC/4 member who might be able to sell you one, don't know if will do for your bike though.

[MetalHead550]

Bob, what actually causes the light to come on intermittently though.  IS it because the oil becomes quite thin at those temps and the pump is not able to produce quite as much pressure as normal?  Good to know the oil pressure sensors are that sensitive!

Nomad, an oil cooler would still be a great idea if you could make it work.  550s are wet sump as opposed to their big brother 750 which is dry sump with a separate oil tank, so Im not sure if it would be an issue or not.  Sounds like you may not have a problem though from what Bob posted.  Id still try the 20w 50 at least.  Ill be switching over to it my next oil change for summer.

[kghost]

The light flickers because the pressure isn't constant it momentarily drops below the pressure switch level. Pressure above the level = light out. pressure below = light on.

Thats why its an idiot light. Well one of the reasons

That being said, the switches can have a wide variation. They weren't that hot when new. Age probably hasn't helped. Remember we are talking about a pressure switch that probably cost .50 cents to make. Not exactly Space Shuttle stuff. I have seen them actuate at about 4 psi.

As for the wet sump, It still has the filter in the front. Once again, Terry in Australia makes an adapter plate that goes between the engine and the filter. It will help in warm climates.

[TwoTired]

At the risk of starting another oil debate, I'll just offer this.

Today's modern automotive oil has been reformulated to remove zinc.  Zinc is a very useful lubricant for the transmission gears.  When the bike was designed, zinc was an expected additive for all automotive oils.  Times change.  But, Honda hasn't much incentive to revise owner's and shop manuals for '70s machines.

Further, oil breakdown begins to occur as soon as you put it in your machine, and heat, among other things will accellerate this breakdown.  One of the effects of breakdown is the reduction in viscosity.  And, the thinner oil flows faster and pressure bleed down is more rapid.  Frequent oil changes should help.

You might consider using an oil formulated for motorcycles, going to 20-50 wt, and/or using an oil blended with synthetics.  The synthetics are much more consistant at resisting viscosity changes of the base material do to high temperatures.  And, they continue to lubricate well when subjected to high temps.  The only down side to the synthetics I've found in my 550s is the tendancy to start weeping slightly at the seals.  I believe this is because they don't harden and plug up in the tiny fractures at the old seal sites like ordinary oil does.  And, it's high detergent action removes the deposits made by ordinary dino based oils, therfore leaks may occur in old engines with 20+ year old seals.  Of course, the synthetics cost more, too.  But, even so they are still way cheaper than an engine rebuild. I've been using the Honda brand oil in my Hondas.  I also have some anecdotal evidence that the Synthetics actually reduce the internal temps when operated in high temp conditions.  But, I don't really have scientific A-B data to point to, as proof.
Cheers,

[L.A. Nomad........]

Ok, so I'm coming off the freeway again. This time in Pasadena, 25min 70mph and 8-mins stop and go street traffic(heavy). Everytime I stop the red time comes on, I accelerate pass 15mph and it goes off. Now here's the part that trips me out! I noticed the shifter feeling more ruff at the stop lights(can bearly get inito Neutral). Temp is 80-85"F today

So I stop at a shop for 35mins, now I'm on my bike again red light doesn't come on everythong seems fine? I'm on the freeway for 8-9 mins, I get off short 2-3 stops. No red light.. To ne it sounds like I'm running to thin of an oil. And were can I an oil coolier again? My spelling sucks!

[kghost]

Terry in Australia, Look up his profile on this board. Send him a message. You will need an an adapter plate which he makes.

I robbed mine off another Honda but can't remember which.

Then you need the cooler parts and hoses to go with the adapter. Dennis Kirk has some that will work.

Somebody mentioned oil pumps in an earlier post. If you can access the pump without tearing the engine apart you could check it for wear. Unfortunately, the pump may be perfectly fine. As the engine wears the tolerances in the engine increase requiring greater pump output to maintain pressure.

I think you are on the right track with thicker oil and a cooler.

[Bob Wessner]

As far as I know, the light comes on 'whenever' the pressure drops below 7lbs. The shifting difficulty you mentioned could be because of the hotter, thin oil, could also have to do with hot, expanded clutch plates due to the riding conditions as well, or both.

This thread reminded me of one back on the old Greenspun formum, someone was trying to devise an oil temp. gauge or sensor set-up.. wonder if he ever succeeded.

[kghost]

Yeah Bob thats what I said above.

Be aware that these old sending units can develope a wide range. When new they operate at 7-8 psi but now your guess is as good as mine.

I have one that comes on at 10 psi. I had one that came on at 4 psi. Needless to say, I chucked that one in the trash.

Remember like most air cooled engines these use oil and fuel for cooling too.

If you have access to a temp probe you could check your oil temp when the light starts to flicker. I have a multi meter that has this function. It has a J type thermocouple lead that will thread right down the filler hole. Anything over about 220 F (100C)  is probably too much.

[scondon]

Hey Nomad,

     I had the same problem on my 750 a few years back. The engine had an oil pressure gauge so I could tell I was not losing pressure when the light came on. It turned out I had the carbs set too lean which was evident by the loud "ticking" after the engine was shut off, the blue/gold color of the chrome header pipes, and the white color of the spark plugs.The engine was getting very hot, very quickly. After getting the fuel mixture right the light stopped coming on at stop lights. As far as ambient temps are concerned, 30 minute rides at 80-90 degrees are not a strain on a properly tuned bike,IMHO. Two hour freeway rides at 100+ degrees would warrant a cooler, and as posted previously, Terry from Australia is the guy to talk to. Might even have an oil pressure gauge to fit your engine :)  Hope this helps

Sean

[TwoTired]

I admire the 750 guys for trying to help us lowly 550 guys, I really do.  But, I can't accept that an oil cooler is needed on a cb550 four.  Really guys, I've been running this bike in California since 1976 in commute traffic and none of mine have ever needed an oil cooler.

1. We don't know why your oil light is coming on.  But, it could be a faulty sensor or low oil pressure.
2. We don't know how old or what type oil you have in the bike.
3. We don't know how hot your bike is getting. And, if so, has the oil been damaged to the point where it will no longer maintain it's viscosity.

If you are running cheap oil, well, you're getting what you've payed for, I guess.  And, I'll just wish you luck.
If you have good oil and you ARE overheating. (The stiff shifting is a sign, by the way, of either oil breakdown or overheating, or...worse things list here), then you have to examine possible causes:
1. Is the spark timing correct?
2. Is the oil of the correct type and quality?  (see my previous post)
3. Is the fuel mixture correct?  (Do you have pod filters?)

If your bike IS getting too hot, one visible teltale will be the spark plug condition.  Pull them all out and compare them to the pictures at:
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html
Tell us what picture they look like and tell us what the numbers are on your plugs.
Also, tell us what modifications you have made to the bike that make it different from stock.

Good luck!

[95E320Cab]

Was using automotive oil (semi synthetic 20W-50) in my '78 750K and had rough shifts into neutral.  Dealer talked me into buying Honda motorcycle oil in 10W-40.  Huge difference in shifting.  Feels much heavier than the 20W-50.  I know this is counterintuitive, but I think there is more to viscosity than thickness!

[bryanj]

Those switches are notorious for pissing about when they get old I also understand that when the primary chain wears it can "saw" through either of the main oil galleries BUT whilst i have stripped a lot and seen a lot of "gouges" i havent yet seen one worn through

[pmpski_1]

Nomad, any update on the problem and or solution?

I am experiencing this as well, but I am not going 80 mph on the freeway. It's happening to me after ~10 minutes of around-town-riding. If I stop at a stoplight the light will come on. If I rev to about 2k then it goes away. The longer I ride, the more it stays on, no matter if I rev or not.

I want to try the easy (and hopefully cheap) stuff first.

Questions:
1. Anyone have the part number for the switch that may be going bad?
2. How can I put an oil pressure guage on a CB550? I would like something permanent, even if I have to make it.
3. Same thing, oil temp. Where can I hook up a sensor?

I have only ridden this bike a total of about 30 miles, so this may not be a new problem. I was extremely naive when I bought the bike.

Bike facts:
1. 74 CB550 with ~13k miles.
2. I have seen some oil on the #4 spark plug, so I know that this could be worse than a screwy oil pressure switch.
3. New Spectrol Golden MC oil ('doh, forgot what grade, probably 10w40) and new oil filter.
4. Newly rebuilt carbs, still running a bit rich.
5. 1 and 2 floats are too high, gas flows out of the overflow every once in a while.
6. New air filter
7. Since the bike has been running I have noticed quite a few oil leaks. I fear the worst

[L.A. Nomad........]

I realized I did about a 1000 miles on and off the freeway. The regular grade 10-40 Motu oil I used turned black and thin. I switched to 20-50W and that solved the problem. The oil light has not come back on and the shifting is good now. I have a 76 550K with about 27,000 miles. It's all stock except my clubmans.

Nomad

[pmpski_1]

Nice to hear Nomad! That gives me hope. I'm having the same problem. I ordered a new switch today and will replace it and test it. If the light still comes on I'll try the 20-50W. Thanks for the update!