Topic: Met an old timer,gave some new advice

[BAchvytrk]

gas is not going to turn green over a winter. i never drain mine if only storing for the winter, never had a problem. been using startron. definetly a good idea to run them a time or two over the winter if possible. perhaps some of the rubber parts the oldtimer was talking about are the seals on the fuel inlet tees on the carbs, i've replaced numerous ones on bikes that have been stored dry. I've been lucky with a few that were leaking and eventually the rubber swelled back up and make a good seal, but most that leaked after being stored dry i've had to replace. also, the rubber tipped needles can get hard and not seal well if let dry for extended periods of time.

[The Laughing Man]

Running the Engine once a week or so should keep everything flowing without the hassle of winterizing the bike. It's all about keeping the juices flowing.

[Gordon]

Running the Engine once a week or so should keep everything flowing without the hassle of winterizing the bike. It's all about keeping the juices flowing.

I disagree.  Unless you're going to ride it and get the engine and exhaust up to full operating temperature, you're doing more harm than good by introducing more moisture.

[City Boy]

Hi.I am with Gordon on this one.The absolute worst thing to do is continually start engine and not get it up to proper oil temp of at least 212F.         Rock On

[bwaller]

Hi.I am with Gordon on this one.The absolute worst thing to do is continually start engine and not get it up to proper oil temp of at least 212F.          Rock On

Among other things this is the best way to rot out your exhaust system.

[MRieck]

Hi.I am with Gordon on this one.The absolute worst thing to do is continually start engine and not get it up to proper oil temp of at least 212F.          Rock On

Among other things this is the best way to rot out your exhaust system.

Not if it is Ti, stainless or ceramic coated on the inside. carbs are vented to the atmosphere...any gas in the bowls will evaporate in a relatively short amount of time. Plus the ethanol leaves "algae" after it is gone. I use Startron in all my engines. A good product.

[Johnie]

For cold garage storage during the WI winters I have been using Stabil and draining the float bowls for many years. I am lucky enough to have non-ethanol regular here so I use that year round. This will be my first year with a heated shop, but I still plan to drain the bowls. I have no opinion as to which is best, just do what you want. No big deal. I generally wipe out the bowls and dab any remaining fuel off the jets.

[WarwickE36]

I disagree.  Unless you're going to ride it and get the engine and exhaust up to full operating temperature, you're doing more harm than good by introducing more moisture.

+1....

Dont run it unless your going to get it up to operation temp for at least a few minutes... you should really ride it. 

[Deltarider]

Ok, I've done both and here's my experience. You can leave the gas in the float bowls for 6 months no problem. Nothing will gum up or turn into varnish (not here in Europe), but, come spring, don't expect to start the engine easily or at all.
The winters I left the bike with bowls drained, I was shocked to see to what degree the O-rings of the float bowls had shrunk. They were so thin, I could hardly recognize them. After being in contact with gasoline again they regained their original size.
So here's my advice: unless you use Stabil or similar stuff that I do not have experience with, leave the gas in the bowls. Before first start in spring, empty them, collect the gaz and pour it in the tank. Nothing lost, no pollution, no extra costs. That's it. 

[BeSeeingYou]

My 76 750F1 sat dry for 25 years.....been running 4 years now......still has all the original gaskets and hoses...nothing is cracked, nothing leaks except a slight oil leak at the tach cable.

I just can't see leaving gas in the bowls over several months.  The gas will evaporate and leave residue that may eventually cause problems when repeated over and over.  Shorter lengths of time are probably not an issue.  It all depends on how long it will sit.

[lucky]

It's not slipping. I have a hard time putting it in neuttral after being in first. Not hard clunking or anything... Just have difficulty putting back in neutral. I've had it where it engages right away and when its damn near at the end.

That was normal from the day they were made.
I know because I was a Honda mechanic during those years.

[grasscutter]

Hi.I am with Gordon on this one.The absolute worst thing to do is continually start engine and not get it up to proper oil temp of at least 212F.         Rock On

+100
___________________________________________________________

Wow.  Lots of interesting 'info' in this thread.
Let's see if I got it all:  Yes, yes, no, yes, no, no, yes?
Hmm.

Seems folks have forgotten to take a little bit of time and winter prep correctly.
No one using fogging oil anymore?
No teaspoon of oil down the cylinders?
Guess the path of least resistance is to fill the tank, add the latest mixture of fuel additive and walk away.

I've owned a lawn / landscaping company for about 15 years.
Dozens and dozens of mowers, trimmers, blowers, etc...that need stored for next season. Approx 4-5months storage. (some items only get used 2-3months out of each year)
+ 11 motorcycles, and 5 snowmobiles.

It doesn't take much time to do it correctly.
We have not yet had a piece of equipment that didn't start @ beginning of each season.
-Warm up engine and change oil / filter.
-Follow directions on fogging oil can.
-Drain all fuel.  Tank, petcock, carbs, bowls, everything.
-Coat inside of tank with fogging oil.
-Spoonful of oil in all spark plug holes. 
-Turn all engines over a revolution or two.

They will all start perfectly next time you need them...no matter how long.

**Short 'off-season'?  1, 2 months max?  Might not have to do anything.

[Roach Carver]

I drain the bowls on cylinders one and four on even numbered years. On odd numbered years I drain two and three. At the end of 2020 I plan to drain none of them and in 2030 I will drain them all. Simple enough and it works for me.

[Schnell]

I drain the bowls on cylinders one and four on even numbered years. On odd numbered years I drain two and three. At the end of 2020 I plan to drain none of them and in 2030 I will drain them all. Simple enough and it works for me.

After 12/21/2012 it won't matter anyway.

[grasscutter]

I drain the bowls on cylinders one and four on even numbered years. On odd numbered years I drain two and three. At the end of 2020 I plan to drain none of them and in 2030 I will drain them all. Simple enough and it works for me.

Love it!  This has got to go in FAQ's!
 If its on the 'intra-web' its got to be true. hahahahahaha.
Needed that.  Thanks, man.

[TwoTired]

It is true that gasoline has additives to help keep seal soft an sealing.  These additives don't hang around in stagnant gas.  They evaporate and out-gas from the main supply.  These additives are tailored to neither overwhelm or underwhelm the seals in the fuel system.  Too much chemical additive will dissolve the seals, too little hardens them.  The additives are added in a measure so as to not overwhelm if the gas in in constant flow, which equates to the maximum amount of seal softening exposure.
This means if the gas is stagnant the seal softening additives out gas in our vented system and becomes less effective as storage time continues.
In general, the aromatics or lighter molecules migrate to the atmosphere.  Given enough time, the bowls will leave only the remains or hardened varnish.  It's the same process as solvent based paint leaving behind suspended pigments.

Enter ethanol gas.  A lot of the old practices change when switching fuel.  According to the Star*tron brochure, the ethanol in the gas absorbs water from the air in our vented fuel systems.  The water bonds with the ethanol, becoming heavier than the gas and the mixture sinks to the bottom.  This is phase separation and the process is accelerated in cold temperatures.  The mixture of ethanol, water, and particles in the fuel can form a gelatinous sludge layer that can block filters (and other small orifices like pilot jets).

Let's also not forget that the seals that were suited to withstand gasoline exposure in the 70s and 80s, were not intended for exposure to ethanol.  Ethanol hardens some rubber seals and dissolves other rubber formulations.  Usually, as long as the fuel undergoes constant replenishment (frequent engine running/fuel consumption), the seals survive, but not always.

Where I presently live, my bikes are seldom left unoperated for more then 3 months, so I seldom drain the carbs on intact bikes.  Other bikes get the fuel drained.  And, I would drain the carbs of ethanol fuel in colder locales where I expected the bike to remain inoperative for 6 months.  If I could get E zero gas, then I'd just add stabil to the gas before parking it for 6 months.  Longer than that, and I'd drain the carbs before storage.

Cheers,

[754]

 What about oil?
 I know a guythat changes hls oil before it's half year sleep.
 Myself I would rather change it, very soon after first startup..

[Duanob]

It all depends on how long your winters are! And Bollingball has a good point about the green Stabil product. The Red stuff does nothing to fight the effects of Ethynol on gasoline! The marine Stabil says it does but the jury is still out. O-rings won't dry out and shrink and crack in only a few months.

Just cause he's an old timer doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about, he just knows you will believe his old timer wisdom!

[Rigid]

I dump old gas in my Tacoma also.  I have no doubt that practice will bite me in the butt someday.  I fill to the top with ethanol free gas, squirt a bit of Lucas fuel additive in, start and ride every few weeks, maybe as long as 2 months.  No problems.

[andrewk]

It's not slipping. I have a hard time putting it in neuttral after being in first. Not hard clunking or anything... Just have difficulty putting back in neutral. I've had it where it engages right away and when its damn near at the end.

That was normal from the day they were made.
I know because I was a Honda mechanic during those years.

This isn't normal at all.  Where do you come up with this garbage?

You might be a man of many hats, but pull a few of them away from your eyes.

[Jerry E.]

All I've ever used is Stabil, and top the tank out. A local bike shop sells marine Stabil, for people who store their bikes with ethanol in the tank. Because of the way it gets water in it. I don't use ethanol in my bike tho.

[BeSeeingYou]

What about oil?
 I know a guythat changes hls oil before it's half year sleep.
 Myself I would rather change it, very soon after first startup..

I think the idea is that the engine parts are not sitting in a bath of contaminated old used oil for a long length of time.  Maybe a bigger deal in a wet sump engine.  I try and change it in the fall before storage.