Author Topic: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550  (Read 10923 times)

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Offline FastCB550

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Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« on: November 02, 2012, 09:55:15 AM »
I went on a ride this last weekend and was hearing some knocking/tapping under load. When the noise became a very loud I had her towed home. I thought that the sound was coming from my rockers but upon removal and inspection of the rockers, head and cylinders everything looks perfect. Next I removed my oil pan to discover quite a bit of small metal flakes and a few large pieces. The larger pieces are very thin but I can't quite make out what they might be from. I'm afraid that the bottom end has to come apart to find the source of the knocking and fragments.

Has anyone seen anything similar before? Any and all comments will be appreciated.
1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
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Offline Tews19

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 10:46:31 AM »
What was the shape of the cam tensioner in? if it spun around a full 360 when tuning up most likely it needed to be replaced. If metal and plastic shaving I would suspect that
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Offline MoMo

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 11:10:53 AM »
I think Tews is right on with the cam tensioner-from what I can tell from your photos it looks like pieces of the tensioner...Larry

Offline DustyRags

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 11:16:58 AM »
I just replaced a cam chain tensioner, and I can't think of what part of that would look like this. Wasn't there a thread a while back where someone shredded a bearing and had a knock and then metal shavings like this show up?
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Offline mono

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 01:17:42 PM »
I just replaced a cam chain tensioner, and I can't think of what part of that would look like this. Wasn't there a thread a while back where someone shredded a bearing and had a knock and then metal shavings like this show up?

if it's part of a bearing, the shavings should stick to a magnet.

Offline camelman

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 04:36:46 PM »
I had a small piece of metal (half the size of a BB) get stuck in the oil hole of one of the big end bearings.  It must have slowly eaten the big end bearing on the related connecting rod, which resulted in a vibration/knock at 4000 rpm and higher.  This was on a 350F and happened in the middle of a road trip!  ARGH!!!

Any respectable motorcycle mechanic will be able to tell you if the sound is from a big end bearing going bad.  It is very obvious.  don't run the engine long like that since a liberated big end connection is pretty catastrophic.

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We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline FastCB550

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2012, 01:08:03 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback.

I finally got a chance to test the metal shavings in the oil pan and YES they are attracted to a magnet. I guess this means there possibly from a main bearing and Im gonna have to go in and split the case. Not exactly what I wanted to hear but Ill feel better once everything is refreshed and Im confidently back on the road. Stay tuned for more updates and check out the YouTube video I made showing the shavings and the magnet test.

http://youtu.be/yy-4hTKvaxU

1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
www.HondaBB.com

Offline FastCB550

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 09:29:48 AM »
Well it looks like I found the source of the tapping and knocking. Turns out to be a spun rod bearing in my number three position. Now I have to see if I can salvage the crank or if I'll have to find some replacement parts. You can see in the first photo where the two bearing halves have melted together. In the second picture you can see where part of the bearing is missing.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 09:31:27 AM by FastCB550 »
1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
www.HondaBB.com

Offline Toxic

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 09:39:08 AM »
WOW  that's a big chunk to go missing.

Now you have to find out Why.  What caused the failure. Oil pump, a blocked passage way.

You don't want to just fix it without knowing for sure what caused the failure.

Offline camelman

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 09:45:51 AM »
Aw man, tough luck. The source for my bearing failure was easy to spot since the metal chunk was inside the oil supply passage in the crank.
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline bryanj

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 09:49:52 AM »
That crank is NOT salvageable and neither will the rod be, you cheapest/easiest option is a different bottom end from a breaker, all the 550's are identical for what you want
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Offline iomtt9

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 09:57:21 AM »
Bryan is right its scrap, second hand bottom end is what you need. !!!
Col

Offline FastCB550

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 10:09:50 AM »
WOW  that's a big chunk to go missing.

Now you have to find out Why.  What caused the failure. Oil pump, a blocked passage way.

You don't want to just fix it without knowing for sure what caused the failure.

Im not sure Ill ever know since I just recently got the bike and brought it back to life after it had been sitting since the early 80's. Originally I thought it was a top end problem from the sound of the noise it was making. The top end looks great and has all been gone through and rebuilt. The bottom end also looks good in all the gears and the oil pump is way within spec. Only thing I can think of is the previous owner ran the bike with no oil. Who knows??
1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
www.HondaBB.com

Offline FastCB550

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 10:13:56 AM »
That crank is NOT salvageable and neither will the rod be, you cheapest/easiest option is a different bottom end from a breaker, all the 550's are identical for what you want
I was afraid you guys were gonna tell me that. I just scored a '77 crank with rods on eBay for $50 so hopefully I can use that going forward. I'm guessing I'll have to measure it to see if it will work with the main bearings I have or will buy.
1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
www.HondaBB.com

Offline scottly

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 06:16:42 PM »
Just out of morbid curiosity, what do the other rod journals and bearings look like? What about the main journals and bearings? Was this due to a general loss of oil pressure, or was it a blockage only affecting the one bearing?
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Offline FastCB550

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 08:30:31 PM »
Just out of morbid curiosity, what do the other rod journals and bearings look like? What about the main journals and bearings? Was this due to a general loss of oil pressure, or was it a blockage only affecting the one bearing?
Ive always wondered the same thing ever since I got the bike/motor. When I first got it there was signs of a grinded up clutch set which I replaced from the beginning. After that and many oil changes to remove old gunk from the motor I have been chasing this sound which has been getting progressively worse and left me stranded on the road twice.

The only sign or clue I can see is that all the other three rod bearings show signs of wear or debris right in the centers where there fed oil. Im thinking there must have been some contamination or unfiltered oil fed to the rods. The confusing part is all of the main bearings look great which get fed from the same oil supply but they all have the center grove where the rods don't.

On another note all of the oil passages look perfect as well as the passages in the crank. I was expecting to find something very obvious but so far nothing. I guess only the previous owner will ever know what did all this and which is probably why he parked it and moved on.

1978 - CB550
600cc Overbore, Velocity Stacks, 4 into 1 Carpy Exhaust, Seat & Electronics by Kott Motorcycles, PD46C Carbs with 42 idle jets and 115 mains.
www.HondaBB.com

Offline Dimitri13

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2012, 01:06:29 AM »
I just replaced a cam chain tensioner, and I can't think of what part of that would look like this. Wasn't there a thread a while back where someone shredded a bearing and had a knock and then metal shavings like this show up?

Yep, that was me.


Offline bryanj

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 10:26:23 AM »
That rod bearing damage is down to dirty oil, not changed often enough. What probably happened if the bike was stood for that long is that the shells froze to the pin and  spun in the rod (which is why the rod will be junk as the hole will be oversize.
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Offline Brady

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Re: Knocking and metal shavings in my oil pan - CB550
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 02:57:56 PM »
Just ran across this thread and am trying to diagnose a knocking sound as well.  If the Original Poster is still around can you let me know if the sound your bike made sounded anything like the one in the video below.


<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/58272341" width="900" height="506" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="Not a valid vimeo URL">cb550f first startup[/url] from Brady Fontenot on Vimeo.</p>