« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Cam Chain Replacement  (Read 1890 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Cam Chain Replacement
« on: November 13, 2012, 12:59:27 PM »
Okay so I bought a new cam chain and tension kit... I'm about ready to start putting my jugs and head back on, so all that's left is to install the new chain and tensioner. I looked around on the forum and found a couple threads about doing this, one person said to split the case and slide the new chain over the crank because a master link could break. Another thread said to just use a master link. So, what's the probability that the cam chain would break if using a master link? I'm not racing the bike or anything, it's going to be my primary transportation come spring but there'll probably be those nights on the highway when no one's around and I want to push closer to redline....
Logged

Offline madScientist

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 01:06:36 PM »
If it were me I'd split the cases. I dont trust master links. The cam chain comes as one complete chain and, in my opinion, would be more solid left alone versus having the break the chain to get the master link in.

Plus, you've come this far so why not crack it open and slide the chain on? While you're in there you can check the condition of your journals, primarys, and primary tensioner. Possible catch a problem before it nukes your engine.
Logged
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 01:22:14 PM »
Well the main thing preventing me from splitting the cases is time constraint. I'm rebuilding this for a class and I only have one semester to get the bike running and road worthy. I haven't even started working on anything else yet so that's why I'm hesitant to split the case. I don't have much, well any, experience with cam chains but what is it about master links that you don't trust? Isn't the procedure just pressing out a link, feeding the chain on, then putting the master link on?
Logged

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 01:29:30 PM »
On second thought, how necessary is it to replace the cam chain? The bike has I think 34,xxx miles on it...
Logged

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 01:34:31 PM »
It's probably more important to replace the tensioner. How is the old one? The rubber usually gets rock hard and makes the engine noisier I think. I had an egine with new tensioners and one with old ones. The new tensioners are definitely quieter. Cliff.
Logged

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 01:38:20 PM »
Master links are strong. You find similar units on motorcycle and bicycle drive trains and I've never broken a master link on either of those applications.
Logged
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 01:42:42 PM »
Magpie: I bought a new tensioner kit so I'm good to go with that! I'd need to buy a breaker/riveter set which is right around $70 if I were to put the new chain on, how difficult is it break and rivet the new a master link?
Logged

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 02:22:14 PM »
I don't know anything about breaking and reriveting a chain. The ones I have replaced I did in motors I had fully torn down. As madscientist said, I'm not sure I would trust a master link on a cam chain, which sounds a bit warped since we trust our lives to a drive chain with a master link! My apologies to madscientist! I replaced the cam chains just because I had the motor apart, I don't know if they actually wear out. The chain is in an oil bath all it's life, usually under proper tension. Perhaps someone can tell us how to measure a can chain for wear. The ones I've seen looked good but I'm too anal for my own good.  If you are comfortable with the master link, go for it.  Cliff.
Logged

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 02:47:51 PM »
The 305cc SuperHawk uses a clip type link. In fact the entire chain is the exact size of the CB750 chain. We used that link in several rebuilds where customer didn't want to pop for a bottom end. The SH was a high performance rascal.  Never spit a link I know of. I do think Honda has discontinued that link however.

Z1 Enterprises i think sells the clip type link. They must think its OK.

Still 34k is not a lot. I'd throw on a new tensioner, roller, and blade and go.
Logged
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline madScientist

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 05:08:12 PM »
For a class? If that's the case toss it back together sans new cam chain and pass the class. You can always do a split later when time is not a constraint and it'll cost you a gasket set.

As for whether cam chains wear out. I have seen a couple die. One was on a yamaha warrior 4wheeler with a heavy cam on it. It never slipped a tooth but was VERY noise and the tensioner was at max adjustment. A new chain and it was silent. The other one i saw was on a built KZ1000...after 30k miles it slipped a tooth and destroyed the top.
Logged
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 05:24:50 PM »
I've never heard of a SOHC cam chain go bad however the one on my DOHC 4 is fragile - lots of reports of a chain letting go and destroying the engine. And, there's 2 chains in there. I like madscientist's idea, throw it together now and do the chain at a later date when you do a number on the motor. Cliff.
Logged

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 09:16:03 AM »
Magpie, I just re-read your first post about breaking the new cam chain and how that'd make it weak. I looked at my new cam chain last night and it's not endless, there's a link included with it to link the ends together. Does this change your opinion of what I should do?
Logged

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 09:37:05 AM »
Quote from: RebelSkyRot on November 14, 2012, 09:16:03 AM
Magpie, I just re-read your first post about breaking the new cam chain and how that'd make it weak. I looked at my new cam chain last night and it's not endless, there's a link included with it to link the ends together. Does this change your opinion of what I should do?
Curious, is it a rivet link or a clip link?
Logged
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,466
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 09:58:34 AM »
Quote from: Magpie on November 13, 2012, 05:24:50 PM
I've never heard of a SOHC cam chain go bad however the one on my DOHC 4 is fragile - lots of reports of a chain letting go and destroying the engine. And, there's 2 chains in there. I like madscientist's idea, throw it together now and do the chain at a later date when you do a number on the motor. Cliff.

 It's not really weak on DOHC, just doesn't get adjusted properly in most cases (I've replaced dozens of them)
Most 'home mechanics don't adjust second (main) tensioner and only do the easily visible one next to number 3 exhaust
As long as you use a rivet link, I wouldn't worry about splitting chain and running it around sprocket, you only need to remove top cover and cam (and don't drop the old one when you connect new one to it )
Logged
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:38 AM »
Rebel, I'm just a backyard mechanic so I called my local Honda shop for a mechanic's opinion. He says, "if the motor is torn down, go with the endless one, if not use the one with the master link, it should be okay unless you're going to be racing the bike. Regular riding and it will be fine."  So, there you have it. One bit of advice, stuff a bit of a rag down the cam chain tunnels, before installing the link, you wouldn't want to drop the clip down there as crazypj points out. And make sure the open end of the clip is pointed in the right direction. I believe that's away from the direction of travel. Someone will confirm that I'm sure.
 Crazypj, thanks for the tip about the DOHC cam chain. I've read where the tensioner next to number 3 exhaust is easily stripped. Cliff.
Logged

Offline RebelSkyRot

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 02:05:23 PM »
Hey thanks magpie, I'm going to go with the rivet master link, alls I gotta do is find a riveter to borrow.. ;D
Logged

Offline City Boy

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: Cam Chain Replacement
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »
Hi gang.A properly rivetted chain master link should be a non issue.All CB450 and CB500T units required a rivet link.Think about it;a chain is just a series of properly rivetted links.     Rock On
Logged
'52 Kiekhaefer Mercury Rocket Hurricane KG4H
'70 750/RC 1000 Original Owner
'83 1100F
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »