Author Topic: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)  (Read 174029 times)

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Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #675 on: December 08, 2015, 12:24:15 PM »
Onto somewhere here Re: my regulator/rectifier. An email from ElectroSport:
Quote
I noticed the pin out of the rectifier connection was not as I expected it to be.  Looking in the connector, locking tab on top it appeared to me as:

A/C  empty  Ground
A/c    a/c       dc+

but it was expecting it to be:

dc+   empty  ground
a/c      a/c       a/c

This might be why you had no charging voltage at battery.  Can you confirm if your bikes harness had the d/c output in the top row or was it in the bottom?
Well, how about that?
Here's what my stock rectifier harness looks like:

This is how I purchased the ElectroSport reg/rec w/ locking tab on top:
dc+   empty   gnd
a/c      a/c       a/c

The ground and dc+ were switched!
This could have been the issue all along!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 02:01:59 PM by minimo »

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #676 on: December 08, 2015, 12:35:52 PM »
Confirmation from ElectroSport:
Quote
Yep, that was the problem then.  Your red wire, which is the large wire with the woven brownish sleeve over it, was previously attached to one of the a/c input wires from the ESR240.  And the esr240 d/c output was attached to a stator wire. 

This was a mistake that I'm confident was made by us and not by you.  It also explains why despite having power coming from the stator and some working diodes you had no increase in voltage at your battery.  I will send to you a new ESR240 later today, this was a mistake with the parts assembly and not a failure of the part from use over time.
Wonder if this also had anything to do with killing my battery??

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #677 on: December 08, 2015, 03:20:50 PM »
In whatever case, have to say that ElectroSport is pretty awesome to fess up to their mistake AND ship me out a correct replacement. They've been very responsive to my emails and I will gladly do business with them again (as well as with Shorai Battery company).

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #678 on: December 08, 2015, 04:13:38 PM »
That kind of candor is increasingly rare.
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Offline firebane

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #679 on: December 08, 2015, 05:56:22 PM »
Confirmation from ElectroSport:
Quote
Yep, that was the problem then.  Your red wire, which is the large wire with the woven brownish sleeve over it, was previously attached to one of the a/c input wires from the ESR240.  And the esr240 d/c output was attached to a stator wire. 

This was a mistake that I'm confident was made by us and not by you.  It also explains why despite having power coming from the stator and some working diodes you had no increase in voltage at your battery.  I will send to you a new ESR240 later today, this was a mistake with the parts assembly and not a failure of the part from use over time.
Wonder if this also had anything to do with killing my battery??

The problem with these types of batteries is that if you get them below a certain voltage they are usually dead weights. If you do your google foo'n you'll see there are a lot of people who have made then door stops because of this.

Its advised if anyone is thinking of going to this type of battery that you have ALL new electronics (reg/rec) and that your charging system is in 100% working order as to not kill the battery.

Since your bike was not charging properly you nuked the battery and got lucky with a replacement.

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #680 on: December 08, 2015, 08:18:06 PM »
Yes, it is recommended, especially with these smaller Li-Fe batteries, to check and meter them occasionally so they don't fall below the "red zone".

Per Shorai:
Quote
Having a voltmeter is beneficial for recovery. For reference, Nominal Voltage to crank: 13.2V.  Full Charge: 14.4V.  Do Not allow to fall below: 12.86V (Red Zone)

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #681 on: December 09, 2015, 09:22:33 PM »
Yo, strynboen!

Offline strynboen

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #682 on: December 10, 2015, 06:02:13 AM »
yes nice... ;)
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
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Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #683 on: December 19, 2015, 03:07:12 PM »
Just sold the ol' signal buzzer on eBay!
Fare thee well!

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #684 on: December 20, 2015, 07:06:39 PM »


Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #685 on: December 22, 2015, 06:41:49 PM »
Going by the chart, my 77 750 was : Rare model,               ( didn't know this at the time ) :-\
                                                        : Older restoration,      ( at least whoever straightened the fins and welded up the alt. cover and gearbox did it well ) :)
                                                        : No time to complete, ( Did buy a 16t 630 front sprocket from a local bike shop, he said it had been there since the 80s ) 8)
                                                        : Low mileage.             ( 62000 km on the gravel rashed clock when it stopped, put 76000km since, only it knows what happened in between) :-X
                                                        : Clean,                        ( It rains for three months straight usually ) :)






77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
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80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #686 on: December 24, 2015, 07:16:30 PM »
Fab'd up a quickie mount for the Koso gauge. It's flimsy. I'm sorta at odds with it 'cos it's in line with the stock key ignition yet I'd really like to sink the gauge into that void by between the top tree and the headlight by slanting it down more toward the back of the headlight.
What do you think?




Also fabricated a quick tail light mount - even did a little welding :) Fairly pleased with how this came out. Just hope the license plate clears the rear tire in an extreme bounce situation.



More updates real soon. Developments in getting the bike registered have taken place (more details about that later) and I will be scheduling a bike inspection very soon with the highway patrol.

Happy Holidays!

Offline goldarrow

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1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #687 on: December 24, 2015, 08:21:24 PM »
This one hella fast bike! 5800rpm with ignition off!
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Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #688 on: December 24, 2015, 08:23:32 PM »
Whoa, weird! I didn't even notice that. Wtf

Offline calj737

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #689 on: December 25, 2015, 05:28:49 AM »
Use 1/8" aluminum sheet. Hole in it for you gauge. Mount it between the handlebar clamps so you have 2 points of tension, and then the gauge will be more secure. The sheet you used is too thin. The more pitch towards the headlight, the more conflict in the wiring and the less visible the display becomes. Perhaps you can slide the headlight down a touch to create more space?

Also, what about relocating the key switch to the left side of the frame tubes like the earlier year models?
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Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #690 on: December 25, 2015, 07:46:59 AM »
Yeah, the gauge is a tad unsightly the way it is mounted above the stock key switch location. I've seen mods where the key switch is relocated to the left as you suggest but that usually involves an entirely new switch, right? This stock one is so bulky and long (to accommodate the old signal gauge housing). About the mounted 1/8" aluminum plate you suggest also, do you mean making a hole the diameter of the entire gauge? The gauge itself doesn't have a real flange to allow for it being dropped in like that and mounted. But I suppose I can extend small arms to attach from the underside of the plate to the screws on back of the speedo...

calj, what do you think about what goldarrow pointed out with speedo reading? Did my bad wiring it up? I have since wrapped the RPM wire several times around spark plug wire #1 and connected the line to the corresponding coil (and not to the points). I have yet to connect my new battery but I'm thinking the gauge will reset itself back down to its appropriate start point. I guess one way to find out...

Thanks for your tips!

Offline calj737

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #691 on: December 25, 2015, 08:40:15 AM »
It's very common for electronic speedos to register an rpm of the engine when killed, and remain pointing there. Upon cycling the power, the vague should reset itself with a full sweep and return to zero.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline strynboen

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #692 on: December 25, 2015, 10:22:46 AM »
you can cut 1 mm plate..and build a housing all  up and araund the clock and close inn both the key and instrument and viring..veld it and grind it perfekt..it vill stabilice..but still use sone heavyer metall for the bolting on area..to kill all flexing..and vibrasion
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Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #693 on: December 25, 2015, 10:43:10 AM »
I shall go thick. Thank yous!!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #694 on: December 31, 2015, 07:25:14 AM »
Yes, relocating the ig switch would most likely mean using a different switch. 
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Offline Pan1cReaper

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #695 on: January 01, 2016, 01:56:08 PM »
My tag wad probably that close when I first put it on, now it is bent up enough to be out of the way. It was half as thick as the one youve made and the tag had some rub marks after a few bumps. I would try to get it a little higher. Looks good though.

Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #696 on: January 07, 2016, 09:21:48 PM »

Happy New Year! Back from a test run around the block with some new replacement parts. This will mark my fourth year tooling on this bike. I feel like this is gonna be the year I get her all done. I hope.

However, it won't be without some wiring issues. Here's a quick rundown of problems and I will try to elaborate on each after:

- Running light not working in tail light - strange because the light has three leads and it seems to be a dual-fitment. Meanwhile, brake light illuminates fine
- Koso speedo lights up like Christmas and reads MPH and odometer in the digital readout below but the RPM needle doesn't move an inch while speeding
- Headlight wasn't coming on using OEM right-hand throttle switch assembly so I resorted to an aftermarket Kawasaki unit and that worked but the start button did not work across all start/throttle switches - it used to work before... Ground issue?

Out of some frustration I took a little time off the wiring to redo my tail light/license mount bracket. I wasn't feeling the previous one and I think this is more the look that I'm after:

If you noticed too, I also slapped on a new trumpet-style muffler. I had a little help from Fred, my local muffler mechanic who modified a reducer adapter that I had with a swift chop, grind and welded around the inside to ensure a seal. He was able to get the new muffler to slip over my old pipes in a jiffy. I think the new muffler looks and sounds great. I would liken it to how a fly would interpret the sound of a big wet fart at mid flight. It's glorious.

I don't want to stray too far from the problems above, but to recap on where I last left off before the new year, I was finally able to get replacement parts back into the mix:

- Regulator/rectifier. Kindly replaced - out of warranty - by ElectroSport

- New Shorai LiFe battery which is fully charged (~13.4V)

Now, circling back to at least one of the issues above, since I can at least get the bike to kickstart and run, let's begin with troubleshooting the RPM needle in the Koso gauge.

So I wrapped the Koso Dark Brown/RPM wire around a spark plug wire several times (plug #1) and I connected it to its corresponding coil (sharing the same connection as the Black/White wire). So what the heck? That's all I needed to do, right? I was getting a lot more movement, albeit shakiness with the needle while the RPM wire was connected to 1-4 on the points, but that seemed to be incorrect. Something else is amiss here (perhaps I should check back in my old notes and correspondence with good ol' calj)! My guess is gonna be with the Koso LIGHT Brown wire. I was supposed to connect this to 12V ignition and found a Honda Black line that had continuity with the black coming off the 12V ignition. Should be ok, right?
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.


Offline minimo

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build) - power for RUNNING LIGHTS
« Reply #697 on: January 07, 2016, 10:11:42 PM »
RE: RUNNING LIGHTS

The only way I could get the running lights to work with my weird wiring, particularly with my tail light was by routing 12V ignition BLACK in place of BROWN (or BROWN/WHITE). Similarly, instead of using BLUE/WHITE and ORANGE/WHITE wires for the front signal running lights, I ran a 12V ignition BLACK to those. This was the only work around my wits could come up with to power all of these suckers. This is OK right? The draw of voltage is nominal as all lights are LED... Moving on.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #698 on: January 08, 2016, 04:16:15 AM »
- Running light not working in tail light - strange because the light has three leads and it seems to be a dual-fitment. Meanwhile, brake light illuminates fine If there are 3 wires coming from the light, 1 will be GROUND. The other 2 (light and brake) may be required to be swapped around from how they're connected now, or, you may have a bad bulb. The light you see activated could be your actual tail light, but its wired to the brake circuit. To test, use jumper wires from light fixture directly to the battery. If touching the tail wire to the positive (while ground is to battery NEG) lights up, then swap to brake wire. Still light up? If so you've got a wiring issue. It may be necessary to use both tail and brake wires to get the brake light to activate in this test.

- Koso speedo lights up like Christmas and reads MPH and odometer in the digital readout below but the RPM needle doesn't move an inch while speeding See below

- Headlight wasn't coming on using OEM right-hand throttle switch assembly so I resorted to an aftermarket Kawasaki unit and that worked but the start button did not work across all start/throttle switches - it used to work before... Ground issue? Your Kawi unit may not have a straight thru Y/R circuit and may be looking for a Clutch Safety wire or other circuit before it completes the START circuit. You'll have to provide a model of the Kawi control and a color scheme to get proper help

So I wrapped the Koso Dark Brown/RPM wire around a spark plug wire several times (plug #1) and I connected it to its corresponding coil (sharing the same connection as the Black/White wire). So what the heck? around a spark plug wire several times (plug #1) and I connected it to This is the problem. Disconnect it from the coil and use only the plug wire, not both.

My guess is gonna be with the Koso LIGHT Brown wire. I was supposed to connect this to 12V ignition and found a Honda Black line that had continuity with the black coming off the 12V ignition. Should be ok, right? Yes, this should be perfectly fine. Stock, all solid BLK Honda wires are carrying switched 12v from the ignition

Quote
RE: RUNNING LIGHTS

The only way I could get the running lights to work with my weird wiring, particularly with my tail light was by routing 12V ignition BLACK in place of BROWN (or BROWN/WHITE). Similarly, instead of using BLUE/WHITE and ORANGE/WHITE wires for the front signal running lights, I ran a 12V ignition BLACK to those. This was the only work around my wits could come up with to power all of these suckers. This is OK right? The draw of voltage is nominal as all lights are LED... Moving on.
Yep, this is a work-around. Do all 4 indicators glow and flash independently with each side correctly? If so, move on to the next problem  ;)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline minimo

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1977 CB550F IDK (first build)
« Reply #699 on: January 08, 2016, 07:36:00 AM »
Great Re: the temporary work around with the running lights. Thanks for the advice, calj! Nice of you to wade through all the text here - sorry about that 'cos here's more ;-)

I realize that we've gone through this once before with the Kawasaki Z1 switch, but here is what you recommended once before:
This is how I'd make sense of it. I am only 60% on this, because the diagrams I use for the 550 show a RED/Gr from the Starter Safety Motor involved in your harness, but you don't list it in yours as being present.

Switch -> Harness mapping should look like this (I think):
Red - BLK (switched 12v feed)
Blue bullet - BLK (switched 12v feed)
Blue socket -
Black - Y/R (to Solenoid)
Tan - Br/Wht (to instrumentation lighting)
Yellow/Red - Blk/Wht (to coils)

I'd want to test this connection scheme with a meter, to make sure I'm not completely wrong. The only time I've used this switch (or one similar) I spent a great while mapping it to an M-unit, and regrettably, thats been over a year ago  :-X
It seemed pretty straight forward and we got it to work before. Here's more on how the wiring was adapted:


So then should I disconnect that Blue/Red (KZ1) to Black (550)? I've already took the other blue out of the equation, as you see. Yeah, unfortunately the light switch kinda throws off this whole thing. I'm thinking after I get all of this sorted I'll consider adapting the light switch into a MISSILE LAUNCH ENGAGE switch.

Yes, the '77 550 has a three-position OFF•RUN•OFF switch

It seemed to work fine after this as I recall. I've changed nothing to the wiring on the switch since then. Wha-happon?