Topic: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)

[minimo]

I connected the BLK ElectroSport spade connector to the original black and the W went to the original white; pretty straight forward, I thought. Of course the harness was a relatively straight connection as well (but we have seen that ElectroSport crossed those wires before).

I will try measuring the Blk from the r/r and see how that compares to the battery voltage when I get chance later this evening...

Thanks!

[strynboen]

thek the green ground vire too...i sav a thread abaut a missing ground konnektion can make the same problem..i try to find a link...

[minimo]

Well, here's news from ElectroSport to settle the matter, I guess:

Lithium batteries have a regulator built into them all on their own.  You will need a specific reg/rect to work with this battery.  Something that charges at a lower rate than what other batteries require, I would recommend a mechanical regulator where you set the regulation point.

The ESR240 will always overcharge this battery, this battery cannot be charged at the same voltage level as a lead battery.

Ugh. Will have to look into some alternatives now. Rick's? Arrow? Any trusted compatibilities/issues with those brands?

[strynboen]

its just fzuk.
.all elektronic regulators vill vork..and hold the voltage at abaut 14 volt...its almost imposibel to find one vho not vill do that...i have used one from a old Volvo..all kinds of regulators can do the job..just get one vho use elektro magenet in the generator...any car truck tractor reg can be used...so long it not are for permanent magenet generators..vho regulates on a different vay..


https://tiscoparts.com/part-categories/electrical/voltage-regulator.html

[minimo]

I asked Rick's Motorsports about their regulator/rectifier 10-100 and received this reply:

The voltage set point on our rec-regs is 14.5-14.8 DCV which is not compatible with most Lithium Ion batteries…

My Shorai battery's max limit is 14.4V

What else it out there? What are my options? I really like the size and location of my battery and don't like to make changes with that, if possible... Ugh

[bwaller]

I asked the same question of Oregon Motorcycle Parts ( I use their VRREM7)and got this..."I don't see why there would be a problem, so far I can only recommend Shorai brand Lithium Batteries."

Maybe my question & his answer weren't very specific but I'm buying a Shorai. I've been using the same two Lithium batteries for years in my race bike under total loss and they are great. These were made from 8 cells from Dewalt batteries, but they're not cheap anymore.

[minimo]

I like Shorai too - great products and top-notch customer service.

Seems like a bit of a miracle but I just metered my battery and voltage at complete charge, per Shorai instructions (after 3 consecutive charge sessions, rapidly one after the next to saturate the cells) = 14.4V

cell 1 = 3.59V
cell 2 = 3.59V
cell 3 = 3.59V
cell 4 = 3.59V

After significant overcharge, the battery is still within good specs.

But, I'd like to make this all right so I'm still welcoming any thoughts/suggestions.

[minimo]

I continue to use a Ricks with a Shorai and have no issues whatsoever. No overcharge, no undercharge. Juuuust right 

Cool. Yeah, I've perused through some of your other comments on the topic, calj and I was curious which Shorai batteries you've had success with? Also, is the max allowable charge on Shorai LiFe Po batts all 14.4V? Perhaps the alleged 0.1-0.4V overcharge from a Rick's r/r isn't too critical?

Nevertheless, I went ahead and ordered one on Amazon and should be receiving a Rick's 10-100 r/r on Tues. I will keep y'all posted on how that works out.

[RAFster122s]

The LiFeO4 batteries are very robust and can handle discharge down to 2V without shortening the life too extensively. They are a nice solution as they can be fast charged much quicker than a Li Ion or LiPo battery pack.
David

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The LiFeO4 batteries are very robust and can handle discharge down to 2V without shortening the life too extensively.

I've had two-non-Shorai LiFeO4 batteries die (never to return) when they go down beyond approx 3v. Maybe it's a brand issue.  My Shorai has been fine. 

[minimo]

I finally got a chance to meter the BLACK line coming from the ElectroSport to GND and compared it to the power RED coming off the Shorai and just as calj suspected, the voltage from the battery was a little over 1V higher than the voltage metered from the r/r BLACK. I also metered the voltage at 12V ignition and got the same non-corresponding reading. What the heck?

[minimo]

Yes, BLACK and ignition reading the same - 1V lower than batt.

Somehow also, while I must have been pulling on some wires and such, I blew the main 15a fuse. Weird

[minimo]

Best get to cleaning the harness, Buddy  

So, pal, how to begin?

I received and installed my Rick's Motorsports 10-100 rectifier/regulator and I'm getting similar results as the ElectroSport ESR240 r/r - about 1V higher reading at the battery compared to ignition.

Could it be how I wired my aftermarket Emgo ignition switch? I thought I directly transferred the wires how I saw it when I swapped out the old OEM with the replacement... Here's the mess of how I've got it currently wired:

Wires on the left are coming from ignition. I'm a little suspicious of the combo of BROWN and BLACK wires... See any quick no-noes, calj?

[minimo]

Awesome! Thanks for the links, calj and Wilber!

And the last link - was that an example why I should not let a shop take care of wiring issues?
vonvendetta's experience sounds like the worst!

Although I feel as though I've done this already - buffing up the terminals in the harnesses, I will take to it again and add a better dielectric grease after cleanup. I'll start with the r/r wiring and other under-the-seat wires and work up the frame and then to the headlight bucket.

This may take a while...

[minimo]

thek the green ground vire too...i sav a thread abaut a missing ground konnektion can make the same problem..i try to find a link...

I'd be interested in reading that link if you can find it, strynboen.

[strynboen]

think it vas BODI vho had a good idea abaut that

[minimo]

The minus 1V at ignition is still a mystery...
Meanwhile, I upped the main jet size to 110. Carbs synched. Going out for a test run.

[minimo]

If it were me, I'd abandon the stock intermediate plugs and simplify the wiring. I'd run the RR straight to the battery (Red) and the remainder of the wires to the stock stator plug. This removes all doubt of connections, insures charging, and guarantees a ground.

[snip]
This was my starting point for troubleshooting. I isolated the r/r RED and ran it to the solenoid (battery) and the r/r GREEN to frame ground - still approximately minus 1V at ignition compared to battery.

I'm riding the bike daily as-is.with no problem other than my speedo gauge making me worry that the charge is "14.8V"! But nothing has exploded yet, so I guess that is good

I received this email from Shorai today:

I wanted to tell you that while the V is not unreasonable, it is a bit high (even for leads, especially without accessory loads).  Although the LFX doesn’t begin to experience any heat stress until right after 14.8, that voltage of 14.6 to 14.8V DOES keep the cells saturated.  So actually the voltage is ideal.  ALTHOUGH if the LFX starts out low voltage, the bike is cranked (even lower starting voltage after starter load applied) the charging system will charge it up at a higher amperage (voltage drops, amperage raises) and yes thatcan damage the battery and cause outgassing.  The key would be to keep the LFX charged nearer to its 14.4V or at the very least 13.3V and it should be fine.

Before cold start, I meter the battery at around 13.3V (reads 12.3V on my speedo - at ignition) so I guess that's healthy?

This long weekend I plan on studying the wiring diagram and will begin to eliminate some wires in my headlight bucket and elsewhere to see what the deal is... Any clues/ideas, please don't hesitate to chime in Thanks!

[minimo]

Thanks for the running list.
I like the idea of running my gauge source to another feed - I may try that first.

Thanks, calj!

[minimo]

New problem:

For whatever reason, I decided to yank out the aftermarket petcock filter from the gas tank - I noticed that the base flange of it had been mangled and tiny bits of it were floating around inside the tank. I fit an inline filter and now I'm having an issue with the float bowl overflow tubes dribbling fuel. I have since buffed the float tangs (smoothed down the dimples - per goldarrow's suggestion) and cleaned out some of the carb components and I'm still getting dribbles (a considerable flow) coming out of the bowls. It seems to dribble out of the carb depending on how I lean the bike - even upright.
What the heck did I do? Was it the in-tank petcock filter that I yanked out? Something else here? Complete carb cleanup/rebuild?

[minimo]

Thanks, calj.
Carbs are pulled and I've got the Berryman's Chemdip on tap.

[minimo]

I blew out the passages to my carbs and lo and behold, a long and funky piece of white plastic came out - looked like the same type of plastic from the petcock filter. Slapped everything back on, put in a new inline fuel filter, resynched the carbs and voila, no more dribbling fuel B-)

Also picked up a new part and excited to test it tonight:

The build doesn't stop. I still have the tank to rebuild :-)

[minimo]

Went 2up for the first time last night with a lady. Something very intimate and sensual about the experience. I imagine it's akin to maybe salsa dancing but with a better view. I'd hit bumps intentionally to get the tight squeeze

So, I was met by an old-timer recently who ran a boat-load of useful suggestions on my rebuild but one of them that he seemed adamant about was learning how to bypass the ignition and get the bike started in case I was stranded without the key. Calj, any idea how I would go about doing that with some wire clips or a paper clip even (if in a pinch)?

[bwaller]

Back when we were smokers, some wrapped up foil worked to jump between fuses.  Anyone remember cigarrettes? 

[Retro Rocket]

Back when we were smokers, some wrapped up foil worked to jump between fuses.  Anyone remember cigarrettes? 

Yes...   On the 750, the foil trick on the fuses bypassed the charging system, so you couldn't ride too far...