Topic: 1977 CB550F IDK (first build)

[minimo]

So I charged the battery. It reads 13.33V at full charge. Seems normal.

I also check out the BLK wire to 12V ignition, pulled it off the connector, checked good for continuity, and plugged it back in.

Started the bike up on the first kick and have the following readings:

Idle 1000rpm = seemed to drop to 11.4V then blipped the throttle to see quickly rise to 12.5V then back down to 11.4V...

Rev'd up to 2-3000rpm = reached a steady 12.3V

Dropped it back down to idle (accidentally lost grip) and the voltage seemed to also drop quite dramatically to about 11.4V (bike was also still cold)

4-5000rpm brought it gradually back up to 14.4V~ and then I decided to get the bike out for a steady ride on the freeway, keeping a steady 5000rpm for several minutes and it maintained a steady 15.3V

All charging systems seem normal as once before. Maybe the recharge did something to reset the battery, or perhaps the BLK line wasn't connected properly. Before the test I did also jiggle around the r/r harness and respective BLK and W connectors so maybe that did it?

But now, after the ride and all that charging, with a short rest and the bike OFF, I turn the ignition on and meter the batt = 16.4V

Too high? Dangerous?

[strynboen]

yes to heigh..elektronic kontroll is if it vorks.
.max 14,5.-14,8.it never goes heigher.
.still think you have a viring problem..you must fine one vho can do a korrekt thek of all the stuff you have mixed together.
..i think you have a reg from a permanent magenet setup..or have mounted it vrong.

.data says that you not have any regulating at all.. mine teori is that the elektro magenet is powered up all time..and make power after the rpm..not regulated at all

[calj737]

Way TOO high! The BLACK wire form your Reg/Rec is plugged into where? Wherever it is, with the bike running, measure the voltage at that connection compared to what you get at the battery. I suspect that the BLACK ignition wire is showing a very significant drop (perhaps only reading 11.x volts and thus the REG/REC is sending way more voltage to the battery.

Understand the BLACK Reg/Rec "meters" how much voltage to allow the battery to receive. If the battery is at 13.2v, but the BLACK wire sees 11.4v, then the R/R will send voltage based upon 11.4v and overcharge your battery. Riffman is having a similar issue but he's only off by 0.5v. You're off by 2+v! That will cook your battery in no time.

Time to start maintenance on your harness, Buddy. Every connection, every connector, every ground, needs to be spotless and clean. And you need to use your meter to trade voltage across the RED and BLACK circuits of your bike. Until you get them almost dead equal, and limit the charge to your battery to 14.8v do NOT ride your bike.

[minimo]

Copy that

[minimo]

I connected the BLK ElectroSport spade connector to the original black and the W went to the original white; pretty straight forward, I thought. Of course the harness was a relatively straight connection as well (but we have seen that ElectroSport crossed those wires before).

I will try measuring the Blk from the r/r and see how that compares to the battery voltage when I get chance later this evening...

Thanks!

[strynboen]

thek the green ground vire too...i sav a thread abaut a missing ground konnektion can make the same problem..i try to find a link...

[minimo]

Well, here's news from ElectroSport to settle the matter, I guess:

Lithium batteries have a regulator built into them all on their own.  You will need a specific reg/rect to work with this battery.  Something that charges at a lower rate than what other batteries require, I would recommend a mechanical regulator where you set the regulation point.

The ESR240 will always overcharge this battery, this battery cannot be charged at the same voltage level as a lead battery.

Ugh. Will have to look into some alternatives now. Rick's? Arrow? Any trusted compatibilities/issues with those brands?

[strynboen]

its just fzuk.
.all elektronic regulators vill vork..and hold the voltage at abaut 14 volt...its almost imposibel to find one vho not vill do that...i have used one from a old Volvo..all kinds of regulators can do the job..just get one vho use elektro magenet in the generator...any car truck tractor reg can be used...so long it not are for permanent magenet generators..vho regulates on a different vay..


https://tiscoparts.com/part-categories/electrical/voltage-regulator.html

[minimo]

I asked Rick's Motorsports about their regulator/rectifier 10-100 and received this reply:

The voltage set point on our rec-regs is 14.5-14.8 DCV which is not compatible with most Lithium Ion batteries…

My Shorai battery's max limit is 14.4V

What else it out there? What are my options? I really like the size and location of my battery and don't like to make changes with that, if possible... Ugh

[bwaller]

I asked the same question of Oregon Motorcycle Parts ( I use their VRREM7)and got this..."I don't see why there would be a problem, so far I can only recommend Shorai brand Lithium Batteries."

Maybe my question & his answer weren't very specific but I'm buying a Shorai. I've been using the same two Lithium batteries for years in my race bike under total loss and they are great. These were made from 8 cells from Dewalt batteries, but they're not cheap anymore.

[minimo]

I like Shorai too - great products and top-notch customer service.

Seems like a bit of a miracle but I just metered my battery and voltage at complete charge, per Shorai instructions (after 3 consecutive charge sessions, rapidly one after the next to saturate the cells) = 14.4V

cell 1 = 3.59V
cell 2 = 3.59V
cell 3 = 3.59V
cell 4 = 3.59V

After significant overcharge, the battery is still within good specs.

But, I'd like to make this all right so I'm still welcoming any thoughts/suggestions.

[calj737]

I continue to use a Ricks with a Shorai and have no issues whatsoever. No overcharge, no undercharge. Juuuust right 

[minimo]

I continue to use a Ricks with a Shorai and have no issues whatsoever. No overcharge, no undercharge. Juuuust right 

Cool. Yeah, I've perused through some of your other comments on the topic, calj and I was curious which Shorai batteries you've had success with? Also, is the max allowable charge on Shorai LiFe Po batts all 14.4V? Perhaps the alleged 0.1-0.4V overcharge from a Rick's r/r isn't too critical?

Nevertheless, I went ahead and ordered one on Amazon and should be receiving a Rick's 10-100 r/r on Tues. I will keep y'all posted on how that works out.

[RAFster122s]

The LiFeO4 batteries are very robust and can handle discharge down to 2V without shortening the life too extensively. They are a nice solution as they can be fast charged much quicker than a Li Ion or LiPo battery pack.
David

[calj737]

14A2 is the unit I use. And they're all hooked to a Ricks. At 5,000 my bikes stop charging at 14.4v but I have all new wiring and use MotoGadget stuff. Might be time to clean your harness a bunch more  If you're seeing too high a charge, that's an indication of corrosion or bad grounds somewhere in the bike because the R/R references the status of the battery to allow/limit charge being sent to it.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The LiFeO4 batteries are very robust and can handle discharge down to 2V without shortening the life too extensively.

I've had two-non-Shorai LiFeO4 batteries die (never to return) when they go down beyond approx 3v. Maybe it's a brand issue.  My Shorai has been fine. 

[minimo]

I finally got a chance to meter the BLACK line coming from the ElectroSport to GND and compared it to the power RED coming off the Shorai and just as calj suspected, the voltage from the battery was a little over 1V higher than the voltage metered from the r/r BLACK. I also metered the voltage at 12V ignition and got the same non-corresponding reading. What the heck?

[calj737]

Was the Black and ignition reading the same, 1v lower than the battery?

[minimo]

Yes, BLACK and ignition reading the same - 1V lower than batt.

Somehow also, while I must have been pulling on some wires and such, I blew the main 15a fuse. Weird

[calj737]

Best get to cleaning the harness, Buddy 

[minimo]

Best get to cleaning the harness, Buddy  

So, pal, how to begin?

I received and installed my Rick's Motorsports 10-100 rectifier/regulator and I'm getting similar results as the ElectroSport ESR240 r/r - about 1V higher reading at the battery compared to ignition.

Could it be how I wired my aftermarket Emgo ignition switch? I thought I directly transferred the wires how I saw it when I swapped out the old OEM with the replacement... Here's the mess of how I've got it currently wired:

Wires on the left are coming from ignition. I'm a little suspicious of the combo of BROWN and BLACK wires... See any quick no-noes, calj?

[calj737]

Swapping the Reg/Rec is not going to eliminate the voltage delta. And no, the ignition splices look fine enough.

Thank Wilbur, not me for assembling this:

"Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364"

Riffman also just went through a similar issue and ended up installing a relay to get his voltage equaled, but he spent a good effort cleaning per ^^^^ instructions and guidelines.

[minimo]

Awesome! Thanks for the links, calj and Wilber!

And the last link - was that an example why I should not let a shop take care of wiring issues?
vonvendetta's experience sounds like the worst!

Although I feel as though I've done this already - buffing up the terminals in the harnesses, I will take to it again and add a better dielectric grease after cleanup. I'll start with the r/r wiring and other under-the-seat wires and work up the frame and then to the headlight bucket.

This may take a while...

[minimo]

thek the green ground vire too...i sav a thread abaut a missing ground konnektion can make the same problem..i try to find a link...

I'd be interested in reading that link if you can find it, strynboen.

[strynboen]

think it vas BODI vho had a good idea abaut that