Topic: Removing swingarm bushings?

[Stev-o]

Look here, this should help you....

http://www.westernhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2450239&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1975&fveh=131064

[70CB750]

What is the long collar tube thing? I have only take out a big bolt with the grease zerks on it.

LOL! Been there. The long thingy is the actual pin. The bolt holds it together and bushings are between the collar and the arm.

[alacrity]

Yes, it's just a cylinder.  It has a wall thickness and that's as much of a "lip" as you're gonna get. That's why the solution of the proper diameter THICK washer (or more correctly, spacer), as I described in my link above is critical -- you can't get enough purchase with a drift on the edge of the old/bad bushing to get it out otherwise.

I powdercoated first, but it doesn't matter what order you do it in, because either way, you're gonna want to seal up the inside of the swingarm after blasting and before powder, as you just want a greased metal tube, not paint, inside there to house the pivot.

IF you use the top hat bushing like I did, don't let the powder coat get on the bushing head.  Have them tape that off with their heatproof tape first. As I indicated, it all BARELY fit into the frame as assembled -- in other words, it fit perfectly -- and adding a few hundredths of an inch of paint thickness to both (or more) could make it not fit together later.

[MCRider]

What is the long collar tube thing? I have only take out a big bolt with the grease zerks on it.

LOL! Been there. The long thingy is the actual pin. The bolt holds it together and bushings are between the collar and the arm.

Yeah, collar is an odd name for that part. I would've called it a pivot tube. But that name is sorta taken by the tube part of the swingarm where the whole mess lives.

[NonSequiterRex]

Blind bearing pullers / slide hammers are not that expensive and once you have one you will find the you need one fairly often. Neck bearing races, wheel bearings, etc
Best $50 I ever spent.

[SohRon]

Here's the "Collar"

The collar is what the swingarm pivots on, not the bolt. In actual operation, the collar and bolt remain stationary; installing the pivot bolt actually draws in the downtubes on the frame to help clamp them in place.

[Bailgang]

Blind bearing pullers / slide hammers are not that expensive and once you have one you will find the you need one fairly often. Neck bearing races, wheel bearings, etc
Best $50 I ever spent.

I rented mine from a local auto parts store that has "free" tool rental. Free meaning you pay a deposit that is the full price of the tool you're renting including tax so it's no skin off their nose if you don't return it because you essentially bought it anyhow which gives you more incentive to return it to get all your $ back. My store didn't have a basic blind hole puller kit so I had to rent a full blown heavy duty wheel bearing puller kit with an insanely huge slide hammer all of which was way overkill for what I needed and of all the adapters that was in the kit only 1 suited my need. I set the swingarm on a wooden step on my porch with my kid standing on it to keep it from moving, 3 smacks with the slide hammer and 1 bushing was out, flipped it over and 3 smacks later the other bushing was out. It was almost too easy

[70CB750]

^^^  +1 Autozone Rents tools.

[stereosilence]

I can't get the cylinder out. I have the plastic caps with the lip out, but I can't get the cylinder to budge. Any tricks?

Also, I went to advance auto parts for a blind bearing puller and came home with a clutch bearing puller or something like that. I couldn't find a meaningful way to use it.

Can somebody post a picture of exactly what I want?

[Stev-o]

I can't get the cylinder to budge. Any tricks?

Use a BFH!

[MCRider]

I can't get the cylinder to budge. Any tricks?

Use a BFH!

If by cylinder you mean collar, I agee with steve-o: BFH.

Along with heat and penetrating fluids.

The collar is steel, the later bushings are steel and they rust together. Even if you have the earlier phenolite or aftermarket bronze there is often quite a bit of corrosion. Detemine its diameter. Put the lower end of the tube on something just bigger than that, vice jaws should work,  hit the upper end of the collar with a drift that fits inside of the collar.

[stereosilence]

Well, crap. I don't have a drift or a BFH. Think a 5 pounder would do it? I also don't have a drift. This sucks.

[MCRider]

Well, crap. I don't have a drift or a BFH. Think a 5 pounder would do it? I also don't have a drift. This sucks.

Yeah 5 lb oughta do it. Do you have a sacrificial socket. Put a extension on it, drop the extension thru the collar to hold the socket in place on the collar, then wail.

Or something like that.

[Bailgang]

Can somebody post a picture of exactly what I want?

Ouch that's a tough one because I did a quick search and it turns out blind hole pullers come in all kinds of variety's so to avoid confusion I'll give you an idea of what I used and what to look for. The link provided isn't the exact pulling kit I rented but it's generally the same. The adapter you want to look for in the kit you decide to rent is a puller hook. In the link check out the individual adapter on the far left, it's the long slender thing with a slight hook on the end. You would simply thread that adapter onto the end of the slide hammer, insert it into the bushing till the hook grabs the back of the bushing and then slide hammer away.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/OTC-6540-Rear-Axle-Bearing-Puller-Set-8-Piece/16489696?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=16489696&sourceid=1500000000000003260430

[SohRon]

Again, you need a 3/4" steel pipe (Home Depot) approx. 3' long and a BFH. Stick the pipe through the pivot tube until it connects with butt-end of the seated bushing, then bang in a circular motion 'til the thing is forced out. I have done several swing arms at this point, and I must have been lucky because I didn't have to resort to hacksaws or bearing pullers; just the pipe from the opposite end got it out.

Same process works for the bearing seats in the steering head.

This pic shows the results: Top bushing is new from DSS, bottom bush is the old bush I knocked out of the pivot tube.

[stereosilence]

I bought a one-handed sledgehammer and beat out the collar as hard as I could. I could not get the collar to go more than flush with the swing arm (approx. 5 mm of play) on either side. I don't think I can hit it any harder without risking injury or damage to the swing arm.

I'm not sure what else I can do.

[Stev-o]

Heat it up. Repeat

[RickRR]

I did as Iron worker said and it work great but I didn't have a correct size washer so I took 3 25cents ..
I couldn't figure out how to put the washers in till I saw that the collar was full length and I had to take it out to see the lip to put the washers on.

I ordered the same bushing that cycle ranger linked, there great ,fast shipping.



 
 

[stereosilence]

Today, I took my stuff in to work and afterwards headed down to our little machine shop. I locked that swing arm in a big vice (between wood) and beat it like it owed me money. I probably had to hit it 20 times, full strength, two handed with my 4 lb hammer. Can the collar be cleaned up and reused?

I'm not sure what to do about getting the actual bushings out now. They look to be very solidly in place. I tried smashing away with something on the lip of the bushing but no luck at all. I think I may have to do the washers with a flat edge. This is very frustrating. I am waiting to get this done so I can get my stuff to the powder coaters before I head out of town for the holidays.

[HondaMan]

Today, I took my stuff in to work and afterwards headed down to our little machine shop. I locked that swing arm in a big vice (between wood) and beat it like it owed me money. I probably had to hit it 20 times, full strength, two handed with my 4 lb hammer. Can the collar be cleaned up and reused?

I'm not sure what to do about getting the actual bushings out now. They look to be very solidly in place. I tried smashing away with something on the lip of the bushing but no luck at all. I think I may have to do the washers with a flat edge. This is very frustrating. I am waiting to get this done so I can get my stuff to the powder coaters before I head out of town for the holidays.

Easy there, masher...if the collar was that rusted in place, the bushings will be worse. It is possible to damage the swingarm's pivot tube if you attempt enough pressure to force them out.

Try this old trick instead, shown in my book and posted here years ago: get a 12" long hacksaw, put the blade thru the swingarm, and assemble the saw around it. Then you can cut thru the bushings on each side: cut two grooves about 90 degrees apart, then take a small screwdriver and with a small hammer, tap up the edge of the small piece to release the grip against the inside of the pivot tube. Repeat on both sides, then you can knock the bushings out from the far side with a flat-blade screwdriver. Since you will be cutting straight along the pivot tube's axis, minor grooves into the tube won't hurt the arm when you install the new bushings later. If you make real deep cuts and gouges into the tube, fill them in with Steel JB Weld, let it set up 24 hours, then hone smooth to match the ID of the arm. I've repaired quite a few this way.

[stereosilence]

Well, I hope I didn't damage anything too much. I did put some dings here and there.

I locked it in the vice and used the washer method and described above. It took me maybe 15 min. start to finish. I put the washers in the sheers to cut some edges off. I started with 3 washers but every time a bushing came out, the washers went pinging around and I lost one washer for each bushing.

I plan to run a shotgun brush through to clean it out. Then I'll put in the new bushings and be off to the powder coaters. How do I get the new bushings in to the right depth? I plan to use the old hot swingarm, cold bushing trick.

[HondaMan]

The setback depth from the outside edge is 0.209".

[stereosilence]

When I took it apart, there were some rubber(?) seals and possibly a felt ring. Are these important/is there a kit offered?

They were completely unrecognizable on mine. Any suggestions?

[HondaMan]

When I took it apart, there were some rubber(?) seals and possibly a felt ring. Are these important/is there a kit offered?

They were completely unrecognizable on mine. Any suggestions?

Take a look at any Honda website, like the one at www.hondaparts-direct.com, look up a 1974 CB750K4 swingarm/chain case parts diagram. It will show you the parts that should be on the outside of the bushings, which is a felt washer (aka grease seal) and a phenolic end cap that Honda calls a "bush" because it is the bearing surface between the end of the swingarm pivot tube and the inside of the frame. These parts will cost you about $24 with shipping, typically.

There is also a pair of cup-shaped wahsers that fit over these ends, between the collar and the frame. This makes the final stack-up distance correct for your frame. Some of these washers have rubber seals inside, some don't. If you keep the arm greased on schedule, the seals are not important.

[stereosilence]

Damn. $24 more. Should I put the new bushings in before I go to the powder coaters?