Topic: Title and Bill of Sale

[fendersrule]

I bought a motorcycle off eBay from a seller that has sold a handful of bikes before and who has received 100% positive feedback.

Had the bike shipped to me awhile ago, along with the title, but not the bill of sale.

Here's my question:

My DMV says that I will need a bill of sale. I contacted the seller, and asked him to mail me it. He mentions that the title (matches the bike and already had a VIN nspection) had the previous owners' information. I have already filled out my information on the title in the 'buyer' fields. He asked me if he can sign the bill of sale, or does it have to be the previous owner's?

I figured I'd ask since the DMV opens on Monday.

[Stev-o]

The name of the seller on the title must match the name on the bill of sale. 
Ask him to get a bill of sale from the previous owner, if possible. 

[Bailgang]

You might want to double check with your DMV about what exactly is supposed to be on that bill of sale so you don't run into any more headaches. I parted out a vf500 interceptor and sold the frame with title to someone in Kentucky. It was a clean title in my name but none the less I had to make out a bill of sale assuring that there were no liens against it and that it was being sold as is and then had to have it notarized in order to make the Kentucky DMV happy.

[toytuff]

I don't understand. I just walk in with the title and all is good. Never asked for a BOS.

On the other side with a BOS I can't get a title.

I want to go look at this bike but as you can see no title.

tt

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/mcy/3448132822.html

[jamesb]

You didn't happen to buy the bike from a guy in Missouri did you. Here in Kansas we don't need a BOS unless its 35yrs or older and that's only if it doesn't have a title.

[Scott S]

 I live near the NC/SC state line. The SC title has a place to list leins and a place for a purchase price. We don't need a BOS.

 NC does need a bill of sale. Any time I sell a bike/car from SC to NC, I get a BOS from my bank and fill it out anyway. In fact, if I have a few extra copies, I'll fill it out no matter what state the title is from or going to.

 A hand written bill of sale is acceptable to. You should be able to get a blank BOS form and fill it out with everyones name and signature....hint, hint, wink, wink.

[Bailgang]

I don't understand. I just walk in with the title and all is good. Never asked for a BOS.

On the other side with a BOS I can't get a title.

I want to go look at this bike but as you can see no title.

tt

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/mcy/3448132822.html

As you've probably already noticed each state has it's own laws regarding vehicle titles and some can be a real PITA which is why it's important to talk to your local DMV to find out what all is required especially if you're considering purchasing a bike that doesn't have a title. As long as it isn't stolen then getting a new title is possible but it can be a real PITA depending on where you live. I had an 83 Yamaha XS650 that was given to me in exchange for getting another XS650 road worthy again but had changed hands many times and the original title was long gone. If I had tried hard enough I could've gotten a title for it but the cost for getting that title as well as the cost to get the bike going again just wasn't worth it. I ended up putting it on CL as a parts bike.

[dhall57]

On both my 750KO and K6 didn't have any problem here in NC. Walked in to the DMV (well not that easy stood in line for over a hour) handed them the titles paid the $5 notary fee for each and registration and lic. fee for each. Than in a couple weeks had titles in my name in hand. No BOS needed.

[Stev-o]

Obviously, each state is different.  Call them and ask exactly what is needed.
It's their game, you need to play by their rules. Follow them and you'll have no issues.

[toytuff]

You have to bond the bike in Arizona then wait forever. If you do get a title than those fees plus Arizona Dept. of Transportation fees on top of that.

I laugh at sellers who say no title but you can get one in a couple of weeks. If it's that easy get one before you sell.

Go figure.

tt

[Xnavylfr]

You can get a TRANSFERABLE REGISTRATION and plate through here, then change it to your home state..

http://hondachopper.yuku.com/topic/49295/TITLE-INFO

Only need to have BOS and VIN verified by an OFFICIAL then send $$$


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[Stev-o]

You can get a TRANSFERABLE REGISTRATION and plate through here, then change it to your home state.
Only need to have BOS and VIN verified by an OFFICIAL then send $$$

Why would he want to go through this process? He has a title, just needs a BOS from the original seller.

[toytuff]

You can get a TRANSFERABLE REGISTRATION and plate through here, then change it to your home state.
Only need to have BOS and VIN verified by an OFFICIAL then send $$$

Why would he want to go through this process? He has a title, just needs a BOS from the original seller.

Exactly.

tt

[fendersrule]

Called the DMV yesterday.

Since the title has the previous owner's name/signature from the person that the seller bought it from, then I'm going to need a their bill of sale, and an additional bill of sale showing my transaction. It's easy...that's what I need.

The seller just wants me to put the POs name on the bill of sale. Yea right.

He should be able to come up with what I need. It's his responsibility.

[fendersrule]

The seller is insisting that I just fill out the previous owner's information on the bill of sale and be done with it.

I told him to:

* Since he apparently doesn't have a previous Bill of Sale, then I told him to fill out a document with his signature that he purchased the motorcycle from first name last name. Date it, VIN it, put the model/name of the bike, etc.

* Fill out another document that is our bill of sale.

No réponse from him yet. Not sure what to do.

[fendersrule]

Another call to the DMV tells me this:

The seller has to fill out a power of attorney to grant me rights to the documents.

The seller needs to fill out the bill of sale.

[Stev-o]

The seller is insisting that I just fill out the previous owner's information on the bill of sale and be done with it.

That's what I would do just for the sake of ease and to get it over with.

[Xnavylfr]

Some things can be SO simple to handle but WHO is left , if the VIN is HOT and that's why the PO didn't want to give a BOS.
I just went through this with a guy in NC ( MY wife is a NOTARY) he had a bike for sale and TITLE was in ?BROTHERS name? I told him my wife would notarize the title IF his BROTHER??? was there so she could see his signature and an ID... Well for some reason the add was pulled and NO contact since I wanted VIN verification!!!

I know how I would handle it but everybody else seems to be the experts!!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[fendersrule]

The seller is insisting that I just fill out the previous owner's information on the bill of sale and be done with it.

That's what I would do just for the sake of ease and to get it over with.

But here's the problem with that approach. How many illegal activities to you see here:

1) Me filling in my information on the previous title in the blank "buyer" fields.

Probably not illegal, but probably in the grey area. If a bill of sale wasn't required, I would do it. However:

2) Me then filling out a bill of sale in the absence of the seller and the previous owner. Since the name on the BOS must match the name on the title, the seller told me to fill in the previous owner's name on the bill of sale, and forge his signature.

This I see as the big no-no. How do I know the bike is truly legit? How do I know the previous owner really sold the bike? I would be held responsible for something here.

In Michigan (where the bike was titled), you don't need a BOS. However, in order to legally "release" the bike, the buyer must fill out his information and sign on the title for it to be a done deal. Technically speaking, the bike is still in the previous owner's name, and not the seller.

Anyhow, I called the seller, and he gave me the run around at first. Then he finally agreed to sign/print the Bill of sale and the Power of Attorney documents that I've emailed to him and then notarize, and then mail them back to me. With those documents, I should be able to finally get this thing registered in my name. It's the safe, legal, and sure way to do it without me being thrown in jail if this thing really is a hot bike. The DMV lady (who was actually very helpful over the phone) was a little dumbfounded that the seller wouldn't have titled it once he purchased the bike, even dealers must do this.

From my research on the seller, he's legit. He buys and resales lots of bikes. Even then, I would recommend that he needs to get the title transferred over into his name so future buyers don't have to go through hassle.

Anyways, I should be receiving the proper documents later this week, so my mind is at ease.

[Stev-o]

Not all states require notarized BOS's.  TX does not. 

Costs money to transfer titles, and that cuts profits out of flippers pockets, so they dont do it. The DMV lady just is just looking at it from her angle. 

Hope this works out for you soon.

[fendersrule]

I still find it sketchy to fill out and sign a legal document for someone else in which I would be held responsible if things weren't as they seem....

If the seller wanted me to do that, then he could have forged the BOS himself, as long as I don't know about it.

It's not my fault or responsibility that the seller would have paid money to transfer the title. There's other ways to get around that. When I bought a bike with a "clear" title, then I expect to go down to my DMV and get it titled. I shouldn't have to forge anything.

Being that I'm clear across country and I don't have the answers to everything, then I'd rather play it safe. The route I'm going shouldn't require the seller to pay anything that he previously may have owed. The Power of Attorney form should allow me to represent the title and the bike, so then I could probably fill out the title and claim ownership of it.

As you know, I've put in a #$%*load of work into it. Would hate to see all of that go to waste. But I'm sure things are fine. For awhile there, I was worrying if the bike was "truely" mine. What a terrible feeling!

[Stev-o]

Totally understand.  But there is an old saying: Caveat emptor.

Bet you never have this issue again!

[fendersrule]

Yep, and "live and learn."

Ever try out that choke knob trick? It's still working just great for me....

[Stev-o]

No, the K8 is under cover in storage. Been working on the K5, and has the choke lever.

[Xnavylfr]

The reason most people that just flip bikes for a profit, won't go to the trouble or EXPENSE to title in their name. Some states require a notary on the title transfer and others don't. The states that don't are the easy turnovers, the PO signs the title and you take your prise home . Clean the carbs and gas tank of the gas that has been there for 10 years, replace and do a little spit and polish and turn around and sell it for 1000$, hand the NEW owner the title and tell him sign here and print here and off he goes.. NOTHING ILLEGAL about the transaction!!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

The states just want their MONEY. Here in NC, if you have a title that the PO has transfered (BY SIGNATURE) to a new owner ,not you, and never registered it , then the state want HIM to register it ,wait for the TITLE then transfer the NEW title to you, but there are legal way around that also!!! Just have to file MORE paper!!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)