Topic: Cafe Racers - Touchy Subject??

[Jay Ace]

I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of what I am doing. My bike, bought with my own 'hard-earned" money and I will do with it as I please. It goes the other way around 

[madScientist]

I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of what I am doing. My bike, bought with my own 'hard-earned" money and I will do with it as I please. It goes the other way around 

I have the same thoughts. It's my bike and i'll do with it what I want (without junking it out...lets not get crazy here). If you dont like it, go get your own.

I got the same flack when I built my first resto-mod 66 mustang AND when I dropped a turbo 2.3L ford engine and drive train in a 69 Triumph Spitfire.

[robnobrakes]

Body parts collected this afternoon from the painter.  A couple of small blemises to the new Cafe seat unit are being attended to before I collect it.  In the meantime here is the new paint job inspired by the 1960's Team Lotus Formula One cars, as driven by the late, great Jim Clark.  My painter used official Lotus paint codes   Tank badges are genuine Honda parts from the 1960's.


Clearly, my wife has not returned home from work yet 

[Stev-o]

Some guys just think that these old Hondas are best restored back to original condition.
They cannot fathom why someone would "ruin" what the Honda engineers did to make the bikes perfect in their minds.
I like the cafe bikes, but I personally would not take one in all original cond and spend thousands modifying it to have a bike that might be valued less. 

[robnobrakes]

Some guys just think that these old Hondas are best restored back to original condition.
They cannot fathom why someone would "ruin" what the Honda engineers did to make the bikes perfect in their minds.
I like the cafe bikes, but I personally would not take one in all original cond and spend thousands modifying it to have a bike that might be valued less.

My 400/4 already had the non stock exhaust, seat and rear suspension units.  I did not pay a great deal for it.  All the stock parts have been sold for good money on Ebay, so it stands me in for almost pocket money.

I spent more on the modifications on the Thruxton than it's original purchase price.  I had guys queuing up to buy it and lost no money at all over almost 7 years ownership

[CafeDawg]

rob,
Did you run the Thruxton @ the TT?  Really like the Lotus colours and I'm sure the rest of the bike will follow suit.  Stockers vs Modders is what makes the world go round.  It's all in the minds eye, Stock guys want the bike they remember and Mods the bike they imagine.  Neither usually gets their, even if they have the skills, time and $$,it's never quite the way you wanted it.  Ain't it a #$%*! Keep the pics coming.
Respect
CD

[lone*X]

There isn't an overall bias against Cafe' bikes on this forum.  Look at the BOM selections for the past few years and you will see a number of them receiving the top award.  And this year a Cafe' won the Bike of the Year award, if I read the votes correctly.  I think what is perceived as bias against Cafe' bikes is that many, myself included, feel that since these classics are in limited and dwindling supply a clean restore-able bike shouldn't be cut up and modified to the point of never being able to return it to stock.  There are far more non-stock, previously modified CB's out there that are great rebuild fodder for a Cafe' than there are restore-able survivors.   Most of us just don't care for seeing a clean piece of history being cut up. 

 

[robnobrakes]

At the risk of causing more upset


New flanged alloy rims, stainless steel spokes, and refurbished stock hubs

[crazypj]

RNB, did you go wider on rims (WM2 front/WM3 rear) or stick with stock WM1/WM2?

[70CB750]

Actually all Bike of the Year winners are Cafes.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90442.0

[Bailgang]

I agree that it's you're bike, do what you want with it. I'd rather see a highly modified vintage bike that actually runs and being ridden than hearing a story of someone who neglected their bike and sent it off to the scrap yard never to be seen again in either original or modified form because they didn't think it was worth anything.

The problem I have is that when you customize your bike your customizing it to your tastes. I've seen all kinds of custom bikes and no matter how cool they were there was always something about it that I would've done different had it been mine. This is an issue because my local CL has a bunch of vintage CB's however 99% of them are unfinished chopper, bobber or cafe projects that the owner started but lost interest but has already chopped the daylight out of the frame possibly doing mods that you the potential buyer wouldn't have done had it been yours therefore it has little value to you because you'd have to start from scratch to make it your way and the owners of these unfinished projects can't hardly give these bikes away because of it. Many times these unfinished projects never ever see the road again simply because major mods were started but never finished, and that really sucks.

[robnobrakes]

RNB, did you go wider on rims (WM2 front/WM3 rear) or stick with stock WM1/WM2?

Stock rim widths with Avon tyres.

[robnobrakes]

rob,
Did you run the Thruxton @ the TT? 

No, but I did ride it around the Brands Hatch full GP Circuit

[robnobrakes]

The problem I have is that when you customize your bike your customizing it to your tastes. I've seen all kinds of custom bikes and no matter how cool they were there was always something about it that I would've done different had it been mine. This is an issue because my local CL has a bunch of vintage CB's however 99% of them are unfinished chopper, bobber or cafe projects that the owner started but lost interest but has already chopped the daylight out of the frame possibly doing mods that you the potential buyer wouldn't have done had it been yours therefore it has little value to you because you'd have to start from scratch to make it your way and the owners of these unfinished projects can't hardly give these bikes away because of it. Many times these unfinished projects never ever see the road again simply because major mods were started but never finished, and that really sucks.

That's the point isn't it?  To customise a bike so that it IS unique, not what Honda or whoever decide we should ride

[Duke McDukiedook]

Nah, I don't think most people on here hate cafe chops as long as they are done with decent design intent and execution.
It's the crappy hack jobs that most people don't like or the doofus that trolls and puts on a jackshaft and a Busa swingarm and rear tire when we know he did not do it properly.

And hacking up '69-'71 750's that are bone stock, those are kinda near and dear to 750 enthusiasts. There are just some things you just lovingly restore and don't take a torch to.

[Bailgang]

That's the point isn't it?  To customise a bike so that it IS unique, not what Honda or whoever decide we should ride

The point is making the bike unique but not following through and finishing the project because you lost interest. So now you not only have a bike that you don't want but nobody else wants either because of your quest to be unique which depending on how radical the mods are could possibly mean another vintage bike got snuffed out of existence. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for building a bike to suit your tastes because the bottom line is that it's your bike your $ so knock yourself out. It just makes me sad to see so many unfinished project bikes that may never see the road again because of someone else's failed attempt to be unique.

[robnobrakes]

Bought at the beginning of November 2012, mine will be completed and back on the road, ridden with enthusiasm, in the new year

[Dyrden]

I'm all for preserving rare, pristine, iconic examples of design and engineering.  But, I also have an angle grinder and a passion for making things mine.  Even if it means they become less safe, or less practical its what makes me happy.  I know my CB has better brakes, better tires, less weight and more power than it did when I first got it and thats what its all about.

[robnobrakes]

I'm all for preserving rare, pristine, iconic examples of design and engineering.  But, I also have an angle grinder and a passion for making things mine.  Even if it means they become less safe, or less practical its what makes me happy.  I know my CB has better brakes, better tires, less weight and more power than it did when I first got it and thats what its all about.

My thoughts entirely

[hondalav]

Rob,
Please keep up the story and the pics around the build. I like the Lotus paint scheme as it is different to the usual cafe build's.

Don't understand the fuss about changing a bike that was built in large quantities. There are more than enough 400/4's in original condition around, so it's not like you're ruining a rare sandcast 750!

[TwoTired]

Actually all Bike of the Year winners are Cafes.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90442.0

...And that is why I don't bother to vote anymore.  It is far more about "popular" or eye candy than than any performance where the numbers are actually published or proven.

[TwoTired]

Bought at the beginning of November 2012, mine will be completed and back on the road, ridden with enthusiasm, in the new year

And, you'll sell it to fund yet another project soon after the constant stream of adulation dwindles and someone offers you your money back (or profit).  ..or you get bored or "need the room".

Yeah, that's real love for the genre.

I wonder, how will you know you made any "improvement" to the bike, by praise, or performance numbers?
You did make a baseline chart before ripping it to pieces, right?

Oh, by the way, nice paint.  Seems you can afford to pay someone for their skills.  ...Just like the cafe's of the '50s.
Oh wait...  Were those built for "the look"?

The most prominent attributes among members of the human race is their ability to destroy and have a good time during and after the process.


...beers all around. 

[andy750]

Actually all Bike of the Year winners are Cafes.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90442.0

...And that is why I don't bother to vote anymore.  It is far more about "popular" or eye candy than than any performance where the numbers are actually published or proven.

If you dont vote then dont complain. Look again at the Winners gallery and there more than a few that have the dyno numbers to back up the mods.

[750K]

I think what is perceived as bias against Cafe' bikes is that many, myself included, feel that since these classics are in limited and dwindling supply a clean restore-able bike shouldn't be cut up and modified to the point of never being able to return it to stock.  There are far more non-stock, previously modified CB's out there that are great rebuild fodder for a Cafe' than there are restore-able survivors.   Most of us just don't care for seeing a clean piece of history being cut up.

Well said and bang on, a friend of mine took a real nice stock 400f and has totally chopped it and #$%*ed any chance of it ever being brought back to stock ever again. A shame when there's more old vintage bikes around that aren't stock he could've cafed the hell out of. He doesn't even ride it anymore, nor does anyone want to buy it. There's not a lot of 400f's around here and if it was close to original condition he could sell it in a heartbeat, so now it's just rotting in his shop space. Damn shame and I'm actually not a huge fan of the 400f's, I'd rather see it out being ridden than rotting in a corner...

[Jerry E.]

It takes alot of effort to build a (real?)cafe bike, it's not just replacing/refinishing an existing bike's components. No design effort to freshening up a bike, back to stock. I bought my bike to use for a cafe project, not to restore. I can see my finished bike in my mind, and that is what I am aiming for. So far , so good. And I will finish/keep it when done.Not that there is anything wrong with doing a restoration, but if you bought a non-running bike from a salvage yard (like I did), that was in rough shape, it's easier/better to do a mod project with it. I wouldn't restore a bike that wasn't in decent shape to begin with- too pricey. Besides,there wouldn't be as many aftermarket/stock parts still around for these bikes, if all anyone did with them was "restore" them. We need the diversity this bike brings out in people, to keep interest in them high. That being said, I really don't care what people think about "cafe racers"- I like them!