Topic: Cafe Racers - Touchy Subject??

[jas67]

It just makes me sad to see so many unfinished project bikes that may never see the road again because of someone else's failed attempt to be unique.

+1   

But, of course, no one starts a project with the intention to fail.     Life sometimes gets in the way.

The upside, is these failed attempts sometimes result in valuable parts becoming available to save other bikes.

[jas67]

Don't understand the fuss about changing a bike that was built in large quantities. There are more than enough 400/4's in original condition around, so it's not like you're ruining a rare sandcast 750!

Actually, at least in the US, the 400/4's are quite rare in original condition.     That said, Rob's wasn't really in "original condition".    It was in "restoreable" condition.   So, IMHO, he can go either way w/o be ashamed.    Even though, I, personally prefer to keep my bikes original, I appreciate a well-done custom cafe, and look forward to seeing Rob's build evolve.     I doubt that there are many that buy a pristine example of any of these bikes to cut up to make a cafe, bobber, or chopper.   There are plenty of lessor examples available for way less money to do that with.

[Terry in Australia]

Beautiful work Rob, keep going mate and don't worry about the nay-sayers, (especially Two Tired, if he's bothered to read your previous posts about the work you put into your Thruxton, he'd know that you're not a 17 year old kid with an angle grinder and no skills) maybe you'd be better off starting a new build thread so that your posts don't get lost in the sea of bullschidt? I still don't like 400/4's, but I do like the quality of the work you're putting into your build. Cheers, Terry.

[scottly]

Hey Rob, I noticed the anti-cafe sentiment when I first joined the forum, as well. It seems to have stemmed from someone who claimed to have invented the cafe, and turned the term into a cliche??
I like the Lotus paint job! Colin would approve.

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere"

[petercb750]

Hey Rob, do WeverTF you want to do - you only have to please yourself, not all the knockers and "experts".
I like the cafe look, when it's done to my tastes .
Hope to help a mate of mine next year build up a little CB175 cafe, will be fun. Very 
Peter.

[Terry in Australia]

I think it's fair to day that guy was responsible for "Re-Inventing" the Cafe Racer Scott, and the ruination of many mint and near mint 750's.

I've got no issue with turning a 750 that's too far gone into something cool, but I do despair when I see someone turn a nice clean original OEM paint 750 ito a "Cafe/Bobber/chopper/pile-o-crap", and the owner proudly states, "I paid for it, so I can do what I like with it". I can think of something he can do with it...............    

[Brandedone88]

As someone who will forever be connected to a very ancient American motorcycle manufacturer, I call those guys idiots.  However, I will always ride whatever bike I want to ride.  Don't worry about it.   If you can take a very lousy four cylinder engine, and make it keep up with a 550 or hold its own with a modern bike then you got what the Cafe racer craze was about.   Unfortunately, I wish there were more people here in the states who were like you.  But then I guess I am a throwback from another era.

[scottly]

I do agree that it is a waste to hack up a nice stock gas tank, weld in an ugly sheet metal spacer, and smother it with bondo in an attempt to blend it in. Oh yeah, a checkerboard paint job, and "cafe" painted on the tank. Yeah, that's the ticket!

[TwoTired]

Beautiful work Rob, keep going mate and don't worry about the nay-sayers, (especially Two Tired, if he's bothered to read your previous posts about the work you put into your Thruxton, he'd know that you're not a 17 year old kid with an angle grinder and no skills) maybe you'd be better off starting a new build thread so that your posts don't get lost in the sea of bullschidt? I still don't like 400/4's, but I do like the quality of the work you're putting into your build. Cheers, Terry.

Yeah, and he loved it sooo much, he sold it off. ...for profit.       
Could it be he's just talking it up to sell?  Of course, TIA would know way more about THAT!  No surprise he would support those with like mind.  (I use the term loosely.)

Yeah, cafe racers are really great...to sell and get something better to actually ride.  Maybe there will be a TV show deal?

Ain't it great we can all have an opinion without fear of persecution?  (But, only if you agree with Terry.)

Anyway, I really don't care if you wish to resurrect a bike destined for the junk heap.  Taking a complete runner and hacking it to bits for style purposes, is quite another matter.  But, there are many self deluded people on this forum who think they can build better than Honda. However, Honda has the sales numbers and ongoing support to prove they can.

How many cafe creators warranty their sell-off?

[scottly]

Yeah, cafe racers are really great...to sell and get something better to actually ride.

I beg your pardon!? I've owned and ridden my cafe style bike for over 30 years. I rode 650 miles on this year's relay; how many relay miles did you ride this year, Lloyd?

[seanbarney41]

my cafe bike is my daily transportation (when it's above 35 and not snowing)...it fetches grocery's, get's me to work, and riding it to nowhere in particular to the tune 15,000 miles a year...TwoTired post a 14.1 second quarter mile timeslip (that's not even very fast, my first time racing)and then talk some more...

[robnobrakes]

Beautiful work Rob, keep going mate and don't worry about the nay-sayers, (especially Two Tired, if he's bothered to read your previous posts about the work you put into your Thruxton, he'd know that you're not a 17 year old kid with an angle grinder and no skills) maybe you'd be better off starting a new build thread so that your posts don't get lost in the sea of bullschidt? I still don't like 400/4's, but I do like the quality of the work you're putting into your build. Cheers, Terry.

Since you appreciate my Thruxton here is the full specification of modifications

2006 TRIUMPH THRUXTON

Mechanical Specification:

Wiseco forged aluminium high compression pistons and cast iron liners.  Bore 92mm +6mm oversize, Stroke 68mm.  Displacement:  904cc
Oversize inlet valves (+2mm) and exhaust valves (plus 1.5mm).
Camshafts re-profiled for higher lift and longer duration.
Crankcase breather size increased from 6mm to 13mm diameter.
Keihin FCR 39mm flat-slide race carburettors with open velocity stacks, controlled by ¼ turn quick action throttle. (Carburettors supplied by BR Special Tuning, Wales)
Billet alloy intake manifolds (supplied by British Customs, USA)
Cylinder head gas flowed, ported and skimmed (10.8 to 1) 
Fly wheel balanced and lightened 440g. 
Triumph Twins modified igniter. (Increases rev limit to 8,500rpm and advances ignition timing).
Heavy duty (+10%) clutch springs. 
Predator stainless steel race exhausts.  (supplied by British Customs, USA.)
Pretech 6-pot billet alloy race spec caliper (supplied by Pretech Precision Engineering, Reading.)
Brembo radial master cylinder.
EBC Prolite fully floating front disc (Road Spec). 
Bendix MRR 183 race pads (YZF750 spec.).
Norman Hyde fork brace.
Norman Hyde steering damper. 
Ikon adjustable rear suspension. 
Drive sprockets changed from 18/43 to 19/41.
Titanium nuts and bolts for engine casings, discs, sprocket, caliper’s etc.  (Supplied by Pro Bolt)
Avon Azaro tyres (Road):  110x80x18 front, 140x80x17.
Second set of Thruxton rims fitted with Avon 110x80x18 AM22 &140x80x17 AM 23 race tyres for track day use.
EBC Prolite fully floating race spec front disc for track day use.
Scottoiler automatic chain lubrication.
Moto-Detail oil temperature gauge

Cosmetic Specification:

Handmade ‘Slippery Sam’ polished aluminium fuel tank.  (Supplied by T A Baker Tanks, Wales.)
Alloy Monza fuel cap.
CNC billet alloy ‘race’ footpegs.  (Supplied by Oberon Performance)
Handmade aluminium number plates.   (Supplied by CW Classic)
Homemade hand-cut ‘race’ numbers.
Homemade aluminium fly screen.
Rear mudguard shortened,reshaped and resprayed.
Homemade aluminium rear light and number plate mounting.
Rizoma billet alloy front brake master cylinder.
Bonneville T100 black & grey speedometer and tachometer.
Drilled and polished gear lever and rear brake lever.
Homemade aluminium chain guard at front sprocket.
Stock seat unit modified to fit with the fuel tank.
Polished alloy seat cowl.  (Supplied by The Tank Shop, Scotland.)
Polished alloy front mudguard.  (Supplied by The Tank Shop, Scotland.)
Billet aluminium indicator lights. (Supplied by Motrax)
Billet aluminium LED rear light. (Supplied by Motrax)
Billet aluminium bar end mirror.  (Supplied by Oberon Performance)
Oberon clutch terminator bracket CNC/3D machined from T6 billet aluminium.
Homemade stainless steel alignment bracket for clutch cable.
Stainless steel headlamp guard.
Circa 1959 cherished number plate.


Performance Data (rolling road tested @ rear wheel): 

Stock motor:       52.0 bhp, 41 ft/lbs torque.
Tuned motor:    88.43 bhp, 63.52 ft/lbs (open velocity stacks and 150 main jets)
Kerb Weight:     
211 kg wet (with 4 gallons of fuel & 4 litre oil). 
Dry weight approximately 193kg.  Triumph claim 205kg dry with stock Thruxton.

Standing Quarter Mile (At North Weald RWYB 10 May 2009)  12.69 seconds: 111mph using tall gearing (should have swaped back to the stock shorter gearing for sprinting ).

Rolling road comparison between stock and modified ignition module


Really classy Motorcycle News (MCN) professionally taken photos before the seat and front fender were changed.

[scottly]

Good show, Rob. More proof that even the best can be improved on. 

[seanbarney41]

ok...the proof is in the pudding ...please cafe that 400...make one for me too

[robnobrakes]

Good show, Rob. More proof that even the best can be improved on. 

 
I just loved the gentle flow of the line from the underside of the tank to the tail unit.  So much better than the stock bike IMO.

and the starting point...

[robnobrakes]

Rob,
Please keep up the story and the pics around the build. I like the Lotus paint scheme as it is different to the usual cafe build's.

Don't understand the fuss about changing a bike that was built in large quantities. There are more than enough 400/4's in original condition around, so it's not like you're ruining a rare sandcast 750!

Here is the great man himself at Brands Hatch in the late 1960's

and the 2008/9 Lotus Elise Type 25 limited to 24 cars I think (in recognition of the number of Grands Prix wins achieved by Jim Clark)


Great inspiration for my 400/4

[dustyc]

Excellent Bob, I want a Ducati Monster S2R, and I love those big V Twin Honda's, I also want to buy an RC51 before the prices go ballistic. I think I would have kept the Thruxton and sold the Tiger though...............

Perhaps my only chance to make Terry jealous.   

[Terry in Australia]

Excellent Bob, I want a Ducati Monster S2R, and I love those big V Twin Honda's, I also want to buy an RC51 before the prices go ballistic. I think I would have kept the Thruxton and sold the Tiger though...............

Perhaps my only chance to make Terry jealous.   

Ha ha, you got me mate, I just turned green with envy, very nice! Cheers, Terry.

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, and he loved it sooo much, he sold it off. ...for profit.     

Sooo, the only "righteous" thing to do would be to sell it at a loss? Good plan Lloyd. That's some smart thinking...........

Could it be he's just talking it up to sell?  Of course, TIA would know way more about THAT!  No surprise he would support those with like mind.  (I use the term loosely.)

Ha ha, speaking of which, are you still trying to mooch money from the members here for your miracle test equipment that will prove beyond doubt that oil coolers are unneccessary? Even though every bike manufacturer puts them on bikes now anyway? Including Honda? Yeah, I'll "invest" in that technology, I'm sure it'll be a money spinner............ 

Yeah, cafe racers are really great...to sell and get something better to actually ride.  Maybe there will be a TV show deal?

What's wrong Lloyd, they haven't made a show about old nasty old whiners with no friends yet? There's probably a reason for that............

Ain't it great we can all have an opinion without fear of persecution?  (But, only if you agree with Terry.)

It's not your "opinions" that annoy people here, it's the aggressive manner in which you present them, accusing the OP of everything from ruining his bike to creating this thread just to advertise the sale of a bike he hasn't even built yet, from the safety of your computer, thousands of miles away. Pretty cowardly really, but that's always been your MO, hasn't it.

Anyway, I really don't care if you wish to resurrect a bike destined for the junk heap.  Taking a complete runner and hacking it to bits for style purposes, is quite another matter.  But, there are many self deluded people on this forum who think they can build better than Honda. However, Honda has the sales numbers and ongoing support to prove they can.

Honda made thousands of 400/4's, I don't think they'd mind if Rob makes an attempt to improve on their basic design, not that it's any of your business anyway.

How many cafe creators warranty their sell-off?

How many private sellers provide a warranty? How many sellers honor their warranties? Why do you even expect a warranty on a used bike? From what I understand, you mooch most of your bikes anyway, do you ask the people who give them to you for a warranty? I bet you do, too............

[robnobrakes]

Beautiful work Rob, keep going mate and don't worry about the nay-sayers, (especially Two Tired, if he's bothered to read your previous posts about the work you put into your Thruxton, he'd know that you're not a 17 year old kid with an angle grinder and no skills) maybe you'd be better off starting a new build thread so that your posts don't get lost in the sea of bullschidt? I still don't like 400/4's, but I do like the quality of the work you're putting into your build. Cheers, Terry.

New tread started in Project Workshop

[mitchv60]

I thought I'd chime in as I've just joined the forum.

As a friend of Robs he is very passionate about his bikes and has always been ever since I have known him.He's not one of these guys that will cover the bike in anodized bolts and flames just cause he thinks it's cool.That said I don't always like what he does but that's personal tast for you.
If you wanted to be pedantic yes maybe the bike could have been returned to 100% original condition but that's not why he bought it.
I do agree with to a point the sentiments on here that good clean bikes should be kept that way and the rust buckets should be modified.

I myself have just started a cafe build(2months before Rob)on a 72 cb500K2 but mine is rust,rust and more rust so it's turned into a full build not a small project.

[robnobrakes]

Mitch, you wasted no time in chiming in

[Killer Canary]

So here's a very pertinent question; please speak up all: how many members built their cafes beforethe  present fad ( I guess there must be one in the rest of the world ) began?

[mitchv60]

Mitch, you wasted no time in chiming in

You know me

[Tews19]

Body parts collected this afternoon from the painter.  A couple of small blemises to the new Cafe seat unit are being attended to before I collect it.  In the meantime here is the new paint job inspired by the 1960's Team Lotus Formula One cars, as driven by the late, great Jim Clark.  My painter used official Lotus paint codes   Tank badges are genuine Honda parts from the 1960's.


Clearly, my wife has not returned home from work yet 

GO GREEN BAY PACKERS!