Author Topic: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)  (Read 18819 times)

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Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2013, 06:39:46 PM »
I should have updated this thread yesterday. Or today. What happened was I had to make the decision to put my dog down. I spent most of Monday with him.  I found him on a dirt road back in '03, and we've been best buds ever since, so yeah it was hard to do.

Last weekend I took a bunch of parts to work ( master cylinders and calipers) to take a part and clean. As much as I had soaked the one mc and tried to blast the rust off the clip I could not get it out. I even broke both ends off trying. I ended up pushing it out with an arbor press. Ive now got 3 mc's, two calipers, both super and lower trees clean and ready. The only think I have that I will use is a caliper piston. One has just a little pinpoint of rust, which is better than the piston in the caliper I plan to use. When I swapped a gl1000 front onto my '73 I kept the old parts, so I plan to use that setup since I know it works and doesn't need rebuilding.
Monday I put my dog down, and went to a friends house to drink myself into oblivion. I didn't, but I did forget my phone in his garage so I didn't get any pictures of today's progress. Today I got comfy with the angle grinder and the wire wheel. Ive got most of the paint off the frame, along with several pounds of bondo.  Whoever painted it smoothed out the welds with bondo,  so now everything in my basement has a fine layer of bondo dust on it. It was also a lot of bending over and kneeling, so I picked up my pedestal grinder with a wire wheel and went to town on the swingarm. I got most of it, and will finish up with the angle grinder. I don't know what will be easier to remove paint with, the pedestal grinder or the angle grinder, so I bought a vise to bolt onto the pedestal so I can wire wheel it without bending over.

I need to find a good exploded view of the fork assembly so I can get that back together. Then I should find something to do with old gas. Maybe dilute it and dump it in my truck's tank. 
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MikeKato

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2013, 07:01:51 PM »
MJL

Sorry to hear about your dog. Bike is coming along nice!

GL!
Mike

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2013, 07:41:09 PM »
Thanks, Mike.


For those of you just tuning in, I'm in the middle of rebuilding a Santee frame chopper. I've pretty much got everything stripped down and ready for paint or reassembly, and for the past few days I've been stripping paint off the frame and fender. Here are some pictures.

Here's the rear fender. From a distance the rust blends in with the brown paint.


The other side, paint stripped off. For the fender I used an angle grinder with a wire wheel. Paint, bondo, everything comes right off.  Speaking of bondo, there was a bunch on the fender. I'm not sure why, but it looked like a corner was cut off and brazed back on, as were the brake light mounting tabs.


You can see the bench grinder on the floor, I used it on the swingarm. The spare tire base is great as it absorbs the vibrations from the wire wheel being out of balance. The vise is great because you can rotate the jaws around to put the pat at any angle you need.


Rear fender cleaned and primed.


Lots more parts primed for paint.


The frame is almost ready, there are some areas that still need stripped. I've been thinking, I want to use tapered roller bearings in the neck, and this neck tube won't allow that. I have a frame section with the neck from a 78 gl1000 that I want to cut the neck tube off to put on this. I'll grind off the vin and stamp the actual one on, the one that's on the title. I just have to be careful to weld the neck on straight.


My workbench. One florescent fixture hangs over, and to the right is where the grinder/vise is, with two florescent fixtures above to eliminate shadows. One of those was hanging over my washer and dryer.


I would have had more done, but my sister in law was in the hospital and my brother needed a babysitter.  Katelyn is a seven year old bundle of boundless energy. :D

I'll have more done tomorrow.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2013, 08:47:57 PM »
Ever do something and think "That was a bad idea"? Today was one of those.

I started by gathering parts and heading to my buddy's shop, since my welder extension cord is powering his shop addition. (Explanation at the end of the post.) Here is the frame section I have.


The neck tube looks big and beefy, which it sorta is, because it has a lot of layers wrapped around it.




Finally...


This is where people say "If I could do it over..."


Had I known better, had I remembered a little trick, I would not have cut the neck off. I thought those chrome pieces on the top and bottom were the bearing cups, or had the cups machined into them, but in fact the bearing cups are separate. I tried to pound them out with a punch, but they didn't budge, and there was no way to get behind the cups. The little trick I forgot about until it was too late was I should have run a weld bead around the bearing cup, let it cool, and it would have shrunk and come out. (Yes that really does work)

I considered leaving part of the tube welded in , figuring it was already straight and square, but then thought that it wouldn't look right for one, and for another it wasn't guaranteed that it was cut straight and even on each side. So, I cut and ground some more. If I could do it over, I would have left the piece of tube that was on the inside. It seems the backbone and the downtubes were welded, then the gussets. I could have kept it straight and out of sight. But I didn't, and here is how it looked.


Looking in the backbone, there is stuff in there?? I got it out and couldn't figure out what it was. Some kind of plant matter it looked like.


Now, going back a pic or two, you can see the tubes I welded on because of the kickstand bracket. I did that trying to figure out how best to ensure the neck would be straight. What I came up with I figured would be the easiest and most accurate I can do. I hope I was right.
    I cut off the front tube and set the rear tube on a jack so I could adjust it. I set the digital level at several places on the frame and shimmed it to get to zero degrees left to right. I then clamped the neck to the frame, set the level on, and adjusted the back up and down to get zero degrees.


Now, knowing that my frame is level side to side, and my neck is level front to back, I just check to make sure it is level side to side and presto, it's perfect! (These pictures were set up and taken after I finished with the setup and welding, which is why the level is off) One thing I can't be sure of is that the steering stop is centered.


Now that I've got a bunch of stuff painted flat black, including the swingarm, I decided that the frame and swingarm should be orange, with the engine, tank, fenders, and oil tank flat black. I think I might do some highlights here and there with the orange.

I just want to get this thing together and running, I'm getting antsy.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline 754

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2013, 10:06:31 PM »
 I would only level off  the motormount,or swingarm.
 I was hoping you were kidding about cutting the neck off a fairly desireable frame, but I guessed wrong. So now it will be registered as a Gl ?
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2013, 11:03:41 PM »
dude...please google frame jig
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2013, 08:04:18 AM »
I would only level off  the motormount,or swingarm.
 I was hoping you were kidding about cutting the neck off a fairly desireable frame, but I guessed wrong. So now it will be registered as a Gl ?

Trust me I didn't want to. I didn't know the bearing races were not part of those chrome pieces, I thought they were machined into them. I didn't want to put it all back together and find that the bearings were crap and it steered badly. It'll still be registered as a cb750. I'll stamp the vin onto this neck.

I don't have room for a frame jig, maybe later.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline 754

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
 I am not understanding how you could not get the races out.  That was an awful lot of work to make your frame worth half as much as it was. Dont get that impatient on your motor, because you will regret it.
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2013, 07:54:23 PM »
The races themselves had no way to be knocked out. The stock head tube has a seat for the bearings, and it is big enough to hold the bearing but small enough that one could get a punch on the edge of it to knock it out. The neck that was on the bike had a shoulder for the bearings to sit on that was too big to get a punch on, and did not have a cut away or notch for a punch.

I'll see if I can dig the parts out and take pictures.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline JimJamerino

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2013, 11:23:30 AM »
Would a blind hole bearing puller work?  If there's any kind of lip on the race inside the neck, a puller would be able to snag it, I think.

You can "rent" one from AutoZone for free.
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Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2013, 02:34:07 PM »
But that's it. There was no lip to hook a puller to, or to set a punch against.

Doesn't matter now.


Set the frame on my bench, and set the mockup motor in. :D  With the motor, oil tank, swingarm and fender, it looks more like a bike and makes me want to work on it more. I've got my new forktubes ready to go, and steering bearings have been ordered today. I hope they come in soon, as I have a one week shutdown at work coming up in a week and a half and I'd like to get cracking on this. I like the grey and black colors, so I think I'll go with that.

Also there seems to be some shift linkage missing, so I'll have to figure that out as well. I need to check and see if the shift shaft is indexed in the splines.



I've got some Buell parts ordered also, stuff I've been wanting to do for awhile now, so I might take a day for that.

I mentioned how my welder extension cord was powering my friends shop, here's what's going on. Rather than running a bunch of extension cords over to run the lights, I wired my cord to the top of the panel, which is plugged into the welder outlet in the old shop. The new supply cables are run, he just has to hang the new meter box and have the utility hook up to it.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 02:45:34 PM by MJL »
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2013, 02:31:32 PM »
Cross section of the chrome pieces I thought were the bearing cups.



If you look closely, you can see where the bearing cups are and the rest of it.  Also note that there is very little to nothing to set a punch against to push it out. With everything being chrome, it was difficult to tell that it was two pieces.



As I said, I learned a trick that I forgot until after I needed it that would have gotten those bearing cups out without having to cut anything.


Today I did nothing to the bike, I changed a glow plug and fuel filter in my Duramax, checked things at my lake house, and cooked a bunch of meals for the next three days.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2013, 07:57:38 PM »
Any new work on this?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline SoyBoySigh

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2015, 03:55:15 PM »
BUMP -

There's enormous potential in this build! To hell with "RESALE VALUE" that's not what this crap is ABOUT!!! What might seem like a "disaster" is more like a FIX if you ask me. You can see that these frames weren't that great in the first place. I think it's BRILLIANT to stick a different neck on it. And especially using a GL neck, 'cause now you're not gonna have to use Harley-to-Honda conversion bearings to put a DECENT fork on it! I'm picturing a GL1500 TRAC fork, 'cause that's what I'm planning to upgrade my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" with.

But above all else, how about changing the neck ANGLE on this frame? DE-RAKE it!!! Heck - cut the damn STRETCH out of the frame while you're at it!!!

There are some really interesting dragster frames out there, seen a CB750 hard-tail dragster frame recently and the one thing that could improve it IMHO would be to suck the neck right down close to the valve cover, steepen the steering stem, and run a short lil' fork with another 16" rim to match the rear. Maybe the rear hub could be a "sprung hub" type, to soak up any bumps on the highway? You'd effectively have a CB750 powered DAX mini-bike!!!

This is how people need to look at all of this aftermarket frame crap. People were using 'em in the first place to be CREATIVE - and there's nothing quite so formulaic as building a classic CHOPPER now, is there? Worse than a nut & bolt restoration, they're even MORE predictable. BLECH!

But tweak around with 'em? NOW you're talking?

Do ya'll know the little hard-tail drag frames I'm talking about? With the tank integral to the backbone tube? Yeah - I'd love to get my hands on one that's been "halved in resale value" by it's neck being chopped off! Most of the work would already be done! Ha-ha.

The one thing I'd say you should've done with this Santee frame before cutting it up, would be to WEIGH the bastard. IMHO you can't call anything a "go-fast part" if it's adding so much weight to the damn bike. Not unless it's a trade off to a direct performance gain.

And I dunno about 600-mile a day bikes with toilet-bowl height seats and ape-hanger bars. I've got serious back problems, and you wanna know what I did to get myself to a post-surgical appointment when it was too painful to sit in a car? Flipped the bars upside down on my '82 CB750F, put my feet on the passenger pegs, laid down flat on the tank, and whipped across the 250km trip in under an hour! Of course I get there, they start talking about a "miracle cure" ~ Miracle I made it there in one piece....

But yeah - screw the "laid back" ergonomics man, that stuff isn't appropriate if you've got a bad back. Gotta be the worst riding position I've ever tried.

Now if you wanna talk about a RECUMBENT on the other hand, I can wrap my head around THAT. Maybe one of these Tony Foale type of things with the engine behind the rider? Funny front end, steering via linkage bars? Tony Foale's "QL"  seemed to touch on the possibilities....

Anyway yeah - let's hear more about THIS build. There's some pretty interesting stuff could still come of this. I'd just hate to think that you got discouraged and gave up on the beast!

-S.

Offline Tews19

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2015, 05:36:31 PM »
^^^^^SMH
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Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2021, 06:45:08 PM »
BUMP -

There's enormous potential in this build! To hell with "RESALE VALUE" that's not what this crap is ABOUT!!! What might seem like a "disaster" is more like a FIX if you ask me. You can see that these frames weren't that great in the first place. I think it's BRILLIANT to stick a different neck on it. And especially using a GL neck, 'cause now you're not gonna have to use Harley-to-Honda conversion bearings to put a DECENT fork on it! I'm picturing a GL1500 TRAC fork, 'cause that's what I'm planning to upgrade my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" with.

But above all else, how about changing the neck ANGLE on this frame? DE-RAKE it!!! Heck - cut the damn STRETCH out of the frame while you're at it!!!

There are some really interesting dragster frames out there, seen a CB750 hard-tail dragster frame recently and the one thing that could improve it IMHO would be to suck the neck right down close to the valve cover, steepen the steering stem, and run a short lil' fork with another 16" rim to match the rear. Maybe the rear hub could be a "sprung hub" type, to soak up any bumps on the highway? You'd effectively have a CB750 powered DAX mini-bike!!!

This is how people need to look at all of this aftermarket frame crap. People were using 'em in the first place to be CREATIVE - and there's nothing quite so formulaic as building a classic CHOPPER now, is there? Worse than a nut & bolt restoration, they're even MORE predictable. BLECH!

But tweak around with 'em? NOW you're talking?

Do ya'll know the little hard-tail drag frames I'm talking about? With the tank integral to the backbone tube? Yeah - I'd love to get my hands on one that's been "halved in resale value" by it's neck being chopped off! Most of the work would already be done! Ha-ha.

The one thing I'd say you should've done with this Santee frame before cutting it up, would be to WEIGH the bastard. IMHO you can't call anything a "go-fast part" if it's adding so much weight to the damn bike. Not unless it's a trade off to a direct performance gain.

And I dunno about 600-mile a day bikes with toilet-bowl height seats and ape-hanger bars. I've got serious back problems, and you wanna know what I did to get myself to a post-surgical appointment when it was too painful to sit in a car? Flipped the bars upside down on my '82 CB750F, put my feet on the passenger pegs, laid down flat on the tank, and whipped across the 250km trip in under an hour! Of course I get there, they start talking about a "miracle cure" ~ Miracle I made it there in one piece....

But yeah - screw the "laid back" ergonomics man, that stuff isn't appropriate if you've got a bad back. Gotta be the worst riding position I've ever tried.

Now if you wanna talk about a RECUMBENT on the other hand, I can wrap my head around THAT. Maybe one of these Tony Foale type of things with the engine behind the rider? Funny front end, steering via linkage bars? Tony Foale's "QL"  seemed to touch on the possibilities....

Anyway yeah - let's hear more about THIS build. There's some pretty interesting stuff could still come of this. I'd just hate to think that you got discouraged and gave up on the beast!

-S.
The rake on this bike is not nearly as much as most choppers I've seen, which is partly why I like it.

Yes this is a zombie thread, but I've moved twice since my last post, had three kids, and am trying to get back to it now. I should have some updates and maybe some pics in a day or two.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline Don R

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2021, 09:22:06 PM »
 Soy Boy always had something interesting to say.  Sadly he passed away in Aug 2018 from complications causing a heart attack. There's an obit of sorts in the memorial thread.
 I hope to see more on your bike soon.
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Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2021, 03:35:40 PM »
Soy Boy always had something interesting to say.  Sadly he passed away in Aug 2018 from complications causing a heart attack. There's an obit of sorts in the memorial thread.
 I hope to see more on your bike soon.
Thats too bad. He seemed pretty vocal about modding a bike the way you like.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2021, 03:58:37 PM »
So I'm getting back to it after eight years. Ive got a mockup motor block in, rear fender, both wheels, and it looks like its beginning to take shape. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm still going to have to take everything apart, paint, and put it back together.

The original intent was to use as many parts as I already have, but considering that the master cylinder needs rebuilt, it may be in my best interest to buy a new one, among other things.

I didnt do much today, I tried to feed the wires for the handlebar controls through the bars, but the left side just didn't want to go. Maybe because it looks like there is rust inside? I have other handlebars,  so I'll find one thats clean inside. I also dug out some more parts, including the seats and an aluminum front rim. I have to work for the next three days so I hope to get more done Monday.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline Don R

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2021, 06:18:55 PM »
 I've been using a tug wire for push/pull and silicone spray on the wires. The hard sheath doesn't help either, a few pieces of shrink tube helped.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2021, 05:36:37 AM »
I've been using a tug wire for push/pull and silicone spray on the wires. The hard sheath doesn't help either, a few pieces of shrink tube helped.
I feed a 14 gauge wire through to pull the control wires, but this one keeps slipping out, so I'll have to figure out a way to really hold it.

No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2021, 05:46:23 AM »
I took the carbs to work over the weekend and cleaned them. The last time I did that, I put them in the media blaster and made them all nice and clean. However, I didnt want to do that again and get media stuck in the passages, so I went in the hot tank after I removed all the rubber and plastic bits. The carbs are now clean and back together, but I still need to set float heights.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2021, 05:35:14 PM »
Well I feel like an idiot. if you look closely at the picture above, you'll see that three of the carbs have been reassembled. The fourth one is missing important bits, like the main jet and the slow jet. It's not on my toolbox, and the workbenches and parts cleaner I was using have all been cleared off. I have no idea where they went. So, it looks like I'll be adding jets to my shopping list. What a bummer.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline Don R

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2021, 07:46:57 AM »
 There was a thread about a worm hole that opens and swallows important parts. I also have a rubber mat at my work bench that catapults parts into another dimension. Historically, these parts will re-appear soon after replacements have been procured.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline MJL

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Re: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2021, 10:18:17 AM »
There was a thread about a worm hole that opens and swallows important parts. I also have a rubber mat at my work bench that catapults parts into another dimension. Historically, these parts will re-appear soon after replacements have been procured.
Maybe at home, but I cleaned these carbs at work, and the shop has since been cleaned. Unless they are hiding on my toolbox, they are not likely to return.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.