Topic: low drop cafe bars

[zoom74cb]

Well i figured i am going to use clubman bars on my K4 build..But i have seen a few types..anyone know of any low drop clubmans that will fit the cb 750 ??  Or.....What is everyone  else using That is the most popular brand/type?

[736cc]

Clubmans should be angled like this



An alternative choice would be Norman Hyde 7/8" handlebars.



Routing cables and brake line properly is very important when going to a lower set of bars. Another  issue is getting the master cylinder to "sit" at a level position. The 1980's V45 Magna master cylinder sits perfectly w/ clubmans.

[Geeto67]

Bar selection depends a lot on foot peg position. Have you given any thought to that?

Spend the money, get a set of tomaselli condor bars or laverda jota bars. They are adjustable so once you realize you hve made a horrible mistake you aren't married to it and can adjust the bars to better suit your position.

[shinyribs]

I used Bikemaster Clubman's on my 750. Fit good.

And,I'm 6'2'' with 36'' inseam. With clubmans and stock location foot pegs i was completely happy. I experimented with some rear sets,but never liked them. To each their own. Just because you want to run a set of $25 clubmans,you are not forced to run some $300+ rear sets. Just putting it out there. BM's fit nicely.

[Geeto67]

To each their own. Just because you want to run a set of $25 clubmans,you are not forced to run some $300+ rear sets. Just putting it out there. BM's fit nicely.

This is bad advice. really it is, you just aren't saavy enough to realize it yet.

I can gaurantee you aren't doing your back any favors, but hey you'll find that out soon enough.

Everything on a bike is a system. a change in one thing affects a change in them all. The handle bars, seat, and foot pegs are all part of the same system because they are all connected by the rider. Ideally everything should be tailored to the rider's specific measurements but you can't really do this with off the shelf parts unless they are adjustable (like condor bars, jota bars, clipons, etc). I wish there were off the shelf adjustable rearsets like modern race bikes have but unfortunatly you have to make them yourself if you want a perfect fit.

 A good performance street motorcycle should be set up very similar to an endurance racing motorcycle - the best balance between sport riding and comfort (to minimize rider fatigue). If you are getting any kind of pain in your spine or wrist after any amount of riding then you are doing it wrong. You should also be able to reach all controls including the rear brake and gearshift with minimal effort and discomfort. The problem with having your pelvis in an upright position while your back curves forward as you dive for the bars is that it opens up your vertibrae in an unnatural way (picture bending a slinky back on itself - one side is splayed out, the other is compressed). A lot of guys will practially ride on top of their tanks to compensate for this (unknowingly pulling themselves into a position that makes the mid controls feel like rearsets) and then put too much weight on their wrists.

if you are going to do it, set the bike up right. Don't be lured in by cheap parts and cheaper thinking. Ever see a race bike without rearsets? I have and it was only when the class required it and the riders hated it.

if that isn't enough motivation, the look of clubmans and stock pegs just screams "i have no idea what I am doing and I shouldn't be allowed around tools".

[Rigid]

Seat height is the single most important issue.  The lower the seat, the higher and more natural the bars.  I have used clubmans to actually get bars low enough to be comfortable with very low seats.  That low seat bends your knees excessively, enter rear sets.......as mentioned above, it is a system.  Stock seat with clubmans and no rearsets is a painful experience for anyone over 20 years old. Bars sold as "euro clubmans" are a very low rise alternative.  I have used them a few times.  Still need low seat to be comfortable.

[Geeto67]

Completely agree - seat height is the focal point. While you can build adjustable rearsets, and buy adjustable bars, you don't really want a seat with much adjustment.

[shinyribs]

To each their own. Just because you want to run a set of $25 clubmans,you are not forced to run some $300+ rear sets. Just putting it out there. BM's fit nicely.

This is bad advice. really it is, you just aren't saavy enough to realize it yet.


if that isn't enough motivation, the look of clubmans and stock pegs just screams "i have no idea what I am doing and I shouldn't be allowed around tools".

Do you just despise anyone who's opinion differs from yours?

1- It's not bad advice. It's my opinion. Which I made clear.
2- After 10k miles with my setup I am indeed savvy enough to know what I'm talking about.
3- If you don't like the look,don't do it. But be a courteous enough individual to accept the fact that not everyone shares your exact same tastes in style.
4- And this is slightly off topic. But could you please just avoid me in the future? I really am doing my best to contain myself at this point. I don't know if you think I've wronged you in a past life or whatever,but I'm really sick of your attitude. Your attitude of: "YOU don't agree with ME which makes YOU WRONG and STUPID!!"

If you could do this I would greatly appreciate it. Of course,if I could be of assistance to you in anyway I'd be glad to help. Otherwise I have enough drama in my real life without adding interweb drama from you. Thank you and have a nice day.

[andrewk]

His argument is partly physics.  What you may find comfortable doesn't necessarily put you in the fullest control of the bike.

For most people, clubmans, stock seat, and mid controls is the "monkey f*cking a football" position.

Rider position is far more about geometry and far less about style.

[Rodger]

I am sorry, not here to bust ball or upset anyone but.  I have to agree with Geeto and yes everyone in entitled to theyr opinion weather it is right or wrong.  For me the worst is seeing full blown custom cafe bikes with tons of money and time spent building them to still use the factory pegs.  Weather its comfortable or not you are not in the best riding postion to take advantage of the better handling that you set out to achieve.  Once again this is just my view point and you may bash them as much as you like, my skin is thick! 

[Geeto67]

Do you just despise anyone who's opinion differs from yours?

1- It's not bad advice. It's my opinion. Which I made clear.
2- After 10k miles with my setup I am indeed savvy enough to know what I'm talking about.
3- If you don't like the look,don't do it. But be a courteous enough individual to accept the fact that not everyone shares your exact same tastes in style.
4- And this is slightly off topic. But could you please just avoid me in the future? I really am doing my best to contain myself at this point. I don't know if you think I've wronged you in a past life or whatever,but I'm really sick of your attitude. Your attitude of: "YOU don't agree with ME which makes YOU WRONG and STUPID!!"

If you could do this I would greatly appreciate it. Of course,if I could be of assistance to you in anyway I'd be glad to help. Otherwise I have enough drama in my real life without adding interweb drama from you. Thank you and have a nice day.

I don't despise anyone. If you feel that way that's your interpretation and your problem.

1. It is your opinion that you are offering as advice, and it IS bad advice to give some one. Just because it is opinion doesn't mean it doesn't have merit independent its dubious origin, it is the substance of what it is saying or the actions it leads to that give it merit. Telling someone it is ok to do something incorrectly that will eventually "to each their own" isn't something that should be encouraged, and is bad advice. In motorcycles there are sometimes a clear right way and a wrong way. What you are saying is it is ok to do it the wrong way because you personally haven't felt any ill effects yet, but sometimes there are things you can learn pretty quickly and sometimes there are things that take years and even decades to hurt you and you just have to take someone else's word for it.  If you don't believe me, go ask all those old timers who rode hardtails back in the day and ask them about their backs and why they limp.

2. Gee, I guess your 10K miles is totally equal to my hundreds of thousands, or the time I spent working for a race team, or all the old timers who have given me advice over the years. I can tell you there is plenty of stuff in motor cycles I am not saavy about at all, I get schooled all the time by those who have spent more time problem solving than I have. You know what, it is the nature of the beast - a friend of mine's father once said to me "by the time you get to know enough about motorcycling, your life is almost over and you will need another lifetime to use all of it building and riding. My point is this, saavy isn't how many miles you ride, it is how much time you spend problem solving and how well you take advice given to you by others and how you apply all of that. As to the subject of bike ergonomics your comments clearly give you away as not being saavy to this issue since you don't even have your own bike setup properly. It is ok to be wrong and make mistakes so long as they are new mistakes. If someone is telling you something is a mistake, maybe you should listen instead of taking things so personally, esp when that person has no vested interest in you, or your motorcycle.

3. I threw the look thing in at the end as a joke since all the cafe kids these days seem to care about is the look. If you couldn't see that as the humorous part of it then you really aren't saavy.

4. If you think I am targeting you personally, then maybe you should seek professional help. I have no idea who you are and honestly I rarely read who is commenting, just what they say. avoid you? I wasn't making any kind of effort toward you in the first place and I sure as hell am not going to start acknowledging you now. Maybe some of the things you say are just dubious? maybe you are actually giving bad advice to people and you just don't realize it. If one of the goals of this forum is to learn, sometimes part of that learning process is someone who has spent more time on this issue than you telling you you are wrong. Courtesy has nothing to do with it. In fact, I don't see how I am being discourteous by taking an interest in applying my knowledge and experience so you end up with a better bike and a better way of thinking with nothing coming back to me. you don't like what I say, nobody is forcing you to read it. If you think I am wrong and you have something more than just "personal" experience to back it up with I am all ears and willing to at the very least listen. Sometimes there is just a right and a wrong way to do things, we are all constrained by the laws of nature and physics afterall.   

[Geeto67]

A couple of years ago I saw Kevin Cameron speak at the NY motorcycle show. Someone asked him what he thought were the two most underdeveloped areas of motorcycling. His answer was aerodynamics and ergonomics. After the lecture I went up to him and had a lovely conversation about Why he thought this - after all we went from everything having the same position to a variety of positions for a variety of riding styles in the span of less than a decade. His point was that since then we have just been perfecting the same model and few have ventured to rethink the problem from the ground up. He cited the gurney gator as one of those bikes that really sought to tackle rider ergonomics and placement with out of the box thinking, and that you don't see too many examples like it.

One of the things I took away from the conversation is that the present day rider ergonomics model is really well known and there are just some things you don't see professionals in this field doing because they have been tested and the outcome wasn't favorable. Are there areas in whic rider ergonomics will defy normal convention? Sure. Are they going to come from something that was tested for decades and found to be the wrong way to do something by trial and error? Not likely.

[nccb]

I don't think shinyribs would have cared if you simply explained the geometry and physics of a racing setup and why that's important.  Unfortunately, the first thing you did was blast him about how ignorant you thought he was and then continue to berate him throughout your statement.  That would make anyone mad regardless of if they were right or wrong.

This is like going to a bar and watching one drunk talk #$%* to another and then when the other guy sticks up for himself acts like he did nothing wrong, well maybe a bit more exaggerated   Now, buy each other a round or two and if I see one person raise their bottle when the other guy turns his back. . .well, we'll see what happens.

[Geeto67]

If you don't tell someone they are giving bad advice, how are they going to know in the future? Sorry, I don't validate parking or bad ideas.

[andrewk]

Do we all need hugs around here?  I see nothing more than statements of fact.  Telling someone they are ignorant shouldn't be such a big deal.  Geeto didn't call him names, he told him why ergonomics are important, and how they work together.

There is a right and a wrong way to set up a bike, and advocating a riding position that offers less control than stock IS bad advice.

[nccb]

ok then. . .

[jaguar]

Personally to me seeing low bars and stock pegs is the first sign of someone that is "doing it wrong".  Sure some claim it works for them, maybe it does, or maybe they don't know what working feels like.

Really it's not always the "builders" fault.  Trouble is that most only develop a sense of community on the web.  I also blame the people towing the cafe bandwagon these days.  The CRTV, WM, DCC, and Dues glorify bikes that are no more then art projects. 

[jaguar]

This is like a lot of threads
-how do I make cheap junk pods work
-can I lower the bike to the weeds and still turn
-if I'm not racing I don't need fenders/braces right
-can I afford to loose that much performance by running replica firestones if I promise to keep it in town
-I know thy suck but the remote res shocks on eBay are so cool

ECT

At the end of the its your own bike.  Don't worry about saving a penny on every part.  Buy a bunch of bars and spend some time riding them back to back.  Try other people's bikes too.
The look should just come and not need to be the primary focus all the time

[Geeto67]

you don't even have to go that crazy.....I think it was cycle world or motorcyclists that used to publish charts that showed bar height, seat height, distance to pegs, etc...just look at what modern performance bikes are doing and copying them will get you in the ballpark or at least get you a good starting point. The problem with production bikes is they are a compromise trying to fit a range of riders more or less comfortably so you still may need to tailor to your specific dimensions. 

All the major manufacturers (Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Ducati) have specific R&D departments dealing with ergonomics (I don't think HD has one based solely on the riding position of the Iron 883, nightster, or any of the fashiony sportster models) and they will have invested tons of time and money into figuring out what works. Becareful copying ducati though, sometimes they go a little too far and put a full short race position on a road bike (case in point the 2006 Sport 1000 has a pretty hardcore riding position, the 2007 model has a more compromised position, but the two bikes look identical and the changes in bar height and foot peg position are marginally noticeable if you weren't looking at them).

Sometimes you have to spend money to get good parts. Parts with adjustability built in. everybody thinks they can do this on the cheap but really speed costs money and sometimes you have to streach it out over time to do it right if you can't afford all the parts at once. 

[shinyribs]

You are simply unbelievable . The amount of #$%* and hot air you will type just to prove your greatness. You really think you are so damn smart,don't you?!?! "Well...you might think you like your bars....but you really didn't''

DUDE! It's a thread about h a n d l e b a r s !!! NO BIG DEAL !!! I have way more important things to deal with in my real life. Why I'm still bothering with you is beyond me. I'm done.




Seriously,this forum does not have an ''Ignore posts by this user" feature? Bummer.

[xnoahx]

Everytime I see the word performance on here I have to laugh.  Unless youre stuck racing one of these old bikes, or are willing to put a whole lot of work into the bike you are going to have a bike that is 40 years old that goes, stops, and turns like a pig.  I have fun on my CB but after Ive been riding it for a while and I get on my Buell I realize what a pile of junk time and technology have made it.  Put whatever bars you want on your bike and put the pegs wherever you want them. Its your bike.  If someone else wants to have a say, they can buy the parts for you.

[Geeto67]

I really wish you were done. apparently you aren't. I suspect you'll check in at least one more time.

If I am so full of hot air - prove it. Offer up something based in fact, or science, or something other than "derp, it don't hurt me yet, derp". make a logical, researched, and valid argument justifying why your opinion is valid and not bad advice.

I am not proving any part of my "greatness" here. In fact I don't think I have put anything of myself into this thread other than to illustrate the point that a person never stops learning.

you are right, at the end of the day, ITS MOTRCYCLES - NO BIG DEAL. There are way more important things going on in the real world than this. But it is a distraction, and a nice distraction, and someone reading this might develop a new way of looking at things and learn something. Maybe not from anything you wrote, but still there are others in this thread making excellent points.

[Geeto67]

If someone else wants to have a say, they can buy the parts for you.

following this logic nobody should ever ask about anything, ever. There is a difference between a standing question and unsolicited information. If he asked about bars and we started talking about the weather in seattle I would say you have a point but remember, when the question is asked information flows and you don't always have control over the direction and volume.

[IndyFour]

Well i figured i am going to use clubman bars on my K4 build..But i have seen a few types..anyone know of any low drop clubmans that will fit the cb 750 ??  Or.....What is everyone  else using That is the most popular brand/type?

I finally settled upon the very common "Bikemaster" brand clubman bar that you find at just about any bike shop.  Granted, my ride is a 550, but the setup is basically the same on the triple.  They fit well and are dirt cheap at around $20.

I'm taller (6'2" ish) and have ape like arms and longer legs (36/37" sleeve and 34" inseam/leg).  My issue was that I felt like a giant on the 550 and wanted to get my knees lower....ended up getting rearsets.  That prompted me to get drag bars (also cheap...same brand), but there was always the issue with the brake MC fitting and having the brake handle at a comfortable angle.  I ultimately decided to chance it and try the clubman bars just as an experiment.  I have been thrilled with the riding position.  For me, I feel perfectly balanced on the bike now and can ride long distance without a problem with this setup.....btw, i'm not necessarily a spring chick at 39 y.o.

Of course, everyone's idea of comfort is different and your dimensions may be quite different than mine.  This has just been my experience with clubmans.

If you're not sure you want clubman bars, maybe do what I did and get one of these cheap Bikemaster ones and give it a try.  If it doesn't work out, you're not out much $$.

[CapeCafe]

I am a bit reluctant to even enter this thread, but I have at times felt the snobishness (is that a word?) of some of the people on this site when the question of taking a stock SOHC bike and make it somthing other than stock is broached.  Some of us look at these old Hondas as an "art project".  A well cared for and maintained stock 550 is worth maybe $3,000.  When compared to a well cared for and maintained mid 2000's sportbike of the same value, they aren't fast, they don't handle particularly well, they don't brake well, even with thousands additional invested.  What they are is different to each of us.  What we get out of them is different to each of us.  I'm lucky enough to have a few choices of rides in my shed, but other than my 916, none of them have the soul of my old 550.  I've cut, carved, polished and rebuilt my 550, and then did it all over again, just cause I can.  They are forgiving. They are inexpensive to experiment on. Some of us think the "fad" of turning a stock bike into our own vision of the bike is OK.  If you wanna but clubmans on a bike with stock pegs, by all means , please do if thats your vision.  That said, the advice and experience of many of the SOHC forum members has made me able to do all I have to my little Honda; for that I am very thankful.