Topic: CYCLEX DRAG BIKE.......INTO THE 8'S!!!

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Jay, not sure.I'll find out. Your name did come up! .He's racing a Nova street car these days....9.20's!! He still had the 750 engine until he sold it to another old school dragracer, just a couple years ago.He's going to look for some pics for us. Bill

[scottly]

On a Kaw 1-2-3 auto, the dogs on the input gears are ramped so it shifts under load for the 1-2 shift and there is a spring pushing against the shift fork forcing the fork to push out of first to second. On 3rd input , the gear is split (cut in half/ seperating the gear from the fork slider)) and there is a spring on the shaft  pushing against the slider gear which causes the gear to push away for the 2-3 shift.

Does ramped mean the opposite of back-cut? In other words, the trans under load is trying to jump out of first directly into second, instead of the false-neutral we are all so familiar with? And are the shifts initiated by foot? Sorry for my ignorance about this type of "auto"; just trying to learn something. 

[dragracer]

What POPS said is true, you get squirrelly, for any reason, back off.....you got money to spend and work to do!!! Bill

As long as they either pull the clutch in or shift past the auto gears they'll be fine back off the throttle. Periodic replacement of the shift fork will allow that tranny to live a long time. It is not as maintenance free like an undercut tranny. I have found that in the use of an electric over air shifter, using a Dyna shift counter and programming it internally for the proper kill/no kill  sequence and kill time is the way to go on an auto trans in the absence of a PS2 controller. I have MSD on my small tire Kaw and used relays connected to the air kill micro swith on the air over air system in conjunction with Dyna shift minder to control my 1-2-3 auto. My car tire bike has a Pro Series 2 to assist the 1-2-3 auto in it. Lots of ways to handle the non kill gears including the use of a toggle switch mounted on the handle bars.

[dragracer]

On a Kaw 1-2-3 auto, the dogs on the input gears are ramped so it shifts under load for the 1-2 shift and there is a spring pushing against the shift fork forcing the fork to push out of first to second. On 3rd input , the gear is split (cut in half/ seperating the gear from the fork slider)) and there is a spring on the shaft  pushing against the slider gear which causes the gear to push away for the 2-3 shift.

Does ramped mean the opposite of back-cut? In other words, the trans under load is trying to jump out of first directly into second, instead of the false-neutral we are all so familiar with? And are the shifts initiated by foot? Sorry for my ignorance about this type of "auto"; just trying to learn something. 

Will see if i can find some old gears and post pics. It'll help to understand the concept better.

In most case, the shift drum has been modified to put neutral on the bottom where first used to be. This allows for quicker shifting and eliminates the potential to hit the false neutral you mentioned. And yes, it is trying to push out of first to second although there is a back cut to keep it locked in under pressure. The gears are de-dogged and the slot elongated. Its back cut on one side of the slot, and ramped on the other so the dog slip out when the tranny is shifted. In the case of the Kaw, the 2-3 shift is not done by ramped gears but a split gear with a spring on one side against it trying to push it out of gear. Again, hard to explain, easier to see.

Most 1-2, 1-2-3 or full 5 speed autos are air shifted. A persons foot pushing against a shifter will never move as fast as an air ram inspite of what one poster on here has alluded to.  Auto shifting is somehow being mistaken for an auto transmission, they are not the same. You can electronically auto shift an undercut transmission as well as a non kill auto if the bike is equipped with an air shifter and an electrical device to sense rpm and then convert it to 12 volts to activate the electric over air solenoid versus pushing the air shifter button yourself when you see a preset rpm via the tach or shift light.  Dyna shift minders are often used to autoshift a bike or an MSD rpm activated module, both with adjustable rpm settings and 12 volt outputs.

[POPS 911]

FRANK: If I would put a SHIFTNOD on my netural drum foot shift set up with that shift RPM counter firing = would that be fast enough, without a bottle,air lines, air compressor and cylinder........  All the Powerglide 4 wheelers at my track use SHIFTNODS to fly down the 1320'.  How many times have you heard = forgot to air up, air line blow off in the lanes, solenoid hanging = double button, YOU SURE THE GAUGE READ 140LBS. and the best "WHO'S GOT A AIR BOTTLE "  In a ST/ET class a electric foot kill shifter would work fine , now TOP GAS  7.90- 8.20 spend all the money for every part that SCHNITZ sells, then a guy like CROW TEASLEY races you on a Orange old KZ WITH NO BOX, throttle stop, etc. him with a hand clutch and gets that win ticket = seen this many times.

POPS BK911

[dragracer]

Pops, not saying these things don't work. Long before we had all the fancy all in one boxes, the methods you described worked just fine and still do. However, we are in a totally different era now. Its my opinion that something fully electronic is more accurate, repeatable  and quicker than a human physically attempting to acheive the same goal. Its 2013 and i intend to use whatever means at my disposal to make racing easier for myself and my team. Its does come with a cost though!!!!

[Leino]

My opinion on all the fancy gadgets is... if rules allow them, use them.
In the class I race in, I'm not allowed to even use a shift kill but that's the way things are.

Really hoping to see this CycleX bike in the 8's.

[dusterdude]

Frank,i had klemme do a bottom neutral on my cbr tranny a few years ago and never got around to tryin it,im going to change it over later this year.question is,what happened to the original neutral position?is it still on the counter shaft and why wouldnt i have an issue with the shifter stopping in that neutral?thanks

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Wow! Just spent another wonderful hour chatting with Gary Pena!! Jay,he still calls his place "The Shop",just not open to public.Could tell he'd like to speak with you. So he called me about an hour ago.....to tell me he had found his old time slips!!He did run 9.03 @ 149.xx on motor,but found a pass 9.00 @ 150.xx the absolute best.
On spray(nitrous)he ran 8.46@ 153.84,8.68 @ 151.77 and  8.71 @ 154.37!!! So Kenny,you run anything on motor with an 8 as first # you got the RECORD!!!! At Ponoma,he was set up for nitrous,ignition backed off,but he was rt,that little thing would launch...1.28 60 ft on motor.Later on nitrous,one of the runs above,60ft...0.912!!!!!! WOW! Going to send me some pics,was featured in HOTBIKE magazine.Asked about breakage......after Byron.......what breakage? Wanted to know how RC Sr. was doing etc. He's 75 and still building and racing cars...9.20 Street Nova,just sold a 8.40 Mustang and talked about doing a bike!!
He did say Bill Hahn had passed recently? Can't think of him without thinking turbo and performance!
He's ...checking on some stuff for me More later!Lot of fun we had,gotta email him link to forum!! 8)Bill

[Sam Green Racing]

Sounds like you had a good chat Billy, try your best to get him on board, this is where it is all happening.

Sam.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Sam,will do.I did ask about clutch,stock clutch metal and friction plates,H/D springs( Mike Rieck's and my favorite set up),Byron worked on it,bet it had this mod!

He did say Byron made him an automatic trans.More later.
We were talking about stock basket,very strong,but there was mods.
Gotta remember,I'm trying to listen and let him do most of the talking!(Hard for me!!)
I think I can persuade him to come on! Bill

[Big Jay]

I do remember hearing that Byron had put Kawasaki guides in the head so he could run really big valves.

[BLUE71TURBO]

Wow! Just spent another wonderful hour chatting with Gary Pena!! Jay,he still calls his place "The Shop",just not open to public.Could tell he'd like to speak with you. So he called me about an hour ago.....to tell me he had found his old time slips!!He did run 9.03 @ 149.xx on motor,but found a pass 9.00 @ 150.xx the absolute best.
On spray(nitrous)he ran 8.46@ 153.84,8.68 @ 151.77 and  8.71 @ 154.37!!! So Kenny,you run anything on motor with an 8 as first # you got the RECORD!!!! At Ponoma,he was set up for nitrous,ignition backed off,but he was rt,that little thing would launch...1.28 60 ft on motor.Later on nitrous,one of the runs above,60ft...0.912!!!!!! WOW! Going to send me some pics,was featured in HOTBIKE magazine.Asked about breakage......after Byron.......what breakage? Wanted to know how RC Sr. was doing etc. He's 75 and still building and racing cars...9.20 Street Nova,just sold a 8.40 Mustang and talked about doing a bike!!
He did say Bill Hahn had passed recently? Can't think of him without thinking turbo and performance!
He's ...checking on some stuff for me More later!Lot of fun we had,gotta email him link to forum!! 8)Bill

                        I remember Gary Pena from way back in the late 70's- early 80's.  He was from southern Calif.  Bill, next time you talk to him, ask him about Nitrous Gary, Captain Nemo, Blower Jeff or Storman Norman.  These old local guy's had all the fast street bikes back in the day's.  I learned a lot from all of them, even some bad habits too !       

[dragracer]

We NEED this guy!! Hopefully you can use your powers of persuation to get him to join. If he shares even a tiny bit of his experience with us, I would be grateful.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

No news from Gary Pena, but did speak with Kenny a few minutes ago.He's shooting for debut @  Indy Cup race in August! He's getting some ti valves made, Will @ Kibblewhite, and Kevin Electron supplier/owner has shipped special 40 mm ones! Made him aware of Gary's times.That's about it for now.Bill

[Sam Green Racing]

It's gonna be an expensive motor. 

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Sam,going to be? HaHa,already past that stage! Going to be MORE expensive!! Bill

[dragracer]

Titanium valves. Hmm, $100 each at Kenny's price($800). A set of Lectrons, $750-850 if modified. The head work, $2000-2500 maybe??? Mikes Billet block $$$? Custom pistons $700. 1-2-3 auto, $800-1000. No clue on the crank and rods??

Yeah, he's on a mission.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Crank and Carrillo rods at retail ~ $1200. I have ~ $7K in mine without the CR's and his is a notch or 3 above with his one-off stuff.

What/where/when in August? I'm hoping to put a ride together in the Appalachians, etc and could include that. What else is going on back east in August? May have to take 3 weeks.

[Sam Green Racing]

August 16 to 18 Jerry. 

http://www.manufacturerscup.info/?cat=37

Sam.

[POPS 911]

Got a rider = 135 in leathers, rode street bike 206mph in 1320', lives about 18 miles from my home, not under contract, will ride for money............. with all that big money in the motor being the best then the rider has to be the same high performance. Any NHRA PRO-STOCK racers ever ran 206 on a no-bar bike ?

POPS BK911

[MRieck]

Got a rider = 135 in leathers, rode street bike 206mph in 1320', lives about 18 miles from my home, not under contract, will ride for money............. with all that big money in the motor being the best then the rider has to be the same high performance. Any NHRA PRO-STOCK racers ever ran 206 on a no-bar bike ?

POPS BK911

Do you know Rick Stetson?

[POPS 911]

Watch him and Gary Clark win many rounds in their class while we [ MSP ] were beating Paul Gast for the Pro-Stock Class CHAMPIONSHIP at Scooters PRO-STAR AMA. He built fine motors that were the fastest , fact Gary CLARK  wore boots that the horse folks wear [  lace up dark brown w/ fringe on the bottom tongue= RIGHT?  ] I forgot the BRAND NAME ................. Do you know PIZZA JOHN, HEAVYHITTER NY JOE, STEVE DRAKE, SHINE how about the current NHRA PRO-STOCK #1  EDDIE KRAWIC, I was with him at his first NHRA on his BUSA BIKE AT COLUMBUS and Gainesville you know starting ,pushing up and back, and doing those clutches,  as I can go on and on been on the road alot over the pass 20 plus year.

POPS BK911

[Big Jay]

Proobably the best no bar bike rider currently involved in NHRA pro Stock would be Angie Smith (McBride)

[POPS 911]

Angie on a long bike= no bar outlaw bike at MIROCK event that her and her husband were the best, get the scale I think she might weight more than 135 in leathers ................ the only reason my riders cannot get in PRO-STOCK NHRA $$$$$$$$$$$$ and in the know - lets have a IROC PRO-STOCK RACE CLASS [ all the same bikes ] and give my younster and oldster a shot at a SUNDAY TV WIN. Or let all the PRO-STOCK RACERS ride Ronnie Mitchells TURBO BUSA no-bar bike faster than 206 MPH. I'll pay to see that anyday, CHIP ELLIS no problem. To tell the truth I do not think SHINE ever went over 200 MPH on the 1320'.

POPS BK911