Topic: Battery Drain 0.5 sec Pulse 07.5 mV to 1.6V (400F)

[supersport_CB400F]

My battery is draining with the key out at a 0.5 sec pulse, what could cause this?, coils are disconnected and so is the ignition plate it’s ticking like a bomb on my meter beep, beep, beep  , I cant find anything else that has things that charge and discharge which is what it seems like the problem is or is it .

Cheers

[TwoTired]

If I understand your post, you have a pulsing 7.5mv drop in voltage at a 0.5 sec rate?
Is this while engine running or static?  What RPM?  What Vreg are you using?
What happens when you temporarily disconnect your turn signal flasher?

Cheers,

[supersport_CB400F]

If I understand your post, you have a pulsing 7.5mv drop in voltage at a 0.5 sec rate?
Is this while engine running or static?  What RPM?  What Vreg are you using?
What happens when you temporarily disconnect your turn signal flasher?

Cheers,

No TT, with the key out so the circuit should be closed but the battery is draining I’m not sure what the amp pull is but it’s low or the leads on my meter would melt they’re much thinner than the loom wires (it has no Amp measurement on it) and the meter is in series with the +ve battery lead to the battery post, the voltage changes between the two values and makes the meter beep about twice a second.. This is strange I can only think I have a short in a part that charges then discharges because the beep is constant? But what else on the bike can have this; I took the flasher out of the circuit still beeps and same values on the meter. do you have any Idea's?

Cheers

[TwoTired]

What meter are you using?

FYI Volt meters are wired in parrallel, not in series.
Ammeters have a shunt inside to carry current (within their rated capacity).  Asking the voltmeter to carry current will depend highly on the design of the voltmeter.

Your display indication may be a function of either the sampling rate performed by the instrument's analog to digital converter, and/or the update cycle being made to the display output.  These vary with instrument quality and faster conversions or updates imply higher cost of the internal bits.

With the key out, most of the bike is open circuit.  What IS still connected it the charging system Rectifier and beyond that the Alternator stator.

Perhaps if you state the problem you are trying to solve, and better test approach can be devised?

Cheers,

[Bodi]

Confused about what you're measuring. What I think you describe is disconnecting the battery lead and measuring voltage between the battery and the (disconnected) cable with the key OFF. Is this right? The meter would allow very very little current to pass this way, so the size of wire is unimportant. There should be no intermittent load though, no load at all in fact but there could easily be enough leakage that a digital volt meter would read a non-zero voltage.
If you have an electronic 3-wire flasher fitted it would be a source for the intermittent load, although properly wired it would have no connection to the battery with the ignition off and/or the turn switch at centre.

[supersport_CB400F]

What meter are you using?

FYI Volt meters are wired in parrallel, not in series.
Ammeters have a shunt inside to carry current (within their rated capacity).  Asking the voltmeter to carry current will depend highly on the design of the voltmeter.

Your display indication may be a function of either the sampling rate performed by the instrument's analog to digital converter, and/or the update cycle being made to the display output.  These vary with instrument quality and faster conversions or updates imply higher cost of the internal bits.

With the key out, most of the bike is open circuit.  What IS still connected it the charging system Rectifier and beyond that the Alternator stator.

Perhaps if you state the problem you are trying to solve, and better test approach can be devised?

Cheers,

TT nothing has not now been disconnected, but the meter still shows the small up and down change in values and the beeps….. and small amps are being drawn I would suppose because the new battery runs down, the bikes not finished yet, the meter can’t measure those Amp’s just Ohm’s,  AC, DC, and Diodes. I have the meter connected in series I thought with the loom and battery, not parallel and that’s how I can see the loss from the battery with the key out and closed circuit? Strange stuff!

Meter is Beckman Industrial DM78

[supersport_CB400F]

Confused about what you're measuring. What I think you describe is disconnecting the battery lead and measuring voltage between the battery and the (disconnected) cable with the key OFF. Is this right? The meter would allow very very little current to pass this way, so the size of wire is unimportant. There should be no intermittent load though, no load at all in fact but there could easily be enough leakage that a digital volt meter would read a non-zero voltage.
If you have an electronic 3-wire flasher fitted it would be a source for the intermittent load, although properly wired it would have no connection to the battery with the ignition off and/or the turn switch at centre.

I've not got an electronic flasher it's a mechanical one, but I do have a drain from some place but it’s only small, I’ll measure on Monday when I can get a better meter.

[TwoTired]

One last try at communication.  And, then I'll give up.  Sorry if this is too blunt.  No offense intended.

You are using the meter wrong and it is trying tell you so with the beeping and flashing nonsense.

ONLY parrallel votlmeter connections will give valid indications.

I still don't know what problem you are trying to solve.  But, your approach to discovery is certainly wrong.

Best of luck with your quest!

[Ibsen]

It doesn't matter that much at what rate the battery is drained. Your problem seems to be that it is drained, and that should not happen with the igniton key out of the lock, unless there is a fault in the reg/rec or stator, or you have hooked up something on the wrong side of the ignition switch that still is using power with the ignition off . Try to unhook the reg/rec first and see if that makes a difference. If not, unhook the electronic flasher relay.

[supersport_CB400F]

It doesn't matter that much at what rate the battery is drained. Your problem seems to be that it is drained, and that should not happen with the igniton key out of the lock, unless there is a fault in the reg/rec or stator, or you have hooked up something on the wrong side of the ignition switch that still is using power with the ignition off . Try to unhook the reg/rec first and see if that makes a difference. If not, unhook the electronic flasher relay.

I'm giving up for today I'll find the problem......

[supersport_CB400F]

One last try at communication.  And, then I'll give up.  Sorry if this is too blunt.  No offense intended.

You are using the meter wrong and it is trying tell you so with the beeping and flashing nonsense.

ONLY parrallel votlmeter connections will give valid indications.

I still don't know what problem you are trying to solve.  But, your approach to discovery is certainly wrong.

Best of luck with your quest!

My new battery is draining while the ignition is off and the key is out with a pulse of small volts and current I can’t work out why I get a pulse drain or why the electrical system is doing this. I have tried the same measurement with my car battery connected to the bike and get the same flow with the ignition off and key out, two things I know for sure is my battery will go flat  and my battery is leaking 1.6V and x  Amp’s  about twice a sec, but I’m going to find out why.
Tried the meter with a bulb between the battery and the meter (like I’m connected to the bike) and got a steady reading (battery was off the bike made a loop of meter and bulb no beeps) so I’m still looking for a leak of power from the battery to something unknown yet that I cant find.
I am using the meter in a way that gives me the correct readings it beeps if the voltage changes while a measurement is on the screen and shows the new one.... no beeps with the bulb in the loop.

[TwoTired]

Try these tests.
Disconnect your battery from the bike.
Measure the resistance between the battery cables.  Use both polarities.

Disconnect your rectifier.
Again Measure the resistance between the battery cables.  Use both polarities.

Report back these 4 readings.

I'm guessing the pulsing you are oberving is an artifact of the meter's designed operation.

Reconnect only the negative terminal to your battery.  Wire a 12V light bulb in series with battery and the battery plus terminal.  Does it light? Does it pulse?
Voltmeter set to DC, black probe on neg. battery terminal, measure the voltage at battery pos. terminal and on the other side of the inserted bulb connection.

Report these two voltage readings.

Do you know the rate of battery discharge?  If you start with a full charge battery @ 12.6V, how long before significant loss, and what is the voltage reading at that point?

Cheers,

[Tim2005]

Just a couple of further thoughts; firstly as you say with the key out the circuit should be closed- but as there's a fault somewhere that's draining the battery I'd want to prove it is closed-first pull the multiplug off the bottom of the keyswitch, then retest, then pull the multiplug of the recitifer and retest, maybe one of the diodes in there is going & it's open through that.

(by the way, I think Lloyd's onto something about the pulsing, most multimeters don't poll the reading too often either)

Oh, one other thing, you haven't got an alarm fitted, have you...?

[TwoTired]

firstly as you say with the key out the circuit should be closed

If we are going to use electrical vernacular, you should know that a switch in the off position (key removed) opens the circuit so that no electricity can flow through it.

A closed circuit DOES allow electrical current flow and would be the "ON" position of a switch.

These basic terms are critical in relaying information about electrical circuits.  And, common useage will allay confusion.

Cheers,

[Duck]

you are not using the meter properly.
RTFM

[supersport_CB400F]

Try these tests.
Disconnect your battery from the bike.
Measure the resistance between the battery cables.  Use both polarities.

Disconnect your rectifier.
Again Measure the resistance between the battery cables.  Use both polarities.

Report back these 4 readings.

I'm guessing the pulsing you are oberving is an artifact of the meter's designed operation.

Reconnect only the negative terminal to your battery.  Wire a 12V light bulb in series with battery and the battery plus terminal.  Does it light? Does it pulse?
Voltmeter set to DC, black probe on neg. battery terminal, measure the voltage at battery pos. terminal and on the other side of the inserted bulb connection.

Report these two voltage readings.

Do you know the rate of battery discharge?  If you start with a full charge battery @ 12.6V, how long before significant loss, and what is the voltage reading at that point?

Cheers,

No alarm fitted

10 m Ω both directions with the rectifier out
10 m  Ω and 12 m Ω with the +ve meter lead on the –ve battery lead with the rectifier
in

Battery is on charge again I’ll get the other readings once it’s full charge and drains again, it takes about 2 day’s once fitted on the bike, battery is new.

I tried a 12v bulb in series with the +ve battery lead yesterday it never came on that’s why I put the meter in series. I’ll put the meter and the bulb in series when the battery is back in the bike and see if the bulb can stop the 1.6 v pulse.

Update

I’ve now got a Batt reading 12.89 v I connected it to the bike with just the earth lead I measured the current in the bulbs with a 0 to 1A mechanical meter and got a reading of 0.4A I connected them between the +ve battery post and the +ve lead and they never came on so I put my DMM in series with the bulbs and got 11.xx v reading I then added the mech amp meter in series the needle never moved so it  must be a small amount of current being drawn ….the ignition is off and all the fuses are out.

[scondon]

 I will not pretend that I understand any of what you guys are talking about. I did however have a drain, with key off, that would deplete the battery if the bike sat for over a week and a half. Turned out to be a bad rectifier. This was discovered at my friends shop by measuring the amount of drain then plugging in a new rectifier and measuring again to see that the drain had diminished to almost nothing. I didn't experience any other problems with the bad rectifier, just the drain.

[TwoTired]

10 m  ? and 12 m ? with the +ve meter lead on the –ve battery lead with the rectifier
in

The rectifier has diodes.  Use the meter's diode test function to measure with the rectifier installed.

I tried a 12v bulb in series with the +ve battery lead yesterday it never came on that’s why I put the meter in series.

A light bulb (or and Amp meter) has current carrying abilities.  A voltmeter does not.  If it did, it would modify circuit readings under test conditions and lie about what was measured.

Your voltmeter in series tests are meaningless.

I’ve now got a Batt reading 12.89 v I connected it to the bike with just the earth lead I measured the current in the bulbs with a 0 to 1A mechanical meter and got a reading of 0.4A

If you have an ammeter, you don't need any test bulbs.  Assuming your ammeter doesn't require an external shunt, just insert the ammeter in series between the battery terminal and the battery cable and note the meter deflection reading.  Start disconnecting things on the bike until the meter falls to zero, and you've located your current drain path.  Follow that path to where the power is being used.

If you can find a 12 ohm 20 watt resistor, or a 6 Ohm 30 watt resistor.  You can insert that in series with your drain load, and measure the voltage drop across it.  You can then calculate the current flow using ohms law. I = E/R  Where E is the voltage measured or lost through a known resistance.  Don't hit your starter button or place other large load demands through the test resistor.  It will get hot.

[supersport_CB400F]

Checked the diodes in the rectifier they all measured around 500 from the R\W wire and the G wire.
I’ve got a decent Amp meter in work I’m going to try that and get a measurement of the leak with that, it’s only small leak mA I think  but it’s flattening the battery in about two days.
.

[TwoTired]

Checked the diodes in the rectifier they all measured around 500 from the R\W wire and the G wire.

You have to check the rectifier with both polarities of the meter probes, and with the meter set to diode check mode.
It should only conduct with one polarity.

[supersport_CB400F]

I went across all 3 terminals with the meter and got .500’s  V’s and beep then reversed the meter leads and got 1.4’s V’s and no beeps from the meter the battery in the meter is 1.5 V so I can only think the rectifier is fine. I may have measured wrong but looking at the Haynes diagram it only has 6 diodes, have I tested the thing wrongly? I’m well stuck on this one. I’m going to measure the A loss from the battery (small less than 1A) Im convinced something is charging and discharging or heating up and cooling down but I’m probably wrong….I wont be beaten by this thing.
Thanks for your input it helps with outside suggestions....... I hate electrics!

[TwoTired]

The rectifier plug has six positions and 5 terminals. Green, Red/Wht, and 3 yellows.  Which 3 terminals did you check?
12 measurements are required to check all six diodes.  Both polarities of the meter leads on each of the six diodes.  There is a diode from each yellow to green, and another diode from each yellow to Red/Wht.

Resistance is denoted by the term ohms or R.  Voltage is denoted by V or E (for electromotive force).  Current is specified in amps or "I".

[supersport_CB400F]

Sorry TT I should of stated the test was done from both the R\W wire and G wire; I got the same sort of numbers from both measurements 6 each side.

[MRieck]

You're more patient then me TwoTired.

[oldbiker]

Bifta, where are you located? Maybe there is another member close who could help out. I am in Coventry in the UK.