Topic: 1972 cb500 - Charging system issue

[rb550four]

Was new clutch plates installed? Were they oiled first?
Case seal Actually set correctly? Did PO break down the cases? Flywheel puller find out, that's allot of oil.

[zenocchio]

Pics

[zenocchio]

Was new clutch plates installed? Were they oiled first?
Case seal Actually set correctly? Did PO break down the cases? Flywheel puller find out, that's allot of oil.

Unfortunately I don't have any info on the transmission, where should I start? I first thought I had to set the clutch cable as when I was trying to put in first gear with the lever pulled all the way the engine would die.

[zenocchio]

I realized that the shifter rod is supposed to be all in one piece, (part 22850-323-000) so mine is definitely broken in two.
I guess that if the rod isnt long enough it will not engage/disengage the clutch.
Is that a correct observation? might that be the cause of my stuck clutch?
I will also try to rock the bike and see if that will help to free the discs.

[rb550four]

There is some information about replacement rod as this seems to be a common issue. I forgot where that info is but it's on this site, you may have to search it on this site, or maybe someone can chime in. It's all in the finding.
   I'd say let's take a look at the condition of that clutch and separate the discs and give them a nice oil bath , you can look things over while you 're in that side of the case just to be sure things are kosher.
   Oh, drain the oil first, the floor wont be spotless but better than 3+ quarts on the floor if ya didn't.
Don't panic, there's lot of help here. You do have a manual right? If you don't please get one. Then we can help.

[zenocchio]

There is some information about replacement rod as this seems to be a common issue. I forgot where that info is but it's on this site, you may have to search it on this site, or maybe someone can chime in. It's all in the finding.
   I'd say let's take a look at the condition of that clutch and separate the discs and give them a nice oil bath , you can look things over while you 're in that side of the case just to be sure things are kosher.
   Oh, drain the oil first, the floor wont be spotless but better than 3+ quarts on the floor if ya didn't.
Don't panic, there's lot of help here. You do have a manual right? If you don't please get one. Then we can help.

  Thanks!
I have seen few posts about the rod, I just got a replacement off eBay off a cb400 but apparently is the same length. Lets see when I get it. I have few manuals that I got off the Internet and a copy of the book "service repair and performance". They are useful but not always complete. 

[zenocchio]

some progress,
the clutch push rod still hasn't showed up, in the mean while I took a look at the clutch plates, most of them were sticked together, so I assume that that was my problem.
the oil that I drained was spotless, like new. is there any recommended oil that I should use to fill up? how many quarts do I have to add?
I took a close look to the front brake, i bleed the system as the brake wasn't working and the lever was spongy.
It took a while to unstuck the caliper, I can brake now but it is very hard. the pad gets stuck and it started leaking from the hand lever.
I guess the next step will be a complete overhaul, any suggestion on the kit I should get?
what could I do for the sticky pads?
any suggestion on how to put together the kickstart? it has a spring that supposedly should make the lever go closer to the engine. I havent figured out yet how to.
I like the long seats, and the option to take a passenger with me, so I cut the seat pan and I have the battery going through, I will build a box to cover it.

[hondamatteo]

Nice progress so far! You will want to use a K&L master cylinder rebuild kit as they are oem. I have used a cheapo one before and it started leaking again within a year. Not worth it. The calliper piston will probably have to be removed and the calliper cleaned. Gunk in behind will cause it to stick. Replace the seal that is there too if its in bad shape. Also check your piston for pitting as that can chew up a new seal. I don't think that kick starter returns on its own, that spring just helps hold it in place I believe

[zenocchio]

Nice progress so far! You will want to use a K&L master cylinder rebuild kit as they are oem. I have used a cheapo one before and it started leaking again within a year. Not worth it. The calliper piston will probably have to be removed and the calliper cleaned. Gunk in behind will cause it to stick. Replace the seal that is there too if its in bad shape. Also check your piston for pitting as that can chew up a new seal. I don't think that kick starter returns on its own, that spring just helps hold it in place I believe

Thanks Matteo,
I ordered a master cylinder kit on ebay, and few bit from Carter here in vancouver.

next thing to tackle will be the seat, I will try to work with the existing foam and reshaping it.

[iron_worker]

You should also have a look at your clutch actuator mechanism. My cousin has a 500 as well and his was also broken. His pushrod was in 1 piece but the actuator on the opposite of the bike was broken.

Looks just like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLUTCH-ACTUATOR-ARM-1980-HONDA-CB750K-/380371008552?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588fe0fc28&vxp=mtr

There is a male and female piece. The female piece is attached to the cover and the male piece rides inside and as the cable pulls the arm the thread translates this rotation into a push on the pushrod. On my cousin's bike the female piece was cracked and allowing the male piece to extend out at an angle and jam up.

So have a good look at that mechanism to ensure it's working as it should.

IW

[zenocchio]

You should also have a look at your clutch actuator mechanism. My cousin has a 500 as well and his was also broken. His pushrod was in 1 piece but the actuator on the opposite of the bike was broken.

Looks just like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLUTCH-ACTUATOR-ARM-1980-HONDA-CB750K-/380371008552?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588fe0fc28&vxp=mtr

There is a male and female piece. The female piece is attached to the cover and the male piece rides inside and as the cable pulls the arm the thread translates this rotation into a push on the pushrod. On my cousin's bike the female piece was cracked and allowing the male piece to extend out at an angle and jam up.

So have a good look at that mechanism to ensure it's working as it should.

IW

I found the actuator broken as you suggested. The broken piece doesn't interfere with the system and it doesn't make the male part cricked. I will keep an eye on it but for now I will not change it.

[rb550four]

   There is a few threads on brake cylinder repair here, The greasegun method is the most sure fire and easiest way to get the piston out, if you didn't know.
   When you take the clutch  apart separate all the discs and soak them in oil overnight, you can use the same  type of oil that you will be using in the pan.
     Be sure that the ball bearing ( that when dry usually escapes) is in the actuator (can't get your pics up, different format...) and that it's well greased during reassembly.
     I remember many years ago, that an electric carving knife was the tool to use on the foam (seat) , can be found at 2nd hand stores usually. If going the grinder method with course paper disc, use mask and have a shop vac handy, that stuff gets everywhere.
      Have fun.

[iron_worker]

You should also have a look at your clutch actuator mechanism. My cousin has a 500 as well and his was also broken. His pushrod was in 1 piece but the actuator on the opposite of the bike was broken.

Looks just like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLUTCH-ACTUATOR-ARM-1980-HONDA-CB750K-/380371008552?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588fe0fc28&vxp=mtr

There is a male and female piece. The female piece is attached to the cover and the male piece rides inside and as the cable pulls the arm the thread translates this rotation into a push on the pushrod. On my cousin's bike the female piece was cracked and allowing the male piece to extend out at an angle and jam up.

So have a good look at that mechanism to ensure it's working as it should.

IW

I found the actuator broken as you suggested. The broken piece doesn't interfere with the system and it doesn't make the male part cricked. I will keep an eye on it but for now I will not change it.

Once you get it all together you may find that your clutch doesn't disengage all the way. I would presume that the cracked housing is your problem... but no a big job to pull that one cover and replace it if necessary.

IW

[zenocchio]

This is the front caliper, the surface is pretty smooth but shows oxidization. Will it work fine?

[zenocchio]

I'm having trouble with the pics

[zenocchio]

I had troubles with the electric wiring today. I have not started the bike since the first time and today I blew few fuses. I tried to look for the short circuit and found the black wire coming from the ignition switch melted. The black wires from the stater solenoid to the ignition is hot too, any suggestion on what could have caused the problem?

[rb550four]

Holy crap, Spaghetti !
  There could be all kinds of #$%* wrong with that set up. I'm seeing pieces that  are normally isolated, that are not.
 Seeing allot of splicing, are all your splices leaded and good, did you shrink tape them and are they going to the right  places? The right places would be key.
  Are your grounds good? do you have grounds?
 
Find all effected  wires trace them to both ends,see if the connection to it is  correct and repaired, run the line with ohm meter check for over all continuity then check the same wires for shorts...

  A wiring harness takes up no space, doesn't weigh much, and can be left intact for the re positioning various components simply by extending a wire using the provided factory plugs. And is always the first thing to be massacred when the obvious has been overlooked.

So recheck your wiring plan , redraw and doublecheck what goes where so there is no question about that ,and you don't get confused from back tracking on stock wiring diagrams . It would then be left to the quality of the workmanship and the condition of parts.
 
You will either find the problem  or you won't- you will either use this wiring harness or you won't- you will have the patience and knowledge to repair this harness or you won,t.  If you think you won,t , save yourself the irritation get another harness ,don't cut it ,extend it to reach the re positioned components,
insure that it works first, then alter if you must.

[zenocchio]

Holy crap, Spaghetti !
  There could be all kinds of #$%* wrong with that set up. I'm seeing pieces that  are normally isolated, that are not.
 Seeing allot of splicing, are all your splices leaded and good, did you shrink tape them and are they going to the right  places? The right places would be key.
  Are your grounds good? do you have grounds?
 
Find all effected  wires trace them to both ends,see if the connection to it is  correct and repaired, run the line with ohm meter check for over all continuity then check the same wires for shorts...

  A wiring harness takes up no space, doesn't weigh much, and can be left intact for the re positioning various components simply by extending a wire using the provided factory plugs. And is always the first thing to be massacred when the obvious has been overlooked.

So recheck your wiring plan , redraw and doublecheck what goes where so there is no question about that ,and you don't get confused from back tracking on stock wiring diagrams . It would then be left to the quality of the workmanship and the condition of parts.
 
You will either find the problem  or you won't- you will either use this wiring harness or you won't- you will have the patience and knowledge to repair this harness or you won,t.  If you think you won,t , save yourself the irritation get another harness ,don't cut it ,extend it to reach the re positioned components,
insure that it works first, then alter if you must.

Thanks mate!
It was working alright the first time I turn the bike on. Since then I added brake sensors and turn signals. I will disconnect these and check if the wire is faulty still. It could be also the wiring madness in the headlight, ill maker sure that all the contact are clear.

You are saying that some of the electronics should be isolated. Which one are you referring to?

[rb550four]

Usually regulator, On the 500/550 the entire electric panel has been isolated from the frame. Any of these items mounted in isolating rubber mounts with metal tube in the rubber that extends and separates the washer and mounting bolt from  from the electrical unit , usually  fastened by 6,mm thread , 10mm head bolts.
 I am also under the belief that blinker relay and solenoid are also hung / mounted in rubber to avoid contact with everything else, thus isolating.
  It looks to me by the photo anyways , that nothing is isolated and just laying in a metal tray, is the tray isolated?Are all these items isolated from each other as they would be in original stock positions?
  Could any of your hot wires be grounding on the frame? or in the bars? How long did you run the starter?  do these lines get hot and blow fuses when the starter hasn't been activated? Whats left of your ignition sw? How much madness is in the bucket? Look for archs melted plastic coating on or from wires,black spots grey spots anything that would suggest possible failure, that's what you want to check.    Good luck, I'd be interested in your findings.

[zenocchio]

Usually regulator, On the 500/550 the entire electric panel has been isolated from the frame. Any of these items mounted in isolating rubber mounts with metal tube in the rubber that extends and separates the washer and mounting bolt from  from the electrical unit , usually  fastened by 6,mm thread , 10mm head bolts.
 I am also under the belief that blinker relay and solenoid are also hung / mounted in rubber to avoid contact with everything else, thus isolating.
  It looks to me by the photo anyways , that nothing is isolated and just laying in a metal tray, is the tray isolated?Are all these items isolated from each other as they would be in original stock positions?
  Could any of your hot wires be grounding on the frame? or in the bars? How long did you run the starter?  do these lines get hot and blow fuses when the starter hasn't been activated? Whats left of your ignition sw? How much madness is in the bucket? Look for archs melted plastic coating on or from wires,black spots grey spots anything that would suggest possible failure, that's what you want to check.    Good luck, I'd be interested in your findings.

Thanks mate!
The tray is isolated from the frame, but the parts are not between themselves.

I will try to sort it out this weekend and let you know.

In the meanwhile the clutch rod that I got from eBay arrived. This was originally on a 450 k1-k7 and it  is the same as mine at least for a k1 cb500. Check the pics:

[zenocchio]

I overhaul the clutch this weekend but I haven't been able to have it working.

I installed the new rod and adjuster the clutch lifter at the best but when the clutch pressed it does not disengage. I did not start the bike but once in gear and the clutch pressed the back wheel does not spin freely.
The following pictures show the clutch engaged and disengaged.

n




I doubt that the problem is the shaved adjuster clutch but I might be wrong.

[rb550four]

Get another actuator  from Ebay or someplace and cross it off the list of possible problem. Also , new clutch discs ? Have you soaked them in motor oil before assembly? If you haven't, you will want to do that before you close it up.

[zenocchio]

I'm still investigating the cause of the oil leak from the left case. I think I will have to replace the o ring on the oil plug at the bottom of the alternator.
Looking at the fiche it seems that the oil plug area was hacked.
Weird.

[zenocchio]

I changed the O-Ring of the oil plug, now the plug is much tighter so I believe that will fix the leak.

I got a new clutch adjuster for the dealer for 20$, less than anything on ebay! I havent test the clutch yet but I will report back once I will start the bike again.

I had "fixed" the short circuit, I got a new wiring harness and made sure that the components in the tray were properly isolated. everything worked flawless, until I hit the electric starter a couple of times while working at the handlebar. since then the fuses kept blowing. AGAIN!
I have an aftermarket switch that has starter, horn and blinkers, I will try to troubleshoot that first.

I dont have the spark plugs in, and the ignition coil are wired. Is it possible that "charged coil" can cause to blow the fuse?

I also got the master cylinder kit, I will rebuild it this weekend, now I am in the process of priming and painting the brake components.
I will post pics of the gas tank soon, I decided to go with two colour tone, british green and gold.

[rb550four]

That short that didn't start happening until you started working by the handlebars.... Sounds like a dead short on the button  (did someone solder a blob  to make a repair?perhaps that is it.)or an open wire  in the bars.
Or have you closely checked the starter wire for breaks or pinches particularly in the case  entering/through/and exiting the chain and sprocket area?could there be some insulation missing to cause a short? Anything look black or white sparked along the way in there? Are there and rub damages to same wire where it could have come in constant contact with the battery box? Did you switch this wire when you changed over to the new harness?Have you extended it ? Soldered it? Sealed and taped it in a wire loom?
If you were to put a remote starer button or switch and bypass the handle bar button, does it still blow fuses? or does it all operate properly?