Author Topic: Heated vest on CB550- can the bike handle it (Read 6493 times)

Mooshie · « **on:** February 04, 2013, 08:29:21 PM »

I looked on other threads in a search and did not get a clear answer. I was just given a heated jacket liner (that will also take heated gloves which I think I will love) but want to make certain it will not drain my battery. If I used the best it would be on long distance rides (if that means anything).

From reading the literature it seems that the gloves will draw 24W and the jacket liner a whopping 72W. It is a Tourmaster Synergy 2.0 jacket liner.

I have a feeling Dash cannot handle that...what are your thoughts?

MCRider · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2013, 08:40:06 PM »

That's quite a bit. But i used a 35W vest on my 305 Super Hawk, 300cc GS300L, My Hawk 650, and others with no problem. I'd use some wind deflectors on the hands and pitch the gloves. My wife had the gloves and hated them. Too bulky. With the deflectors, you can wear medium weight gloves into the lower temps. Killing the wind chill is the key.
http://www.classiccruiser.com/National-Cycle/Hand-Deflectors-OUT-IN-FRONT/523466/?gclid=CO7E78qrnrUCFQY5nAodpnwAwQ

Even a small windshield will also help.

Then just remember that even though the liner is rated 72W, you will seldom if ever turn it up that high unless you just want to be toast. You'll run it at less than half that. And turn it way down when you're going slow. If you don't you will once again become toast. With no wind chill blast the heat builds quickly.

You will likely never find anyone who will tell you based on the math that you can do it. I can tell you based on personal experience you can. You just have to do what comes naturally. Turn it down when you're going slow. Wear a real good insulated windbreaker as wind chill robs the heat. You won't need much else.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2013, 11:53:18 PM »

Pull your headlight fuse

TwoTired · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2013, 02:35:05 AM »

The stock Cb550 Alternator is rated for 150 watts at 5000 RPM. It derates on a curve down to idle RPM to about 40-50 Watts. However, that's a minimum specification, some alternators may make a bit more than that.

The stock bike electricals draw about 120 Watts whenever key switch and lighting are on. (I don't know what electrical mods have been done to your bike.)
Anyway, normally the battery will drain some at idle and 30 Watts will be available to recharge the battery a 5000 rpm.

If you add electrical load to the bike above that, the battery can't recharge and will continue to drain.

I'd say 72 watts is hopeless unless you turn off your 40 watt headlight. Then in cruise your battery may not drain, but probably won't recharge, either.

Adding a 24 watt load is probably ok if you run with no headlight on at cruise RPM. But, be aware that at idle RPM, your battery will run down faster with the extra load and take longer to recharge when the Rs are up.

Another variable is the condition of your electrical system. If all the switch contacts, connectors, and fuse terminal remain low loss on the bike, all the power made by the alternator is usable. But, if the switches, connectors, etc. have aged and added resistance to the system, that resistance creates lost power in heat generation at the resistance. It is equivalent to losing 10-20 watts of alternator output in some cases as it is lost to contact/connector heating.

The real answer can only come if the performance of YOUR bike's electrical system is measured.

I never tried heated gloves or vest on my 550s. But, commuting 50 minutes in 30-40 degree weather had me get snow, wind breaking over pants, thick socks w/12" boots, a leather bomber jacket with fleece liner, insulated Bates gauntlet gloves, and a neck scarf. This helped a lot to endure the experience. But, for the next year I got a Vetter fairing, and that made a huge difference. 10 years later, I kicked myself for not putting on the lowers at the same time, as the heat off the cooling fins could be directed right on your legs. A motorcycle with a heater is really nice to have in cold weather, and using the heat off the motor just makes so much sense to me, rather than just discard that heat.

Cheers,

Gordon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2013, 07:59:16 AM »

Just use the gloves and not the vest, IMO. I rode in Denver Winters, down into the single digits sometimes, with the help of heated hand grips and a medium size windscreen. The hands/fingers are really the only problem in cold temps because you can't bundle them up as thickly as you can the rest of your body. Plus, the heat from the grips/gloves will ciruculate through the rest of your body helping keep the rest of you warm. My nose did go numb a lot, though. Never did figure out a good solution for that. Balaclavas just caused the face shield to fog up.

Mo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2013, 08:17:05 AM »

How desperate are you?! You could just mount this baby to your fender and drive around worry free all day!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=lp_3236381_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360080917&sr=1-3

Just kidding though...

andy750 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2013, 08:50:02 AM »

I cant really answer your question but my guess is (based on other rides I know experiences with heated gear on a CB750) you will have borderline juice for the gloves/jacket.

I started off with heated gloves and thought they were great. Then a year later I got the jacket liner (both Gerbing) and it was heaven. No more bulky clothing that means you can last for about 1 hr in the sub-zero cold. You can ride for many hours with heated gloves/jacket liner and get off the bike refreshed and ready to go without the need for a lengthy thaw of your fingers or core. This is all on the VStrom though (and it has a fairing).

On my unfaired CB750K4, I installed heated grips on Gordons recommendation and while they help (I also have Barkbusters to act as wind deflectors) they are nothing like having a heated jacket liner to keep your core warm. Keeping the core warm is the best way to keep the rest of you warm. Grips on their own just cant do that as effectively as a liner. Of course this all depends on your own personal thermoregulation and whether you have a fairing or not. I just installed a fairing on the K4 and am sure this will help a lot (if it works for someone as tall as me).

Good luck!
Andy

74750k4 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2013, 08:59:48 AM »

Certainly a case for upgrading the electrical. I started with two 12 ga. wires fused, off the battery, one leading to an ignition relay, and the other directly up to two headlight relays in the nest. One for high beam, the other for low. Upgraded the headlight socket to porcelain as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-H4-9003-Ceramic-Wire-Wiring-Harness-Extension-Socket-Connector-Kit-Headlight-/160969613125?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257a895f45&vxp=mtr

That same scenario as a minimum, should help with heated accessories. With an upraded charging system I am able to run an off-road 80/90 watt halogen bulb on my 750. The bulbs don't last long though, as they get a constant 14 volts on them. No charging issues, no burning switches, or melting wires/connectors.

bollingball · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2013, 10:34:32 AM »

Quote from: malkaysi on February 05, 2013, 08:17:05 AM

How desperate are you?! You could just mount this baby to your fender and drive around worry free all day!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=lp_3236381_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360080917&sr=1-3

Just kidding though...

Holy Cow

Lets see she needs 196 watts
http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=lp_3236381_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360080917&sr=1-3&tag=vglnk-c1583-20
That add says 1 watt each. I think we need a trailer.
nk

Mooshie · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:29:16 PM »

Quote from: malkaysi on February 05, 2013, 08:17:05 AM

How desperate are you?! You could just mount this baby to your fender and drive around worry free all day!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=lp_3236381_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360080917&sr=1-3

Just kidding though...

That's funny. 196 watts indeed..I will be pushing Dash into British Columbia! I got this literally as a gift (because I made some off handed comments about sissy's use heated vests and I am a purist in my leathers). Then I got to thinking I'm not getting any younger and being warm does have its advantages...

But it would seem it is not going to be a good idea on my 550. I was really more interested in the idea of using it for heated gloves since that is where I feel the cold the most. My core is pretty well insulated with layers (got that one down fairly well), but the tips of my fingers now that is another issue all together.

Bankerdanny · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:34:18 PM »

You can free up some juice by switching the running and instrument lights to LED's. I will 2nd some of the other comments that the best thing you can do to make cold weather riding better is install a small windscreen to divert the air around your torso.

I used one on my 550 and it made a big difference.

The Goldwing has a Vetter on it and it would have to be much colder than I am willing to ride in before I would need more than an insulated jacket and good sweater.

I don't know the laws where you live, but in Illinois headlight on is mandatory, so turning it off to use the power elsewhere just isn't an option.

You might be able to compromise. Run the outlet for the vest though a switch so you can turn on the vest to warm up, then turn it off to allow the battery to top off.

MCRider · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:40:54 PM »

I'll repeat the hand guards are the ticket to warm, unencumbered hands, if you're trying to conserve energy. Its the windchill on the knuckles that kills the hands. Those guards in the link mount to the mirror post, are on and off in minutes. I switch them bike to bike, even used them on the FJR.

You be surprised. Then get a lower draw vest, thougjh I think you can run the high draw you have, just don't turn it up so much. It should have a rheostat or some form of temptroller, to allow you to throttle the energy draw.

I have MANY miles with this setup. No shame. Shameful to not have electrics. In the SportTouring world, and snowmobile world everyone has them, wouldn't go without. It can even be a safety issue. Fighting the cold is very fatiguing.

Rgconner · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:13:23 PM »

With LEDs, and a Phillips Eco bulb, I can run the jacket at medium, no lights, and low around town or medium on the freeway.

The controllers run in cycles, so a low setting is on full blast for 10 out of 40 seconds.

The other thought for saving juice is a HID headlight system.

MCRider · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Rgconner on February 05, 2013, 01:13:23 PM

With LEDs, and a Phillips Eco bulb, I can run the jacket at medium, no lights, and low around town or medium on the freeway.

The controllers run in cycles, so a low setting is on full blast for 10 out of 40 seconds.

The other thought for saving juice is a HID headlight system.

There are temp trollers that are true rheostats, steady power draw. but they are more expensaive. Either way you should get the same effect when turned down. Power to heat alternates with charge to battery.

Mine was Widder old style, thermostat. Cycled on and off.

brooze72 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Mooshie on February 05, 2013, 12:29:16 PM

Quote from: malkaysi on February 05, 2013, 08:17:05 AM
How desperate are you?! You could just mount this baby to your fender and drive around worry free all day!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=lp_3236381_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360080917&sr=1-3

Just kidding though...

That's funny. 196 watts indeed..I will be pushing Dash into British Columbia! I got this literally as a gift (because I made some off handed comments about sissy's use heated vests and I am a purist in my leathers). Then I got to thinking I'm not getting any younger and being warm does have its advantages...
But it would seem it is not going to be a good idea on my 550. I was really more interested in the idea of using it for heated gloves since that is where I feel the cold the most. My core is pretty well insulated with layers (got that one down fairly well), but the tips of my fingers now that is another issue all together.

If you want a cheap solution for hands, try what skiers use on bad days, mitts with those little chemical warmer pouches, they are good for 3~4 hours. I also have a pair of battery heated ones, more bulky & expensive tho.
Most mitts are a nylon material, not great at high speeds, so I would go with the hand guards too.

TwoTired · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:48:12 PM »

I think it is important to note that the 750s have a 210 watt (min) alternator, rather than the 150 watt output of the 550.
Both generally consume the same power to run the bikes in cruise. But, the 750 has a 60 watt margin over the 550's 30 watt. This is why it is so marginal/detrimental running 3 ohm coils and putting brighter higher watt headlights on the 550. More electrical load isn't really suitable for the 550 unless you are running it constantly at 5000 RPM.

Must be that the 750 takes an enormous amount of power to e start over the 550, and the bigger battery needs more power to recharge.

Perhaps we can start calling the 750 a "hog"? /jk

scottly · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2013, 07:02:43 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 05, 2013, 02:35:05 AM

The stock bike electricals draw about 120 Watts whenever key switch and lighting are on.

What are the different loads that add up to 120 watts, other than the 40 Watt headlight? Seems to me with LED signal/running and brake/taillights, the total draw would be less than 75 Watts, leaving another 75 Watts for heating gear while cruising at highway speeds, once the battery has recharged. If a toggle switch were mounted on the handlebars, the heat could be turned on and off as required, and allow the battery to stay charged.

TwoTired · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2013, 11:29:38 PM »

At some point in the last 20 years, I actually inserted an ammeter into the system and measured a 10 amp draw though the main fuse just by turning on the key a light switches.

Stock CB 500/550 electrical budget.
Alternator output - About 40-50 Watts at 1000 RPM, 110 watts at 2000 RPM , 150 watts peak @ 5000 RPM

50 W -High beam   Headlight
3.4 W -High beam indicator
8W    -tail light
27W    -Stop light
16 W - 8 W x 2 Front run lights
13.6W - 3.4 W X 4 Instrument lights
49.4W -23 W X2 turn signals plus 3.4 w indicator
28.8 W - maximum for ignition (when points closed, one at a time)
33.4 W – Energized field coil.

229.6 W -total maximum drawn from battery

600W -Starting motor

--- Minimum lighting ---
40 W -low beam Headlight
8W    -tail light
16W -8W   x 2 Front run lights
13.6W - (3.4W X 4 Instrument lights)
15W - ignition estimate (points aren’t always closed)
33.4 W energized field coil

126 W -total (normal electrical draw from battery @ idle RPM)

Wattage calculations were made using a 12.8V system voltage basis, as all the bulb ratings are specified by Mfg. @ 12.8V.

In real life and with resistive loads, as the battery voltage falls, the current and wattage draw diminishes, and bulb brightness dims, as well.

Cheers,

grasscutter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2013, 05:50:31 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 05, 2013, 02:35:05 AM

But, for the next year I got a Vetter fairing, and that made a huge difference. 10 years later, I kicked myself for not putting on the lowers at the same time, as the heat off the cooling fins could be directed right on your legs. A motorcycle with a heater is really nice to have in cold weather, and using the heat off the motor just makes so much sense to me, rather than just discard that heat.

Cheers,

Coming from an avid snowmobile rider, you might look @ some of the gear we use. Snowmobile riders ride in way worse conditions and temps than you will ride in! Or shop a good outdoor store. Something that caters to the high end mountaineer crowd. They have top of the line stuff. If it can handle 100+ MPH winds, and sub-zero temps on the mountain....it'll handle your road trip.

Didn't notice if anyone mentioned hand guards.

Like TT mentioned about putting a Vetter on... its all about diverting the wind.

I also do a lot of touring, and many times find myself on sub freezing days, with lots of miles to cover. Spent $$ on a good pair of leather, lined, gauntlet gloves. Probably one of my single best investments. (put on a pair of latex gloves underneath, when it gets down to 0, and you'll still be fine).

MCRider · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2013, 05:56:53 AM »

Quote from: grasscutter on February 06, 2013, 05:50:31 AM

Quote from: TwoTired on February 05, 2013, 02:35:05 AM
But, for the next year I got a Vetter fairing, and that made a huge difference. 10 years later, I kicked myself for not putting on the lowers at the same time, as the heat off the cooling fins could be directed right on your legs. A motorcycle with a heater is really nice to have in cold weather, and using the heat off the motor just makes so much sense to me, rather than just discard that heat.

Cheers,

Coming from an avid snowmobile rider, you might look @ some of the gear we use. Snowmobile riders ride in way worse conditions and temps than you will ride in! Or shop a good outdoor store. Something that caters to the high end mountaineer crowd. They have top of the line stuff. If it can handle 100+ MPH winds, and sub-zero temps on the mountain....it'll handle your road trip.

Didn't notice if anyone mentioned hand guards.

Like TT mentioned about putting a Vetter on... its all about diverting the wind.

I also do a lot of touring, and many times find myself on sub freezing days, with lots of miles to cover. Spent $$ on a good pair of leather, lined, gauntlet gloves. Probably one of my single best investments. (put on a pair of latex gloves underneath, when it gets down to 0, and you'll still be fine).

I suggested hand guards in reply #1 and again in #11. Highly recommended over electric gloves, especially when power is limited. Preserve power for the electric vest.

grasscutter · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2013, 06:49:51 AM »

MCRider: Wow. Missed that! ..note to self.... Do not scan posts too quickly before morning coffee!

Good to see someone else thinking along the same lines. Hand guards are a cheap simple solution for sure. I'm partial to the curved ones. They do protect waaaay better.

MCRider · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2013, 06:53:41 AM »

No prob. The ones you show are definitely better than mine. But any shield is better than none.

andy750 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2013, 10:00:19 AM »

I also mentioned hand guards in my post

They are ok at deflecting the wind but need to be paired with heated gloves or grips to keep your hands warm. I have also used Hippo Hands (second pic) and they are also good but not enough to keep your hands warm without heated hear of some sort. Anything below 32F and your hands will get cold whatever the glove - I rode 1200 miles in 2 days in temps 28-36F with no heated gear - yes it can be done and yes I was well layered but it was fatiguing. With heated gear would have been much easier.

See orange K4 in the pic

Hippo Hands

cheers
Andy

strynboen · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2013, 10:17:29 AM »

i will put this on and ...go...vest

TwoTired · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2013, 10:33:53 AM »

Quote from: andy750 on February 06, 2013, 10:00:19 AM

yes it can be done and yes I was well layered but it was fatiguing.

That was the factor which was the surprising, unanticipated thing about the Windjammer, the lack of fatigue in all weather conditions. Wind chill certainly adds to numbing cold feel. But, the lack of constant pressure on your chest and fighting the wind buffet does wear on one.

I remember the mental struggles about putting a big fairing on a "small" 550. Worried about the weight, the look, the handling loss, etc. But, as has been mentioned, if your body core is kept warm, it will keep the extremities warm as well, which I expect, is what a heated vest would do.

Cheers,

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Author Topic: Heated vest on CB550- can the bike handle it (Read 6493 times)

bollingball