Topic: A disappointing article

[azuredesign]

I read this article in the NY Times this morning, and felt strongly enough about its naive position in not considering  that there are a significant number of older riders who are either returning after a prolonged period or are new to the sport, to write a response in the comments section.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/aging-easy-riders-beware/?ref=global-home

 I am fairly certain that those of us who consider themselves at the frontier between middle and old age have pondered how long they will keep riding, and what they can do to prolong the experience. Personally, I do ride more slowly and cautiously than I used to, and I am planning on moving to smaller, lighter displacement bikes as I find it more difficult to support the bulk of a +1000cc bike.

Do you feel similarly to my reaction? It might be interesting and educational to discuss strategies for riding as old buzzards?

[70CB750]

I wonder how many of them are midlife crises victims - doing what they always wanted and never had the time/money/opportunity.

[demon78]

A couple of things, yes, it's worse when you are older, it hurts more, but in some respects you compensate, pick your times and roads do I ride as much as I used to, ride as far, as fast, no, now it's to try and enjoy the experience and a form of therapy I notice that over the winter I get tottery and shaky but when I get on the bike things snap into place no more wobbles, no worries about balance, no worries about mental acuteness, I start seeing things as a series of angles and closing rates and after a few rides I get sharper, now this doesn't mean I'm going to Mossport and challenge Brent Waller for fastest lap, it means take my time smell the flowers and trees, look at birds with and without mini skirts, enjoy the sunlight, on that quiet road pick up on that s-bend try it both ways and see if I can pare a little time off or do a more perfect line will I quit, maybe, but I've ridden since 1959 and it maybe what I need to keep me going until monobloc.
Bill the demon.

[72 yellow]

And how many of those crashes were caused by car drivers texting, while balancing a latte.  Experience does help as those of us who survived being stupid while young, tend to want to hang on to life as long as possible.  I slowed down and I prefer to putt and enjoy the ride.  I have heard of several guys my age (63) buying for the first time a large displacement bike, only to crash it.  One dumped his brand new Harley right in the dealership parking lot.  Most of the guys I know started riding in the 60's and started with a smaller bike and worked our way up.  In today's traffic the learning curve can be very steep.

[brooze72]

I thought the article was a little too BS/fluffy as well.  There are so many factors that can affect statistics & then comparing them to what?  10 years ago, 20? As was pointed out, traffic patterns, density, driver distraction, all practically change yearly it seems.  I would guess training & experience could cover a lot of it.  I've been thinking of signing up for a refresher course this year, can't hurt as much as a fall.

PS Bill & Yellow, don't stop riding, I'm right behind you guys.

[dave500]

i guess a lot of older first time riders and a few older returning ones choose the wrong bike for a start?

[brooze72]

Maybe, but what is the right size bike?  Midsize used to be 350~500 & now it's more like 1000~1100?  You're probably like most of us & learned on a 50cc or 100cc & moved up, do they do that anymore?  Older newby riders would probably be embarassed to ride a 100cc on the road nowadays. If they can afford the big fancy stuff with 100+HP, that's what they will go for.

[demon78]

Yeah Dave Jesus h Why a big bike to start? Of course around here try and find a small bike I refuse to spend too much on a small machine, 3500 to 5 grand for a small bike that's not reasonable, particularly when it's only usable 6-7 months of the year, the bike shops look at you like you are senile if you want some thing smaller than a 750 and I don't know if I want to kick 5-600 lbs off me if I drop it.
Bill the demon.

[dave500]

theyll choose a too fast and light sports bike or a too heavy and un gainly cruiser?

[azuredesign]

I guess part of my thinking is that the market has not yet started to reflect the needs of boomer riders who want to continue as they age. I would not be surprised to see some innovative mid-displacement(350-650) bikes appearing in the future.

I dont know the statistics related to how far Joe Blow rides on a given day, but I am pretty sure that long distance touring is the small minority, and under 100 miles a day, and probably under 50 miles a day is the norm. Does one really need a Concours for that distance? I am not even going to consider domestic products as they are too unwieldy at the best of times. Personally, I have at least as much fun on a 250 or 350 on back roads as I do with a big bike, heck it reminds me of when I started on a little bike.

[Bluegreen]

I'm not sure a lot of you read the article.

From what I gathered, and I could be wrong, was the main point of the article was that if you are 60+ and are in an accident serious enough to require medical attention you are three times more likely to end up in a hospital than somebody in their 20's. Makes sense, bones and muscle are not going to be the same 40 years down the road.

I don't think they were concentrating on frequency of crashes among the different age groups so much. Although they were saying those were on the rise as well, possibly for reasons explained above. Mid lifers, bikes to big etc.

[BLUE71TURBO]

I wonder how many of them are midlife crises victims - doing what they always wanted and never had the time/money/opportunity.

                       You hit the nail on the head !  Alot of these riders are older and buy Harleys.  A very heavy bike.  You see alot these people selling these midlife crisis bikes at a very low mileage because of close calls with cars or not being able to support the weight after riding for awhile.  I know of 4 people, 3 men and 1 woman that fit into this catagory.   

[Raef]

I'm 44 and i have been on a bike most of those years, what the article says makes since, I break much easier than I used too and i dint heal nearly as fast. we have better insurance, i can more readily afford to miss a day or two of work so it only makes since to take better care of myself. I have been a bricklayer for a lot of years and I used the work through injuries all the time because if your not at work you are replaced, not so much anymore

[Raef]

Wife just informed me I won't be 44 till April, I sure feel older than that

[BobbyR]

Do you feel similarly to my reaction? It might be interesting and educational to discuss strategies for riding as old buzzards?

When you and I met up in West Point that night you will notice I drove. Years ago I would have ridden, but I was tired. The Deer and the twisties through the Mountains did not seem like a great idea. 

I know I don't have the reflexes I did in my 20's, and kidding yourself is a quick way to the Cemetery.

Having said that, I still have excellent vision and I use it. I ride less aggressively and give myself more reaction time than I used to. I am more armored up than I used to be.

Data out of a study in Michigan was published years ago by their DOT with the same conslusion with one important difference. Michigan found the older riders had fewer accidents than the younger groups. The main difference was the older riders seemed to be more prone to serious injury. As you get older you don't heal as quickly.

Every season, I go out for the first ride, get my feel for the bike back. The day I do not get the feel back, I will park it.

[azuredesign]

Yes, that is one point that the article makes, agreed it is a rather obvious point. What I found disappointing is that the article also states that older riders are involved in accidents more frequently. I do not feel it is educational to make this statement without looking at who older riders are. What is their experience, are they on 2 or 3 wheels, what is the displacement and type of bike that is being used at the time of the accident, I am sure there are many more applicable factors.
Older car drivers are now being judged as to whether they can maintain their right to drive. Will this also come to pass with bikers?  Insurance companies are also more likely to boost our rates based on ill formed information such as this article. These are problems that should be addressed with scientific data, not biased and ill informed articles, such as this one.

I'm not sure a lot of you read the article.

From what I gathered, and I could be wrong, was the main point of the article was that if you are 60+ and are in an accident serious enough to require medical attention you are three times more likely to end up in a hospital than somebody in their 20's. Makes sense, bones and muscle are not going to be the same 40 years down the road.

I don't think they were concentrating on frequency of crashes among the different age groups so much. Although they were saying those were on the rise as well, possibly for reasons explained above. Mid lifers, bikes to big etc.

[azuredesign]

Bob, I agree with you 100%. And it was a pleasure to hang out with you in that bar in September, I dont care how you got there, thanks for coming up!!

I am amending the above to include that your decision to drive rather than ride based on you personal assessment of yourself in doing one or the other is one of the factors that make us, as an older more experienced group of rider, a better risk than is indicated by simply our age. I do believe ones ability to make good rational decisions also increases with age to a point, but I have no data to substantiate this.

Do you feel similarly to my reaction? It might be interesting and educational to discuss strategies for riding as old buzzards?

When you and I met up in West Point that night you will notice I drove. Years ago I would have ridden, but I was tired. The Deer and the twisties through the Mountains did not seem like a great idea. 

I know I don't have the reflexes I did in my 20's, and kidding yourself is a quick way to the Cemetery.

Having said that, I still have excellent vision and I use it. I ride less aggressively and give myself more reaction time than I used to. I am more armored up than I used to be.

Data out of a study in Michigan was published years ago by their DOT with the same conslusion with one important difference. Michigan found the older riders had fewer accidents than the younger groups. The main difference was the older riders seemed to be more prone to serious injury. As you get older you don't heal as quickly.

Every season, I go out for the first ride, get my feel for the bike back. The day I do not get the feel back, I will park it.

[BobbyR]

It was my pleasure meeting you guys. I am a lone Wolf around here. I am sure you noticed it was Harley and crotch rocket land.

[70CB750]

I wonder how many of them are midlife crises victims - doing what they always wanted and never had the time/money/opportunity.

                       You hit the nail on the head !  Alot of these riders are older and buy Harleys.  A very heavy bike.  You see alot these people selling these midlife crisis bikes at a very low mileage because of close calls with cars or not being able to support the weight after riding for awhile.  I know of 4 people, 3 men and 1 woman that fit into this catagory.   

I know a guy - 60 or so. Had a corvette, got a Harley and flew off a twistie on Skyline drive. Sold the Harley afteg he got out of the hospital.

[72 yellow]

Yes, that is one point that the article makes, agreed it is a rather obvious point. What I found disappointing is that the article also states that older riders are involved in accidents more frequently. I do not feel it is educational to make this statement without looking at who older riders are. What is their experience, are they on 2 or 3 wheels, what is the displacement and type of bike that is being used at the time of the accident, I am sure there are many more applicable factors.
Older car drivers are now being judged as to whether they can maintain their right to drive. Will this also come to pass with bikers?  Insurance companies are also more likely to boost our rates based on ill formed information such as this article. These are problems that should be addressed with scientific data, not biased and ill informed articles, such as this one.

I'm not sure a lot of you read the article.

From what I gathered, and I could be wrong, was the main point of the article was that if you are 60+ and are in an accident serious enough to require medical attention you are three times more likely to end up in a hospital than somebody in their 20's. Makes sense, bones and muscle are not going to be the same 40 years down the road.

I don't think they were concentrating on frequency of crashes among the different age groups so much. Although they were saying those were on the rise as well, possibly for reasons explained above. Mid lifers, bikes to big etc.

As with any survey, the person who wrote it can make the figures agree with the point they are trying to make.

[Raef]

I'm 44 and i have been on a bike most of those years, what the article says makes since, I break much easier than I used too and i dint heal nearly as fast. we have better insurance, i can more readily afford to miss a day or two of work so it only makes since to take better care of myself. I have been a bricklayer for a lot of years and I used the work through injuries all the time because if your not at work you are replaced, not so much anymore

what i was getting at is, I am sure many of the younger people involved in accedents refuse treatment and hobble on their way

[Kevin D]

Abstract
Objective To examine differences across age groups in patterns of injuries sustained from motorcycle crashes.

Methods Cross-sectional data from the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System-All Injury Program were used to assess emergency department-treated injuries resulting from motorcycle crashes in the USA from 2001 to 2008. Trends in injury frequency, and types and severity of injuries sustained among those aged 20–39 years, 40–59 years, and 60+ years were compared.

Results An estimated 65 660 patients 60 years and older, 466 125 patients aged 40–59 years and 921 229 patients aged 20–39 years were treated in US emergency rooms for injuries sustained in motorcycle crashes from 2001 to 2008. The number of injuries increased in all groups from 2001 to 2008, with the greatest rate of increase occurring in the oldest age group. Older adults had a threefold increased rate of hospitalisation (OR=3.05; 95% CI 2.58 to 3.59) compared with younger adults. Middle age adults had a nearly twofold increased odds of hospitalisation (OR=1.89; 95% CI 1.70 to 2.11; p<0.0001) compared with younger adults. Analysis of injury severity showed a similar pattern with both older adults (OR=2.46; 95% CI 2.02 to 3.01) and middle age adults (OR=1.66, 95% CI 1.52 to 1.82) having significantly increased odds of severe injury compared with younger adults.

Conclusions Older adults involved in motorcycle crashes are prone to more severe injuries than younger adults. The increased number of older adults riding motorcycles should put further focus on risk of injury to this population.

[Kevin D]

My first observation:
60+ age group = 65660 accidents requiring em room
40-59               = 466125 accidents           "
20-39               = 921229 accidents           "

[BeSeeingYou]

Just ride.  Who gives a sh!it about what some newspaper article says and thinks.  If you get to the point where you don't feel comfortable anymore ...then don't ride.  No shame in that, we all have to give up certain activities at some point.  Been riding since I was 21....about 34 years now...don't plan on giving it up anytime soon.  Don't care about anybody's statistics...only how I feel about it.

[754]

Ride as much as you can, and nobody will call you a pussy when you finally go to electric start when you are 60 or maybe 70ish..

 But windshields,..pretty sure them are for girls...